The purpose of this thread is to try to gather in one place all the changes to the names of regions. If you think you have special insight into what a place should probably be named (probably because you live there, and like me the first thing you did when you saw the map was to check out every place you ever lived to see how accurate it was), please post a suggestion to this thread (with an absulte minimum of discussion) in the following format:
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State:
File Name:
Old Name:
New Name:
Reason for change:
Source for cross-checking:
Remarks:
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STATE: Please spell out the name of the State: there are many non-Americans here who do not work for the US Postal Service.
FILE NAME: File Name refers to the name that contains the file that tells the program what region name to display when you pass the mouse pointer over it. This can be found by looking in ACW/GameData/Regions.
OLD NAME: If you open the file whose name you don't like with a text editor (Wordpad or Notepad), you'll see a line of text towards the top of the list that gives the name you want to change. This is where you write down what it is.
NEW NAME: This is where you record what you think it should be.
REASON FOR CHANGE: This is where you record why you think it should be changed.
SOURCE FOR CROSS-CHECKING: We shouldn't have to take your word for it. There are wiki's with the county names of all the states, and some of them have pretty detailed histories of when the counties merged, cloned, or whatever. If you give a link to the relevant wiki, a confused Frenchman won't have to wonder what you're smoking.
REMARKS: This section is best left blank, because we really don't want this thread being turned into a discussion thread. But sometimes it might be a good idea to indicate something like how confidant you are that your proposed change is right. But usually not.
Please note that the idea here is to reconstruct mid-19th century regional names -- so it would be a really bad idea to suggest renaming a region Six Flags because you live there and that's what they call it now.
Like swallowing this is all much easier to do than to describe, so I'll give a few examples. One last request -- if you make multiple renaming suggestions in one post, please make sure that all your suggestions are in the same state (otherwise please use two posts). Remember: someone is going to have to go through all this stuff and check it out, so please make it as easy on them as possible.
Connecticut
State: Connecticut
File Name: 4Westchester, CT
Old Name: Westchester, CT
New Name: Fairfield, CT
Reason: Westchester is in NY, area in CT shown on map is actually Fairfield county.
Source for cross-checking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...in_Connecticut
=================================================
State: Connecticut
File Name: 3Berkshire, CT
Old Name: Berkshire, CT
New Name: Litchfield, CT
Reason: Area shown on map in CT is Litchfield county, and the Berkshires are somewhere completely different.
Source for cross-checking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...in_Connecticut
File Name: 4Westchester, CT
Old Name: Westchester, CT
New Name: Fairfield, CT
Reason: Westchester is in NY, area in CT shown on map is actually Fairfield county.
Source for cross-checking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...in_Connecticut
=================================================
State: Connecticut
File Name: 3Berkshire, CT
Old Name: Berkshire, CT
New Name: Litchfield, CT
Reason: Area shown on map in CT is Litchfield county, and the Berkshires are somewhere completely different.
Source for cross-checking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...in_Connecticut
New York
State: New York
File Name: 5New York, NY
Old Name: New York, NY
New Name: Westchester, NY
Reason: The landmass north of New York City that you can move the cursor over is actually occupied by Westchester County (where I live). New York City still appears as New York City. .
Source for cross-checking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es_in_New_York
Remarks: New York City, Westchester looks a little odd. It might be better if Yonkers and White Plains were part of New York rather than having New York being part of Westchester. So maybe this change shouldn't be made.
File Name: 5New York, NY
Old Name: New York, NY
New Name: Westchester, NY
Reason: The landmass north of New York City that you can move the cursor over is actually occupied by Westchester County (where I live). New York City still appears as New York City. .
Source for cross-checking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es_in_New_York
Remarks: New York City, Westchester looks a little odd. It might be better if Yonkers and White Plains were part of New York rather than having New York being part of Westchester. So maybe this change shouldn't be made.
Upstate/Western New York
State: New York
File Name: 22Cayuga,NY
Old Name: Cayuga, NY
New Name: Seneca, NY
Reason for change: Seneca county is the one between the two major Finger Lakes
Source for cross-checking:
http://www.nysegov.com/map-NY.cfm?countyName=seneca
Remarks:
=========================================================
State: New York
File Name: 27Seneca,NY
Old Name: Seneca, NY
New Name: Yates, NY
Reason for change: Penn Yan is in Yates. Need to free up Seneca to correct Cayuga!
Source for cross-checking:
http://www.nysegov.com/map-NY.cfm?countyName=yates
Remarks: Must rename 22 Cayuga before doing this.
=========================================================
State: New York
File Name: 35Chemung,NY
Old Name: Chemung, NY
New Name: Chautaqua, NY
Reason for change: Chemung is nowhere near that part of NY. It's actually part of Cayuga, NY (to be renamed Seneca, NY)
Source for cross-checking:
http://www.nysegov.com/map-NY.cfm?countyName=chautauqua
Remarks:
=========================================================
Overall reference for NY counties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_New_York
File Name: 22Cayuga,NY
Old Name: Cayuga, NY
New Name: Seneca, NY
Reason for change: Seneca county is the one between the two major Finger Lakes
Source for cross-checking:
http://www.nysegov.com/map-NY.cfm?countyName=seneca
Remarks:
=========================================================
State: New York
File Name: 27Seneca,NY
Old Name: Seneca, NY
New Name: Yates, NY
Reason for change: Penn Yan is in Yates. Need to free up Seneca to correct Cayuga!
Source for cross-checking:
http://www.nysegov.com/map-NY.cfm?countyName=yates
Remarks: Must rename 22 Cayuga before doing this.
=========================================================
State: New York
File Name: 35Chemung,NY
Old Name: Chemung, NY
New Name: Chautaqua, NY
Reason for change: Chemung is nowhere near that part of NY. It's actually part of Cayuga, NY (to be renamed Seneca, NY)
Source for cross-checking:
http://www.nysegov.com/map-NY.cfm?countyName=chautauqua
Remarks:
=========================================================
Overall reference for NY counties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_New_York
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as.cities.burn
- Conscript
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State:Louisiana
File Name: 737Lisbon, LA.rgn
Old Name: Lisbon, LA
New Name: Charleston, LA
Reason for change: Charleston (Southwest, LA) is the town. Lisbon was not the parish seat by the time of the war.
Source for cross-checking: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/louisiana/statemap/la-1860.jpg
Remarks: Charleston, not Lisbon should be the name of the town.
File Name: 737Lisbon, LA.rgn
Old Name: Lisbon, LA
New Name: Charleston, LA
Reason for change: Charleston (Southwest, LA) is the town. Lisbon was not the parish seat by the time of the war.
Source for cross-checking: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/louisiana/statemap/la-1860.jpg
Remarks: Charleston, not Lisbon should be the name of the town.
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as.cities.burn
- Conscript
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State: Texas
File Name: 781Lake Charles, TX.rgn
Old Name: Lake Charles, TX
New Name: Orange, TX
Reason for change: Lake Charles (Charleston) is in LA. Orange is the correct town.
Source for cross-checking: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/louisiana/statemap/la-1860.jpg
Remarks: Orange was called Madison until 1858, so that's why it is called Madison on the map.
File Name: 781Lake Charles, TX.rgn
Old Name: Lake Charles, TX
New Name: Orange, TX
Reason for change: Lake Charles (Charleston) is in LA. Orange is the correct town.
Source for cross-checking: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/louisiana/statemap/la-1860.jpg
Remarks: Orange was called Madison until 1858, so that's why it is called Madison on the map.
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Gray_Lensman
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We should probably start a second thread to discuss this, but I really wonder about the naming convention. Are we quite sure it actually is what people are saying it is?
At present regions often have the names of major towns, but not always. I'm not so sure that regions even have the names of major towns in them in the majority of cases. We know what the designers think they've done, but, in fact, have they actually done it, and is it even desirable in all cases? I think the answer to both of these is no.
This business about confusing the foreigners sounds odd, and I can't help but wonder which foreigners are being refered to. Certainly not the ones who know that Roma is in Lazio or that Paris is in the Ile de France. Most non-Americans would be hard pressed to name a single town in Missouri -- imagine what would happen if you asked what state Kansas City was located in...
Speaking from personal experience, I think all regional and town names will tend to sound a little bit like gibberish to a non-American, so since it's going to look incoherent anyway, it might as well be accurate. Besides, the confusion inflicted on a foreigner is probably the confusion inflicted on the foreign researcher rather than the foreign player. I think it does the game a disservice to dumb it down for a group that is probably better educated and more accustomed to geographical peculiarities than its American counterparts.
I haven't a clue what county Kansas City is located in, but I'll be happy to accept whatever the game tells me is correct as accurate. I am of a generation that believed that certain french magazines that came out on Thursdays were relatively free of historical inaccuracies (and tried very hard to pretend that I didn't notice when it was glaringly obvious that that wasn't true).
As for the county versus region thing, the few regions that I have looked at on the East Coast seem to have county-based names, especially if the county was larger back then. There are superior alternatives in many cases, but only someone with local knowledge (as opposed to a confused foreign researcher like myself) is likely to be able to ferret these out. That's what this thread is all about.
Perhaps when we've collected all the name suggestions we can throw some out and keep others. Judgement is required, not simply following a rule. And that, by the way, may be why I ultimately reject my own suggestion of naming the New York Region Westchester, even though eight tenths of the landmass is actually Westchester County. And outside of Washington D.C., Montgomery and Prince George's look really weird without the word County in their names.
I'll try to be good and not drop my two favorite Oscar Wilde quotes about consistancy, hobgoblins, and marriage.
At present regions often have the names of major towns, but not always. I'm not so sure that regions even have the names of major towns in them in the majority of cases. We know what the designers think they've done, but, in fact, have they actually done it, and is it even desirable in all cases? I think the answer to both of these is no.
This business about confusing the foreigners sounds odd, and I can't help but wonder which foreigners are being refered to. Certainly not the ones who know that Roma is in Lazio or that Paris is in the Ile de France. Most non-Americans would be hard pressed to name a single town in Missouri -- imagine what would happen if you asked what state Kansas City was located in...
Speaking from personal experience, I think all regional and town names will tend to sound a little bit like gibberish to a non-American, so since it's going to look incoherent anyway, it might as well be accurate. Besides, the confusion inflicted on a foreigner is probably the confusion inflicted on the foreign researcher rather than the foreign player. I think it does the game a disservice to dumb it down for a group that is probably better educated and more accustomed to geographical peculiarities than its American counterparts.
I haven't a clue what county Kansas City is located in, but I'll be happy to accept whatever the game tells me is correct as accurate. I am of a generation that believed that certain french magazines that came out on Thursdays were relatively free of historical inaccuracies (and tried very hard to pretend that I didn't notice when it was glaringly obvious that that wasn't true).
As for the county versus region thing, the few regions that I have looked at on the East Coast seem to have county-based names, especially if the county was larger back then. There are superior alternatives in many cases, but only someone with local knowledge (as opposed to a confused foreign researcher like myself) is likely to be able to ferret these out. That's what this thread is all about.
Perhaps when we've collected all the name suggestions we can throw some out and keep others. Judgement is required, not simply following a rule. And that, by the way, may be why I ultimately reject my own suggestion of naming the New York Region Westchester, even though eight tenths of the landmass is actually Westchester County. And outside of Washington D.C., Montgomery and Prince George's look really weird without the word County in their names.
I'll try to be good and not drop my two favorite Oscar Wilde quotes about consistancy, hobgoblins, and marriage.
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Gray_Lensman
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I agree that it makes sense to concentrate on the absolutely necessary name changes for the first go round.
But I wonder what would happen if we were to create a limited version of the region file that only contained the files that we wanted to improve. Presumably they would get overwritten in each new patch, but couldn't they be added back to the region file after patching? Or will the changes to the region files in future patches impact the body of the file as opposed to just the name? That would indeed stop any mod dead in its tracks, as it would have to be completely reconstructed for each new patch.
But I wonder what would happen if we were to create a limited version of the region file that only contained the files that we wanted to improve. Presumably they would get overwritten in each new patch, but couldn't they be added back to the region file after patching? Or will the changes to the region files in future patches impact the body of the file as opposed to just the name? That would indeed stop any mod dead in its tracks, as it would have to be completely reconstructed for each new patch.
Philippe wrote:I agree that it makes sense to concentrate on the absolutely necessary name changes for the first go round.
But I wonder what would happen if we were to create a limited version of the region file that only contained the files that we wanted to improve. Presumably they would get overwritten in each new patch, but couldn't they be added back to the region file after patching? Or will the changes to the region files in future patches impact the body of the file as opposed to just the name? That would indeed stop any mod dead in its tracks, as it would have to be completely reconstructed for each new patch.
Won't this take care of renaming?
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7394
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Gray_Lensman
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Gray_Lensman
- Posts: 497
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Gray_Lensman wrote:....
p.s. You could gather the information needed for changes and then wait for further refinement of the game, regarding all of the above, then do a MOD that won't be interrupted so much by update changes. This is probably a few more months in the future however.
I've started a spreadsheet that will use the rename utility I cited above. I'll test it, then post the csv file for anyone who wishes to run the utility on their installation.
Treat this as a mod for now, with all the usual caveats....
I'll start a new thread when I post.
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