Confederate Elite Bde's

[W.Barksdale]

Given the amount, in game terms anyway, of elite bde's given to the USA I want to compile a list of CSA bde's with similar combat records and exceptional performance.

Please feel free to add any other units that you think should be given 'elite' status or to refute any of my conclusions. Also, please include the
appropriate reference information so that we may verify or discount your claims.

To the developers:
I urge you to consider adding these, and anymore that we can verify as 'elite' on either side, as it will greatly enhance the flavour and add to the
realistic feeling, as well as to recognise these bde's as the crack outfits that they were.

[W.Barksdale]

First off here's some fixes I that I believe to be correct. Please let me know if I've got my facts mixed up.

The Texas Bde should include the 3rd Arkansas infantry regiment. They were added to the bde since they were the only Arkansas troops serving with Lee and earned the same reputation as it's Texas regiments had.


Bonham's Bde should be changed to elite status. Most of these guys served throughout the entire war. Some companies even being recruited months before Fort Sumter was bombarded. At least the 3rd South Carolina. Maybe it could be separated into it's own one element unit? At Fredericksburg much of front line was behind the stone wall. This regiment had no wall and was on a hill in front of Mary House. Many companies in the regiment sustained over 65% casualties including 7 officers. They did not run away.
Info taken from D. Augustus Dickert's "History of Kershaw's Brigade"

[W.Barksdale]

Terry's Texas Rangers

These guys were offically designated the 8th texas cavalry. They fought decisively in many engagements, in both theatres, including Forrests capture of Murfreesboro. In '63 they were brigaded with the 11th Texas. They refused to abide by Johnston's surrender in '65 and tried to make it West into KirbySmithdom. They only went home after they confirmed Smith's surrender. I would classify these guys as mounted infantry and I'd add some appropriate abilities to this unit. Not "elite" per se, since you I don't think you can have elites on mounts. Nicknames include Terry's Texas Rangers, 1st Texas Rangers, The Rangers.
Info taken from the online Archive of the 8th Texas Cavalry http://www.terrystexasrangers.org/

[W.Barksdale]

The Georgia Brigade

This bde consisted of the 13th, 26th, 31st, 38th, 60th, 61st Georgia Infantry regiments. Some sources list them as having the 12th Georgia Light Artillery as well. Their war service included service throughout the eastern Confederacy including service with Jackson in the Shenandoah. This was the Brigade that plugged the gap to stop the Union breakthrough at the battle of Fredericksburg. They were also one of the few units left to observe Fredericksburg during Chancellorsville and being heavily outnumbered successfully delayed the union advance into Lee's rear. At wars end they had casualty rates similar to that Hay's Bde (Louisiana Tigers). Nicknames include the Georgia Brigade, the Georgians. In literature it's often called the Lawton-Gordon-Evans Bde.
Info taken from Charles E. Jones' "Georgia in the War, 1861-1866" and William R. Scaife's "The Georgia Brigade"

[W.Barksdale]

The Mississippi Brigade

This bde should consist of the 13th, 17th, 18th and 21st Mississippi Infantry regiments. They served in both theatres from nearly the start of the war right through until the surrender at Appomatix. The 13th, 17th and 18th were brigaded under N.G Evans and were present at the Ball's Bluff fiasco. At Fredericksburg the Mississipi brigade held riverside near the town and contessted the engineers and troops building pontoon bridge. At Gettysburg this was the Bde who charged into the Peach orchard and helped to break Sickles 3rd corps. It's worth noting that this brigade suffered the most casualties of any bde in Longstreets Corps, which included the Texas Bde, and the nearly the heaviest in the whole Army.
Info taken from Dunbar Rowland’s "Military History of Mississippi", and Shelby Foote's Civil War Narrative: Fredericksburg to Chancellorsville : The Longest Journey, Vol. 4 and Gettysburg to Vicksburg: Unvexed to the Sea, Vol. 5

[PhilThib]

In order to create those brigades, we need also to know the creation date (disband date if any) and the location of first creation, and may be a commander who is already in our DB, if ever...

[Coregonas]

I vote for more elites to the south also!

Perhaps the north has too much elite units compared with the south, but can not say if it is "correct" or not.

Most books seems to report southern troops performed better than northern, and sure not all the work "well done" was not just the confederate generals performance, but the troops also. Well, being on the defensive adds also.

In the game, USA troops perform better always. Best artillery, more easy late inf regulars, and so on... Just the leaders are not so good.


But If I could magically change Athena´s code I would prefer any "battalion" could receive elite status once get a few medals ....instead of being created at exact datas during gameplay.

Ill do those variable, for instance, 1st infantry to kill an enemy element, 1st infantry to get a experience *, or any unit achieving 3*...

[Brochgale]

I vote for more elites to the south also!

Perhaps the north has too much elite units compared with the south, but can not say if it is "correct" or not.

Most books seems to report southern troops performed better than northern, and sure not all the work "well done" was not just the confederate generals performance, but the troops also. Well, being on the defensive adds also.

In the game, USA troops perform better always. Best artillery, more easy late inf regulars, and so on... Just the leaders are not so good.


But If I could magically change Athena´s code I would prefer any "battalion" could receive elite status once get a few medals ....instead of being created at exact datas during gameplay.

Ill do those variable, for instance, 1st infantry to kill an enemy element, 1st infantry to get a experience *, or any unit achieving 3*...

I like the idea of units that perform well in battle getting some or being rewarded with some improved status.

Similarly units that perform badly being punished in some way. It is just an idea though.

[W.Barksdale]

In order to create those brigades, we need also to know the creation date (disband date if any) and the location of first creation, and may be a commander who is already in our DB, if ever...

Terry's Texas Rangers, really the 8th Texas Cavalry, were formed in Houston, TX in September, 1861. At first it was led by Colonel Benjamin Franklin Terry. To be clear they weren't really Texas rangers at all. They should be brigaded with the 11th Texas Cavalry.

The regiments of the Georgia Bde were formed at different times, however, I have them first organised together in April '62 in Georgia, and in May '62 they were at Lynchburg en route to join Jackson in the valley. They were originally led by Brig. General Alexander Lawton.

The regiments of the Mississippi Bde were fromed at differenent times, however, I have them first organised together near Leesburg in early Dec. '61.At first they were led by Brig. Gen. Richard Griffith.

All of these bde's served until their commands were surrendered in '65. Unfortunately, as far as I know, none of these Leaders are in your database.

[W.Barksdale]

Most books seems to report southern troops performed better than northern, and sure not all the work "well done" was not just the confederate generals performance, but the troops also. Well, being on the defensive adds also.

This is a completely ridiculous myth. Whatever books they are, they are suspect.

But If I could magically change Athena´s code I would prefer any "battalion" could receive elite status once get a few medals ....instead of being created at exact datas during gameplay.

Ill do those variable, for instance, 1st infantry to kill an enemy element, 1st infantry to get a experience *, or any unit achieving 3*...

You are getting this elite term mixed up with a veteran.

[W.Barksdale]

I like the idea of units that perform well in battle getting some or being rewarded with some improved status.

Similarly units that perform badly being punished in some way. It is just an idea though.

This is already the case. As a unit gains experience it's stats can drastically improve superbly modelling the transition from green recruit to veteran soldier.

[Brochgale]

This is already the case. As a unit gains experience it's stats can drastically improve superbly modelling the transition from green recruit to veteran soldier.

I was thinking more along the lines of giving units traits like High Morale"as the Stonewall Brigade has" or perhaps some other trait as a reward for good performance in battle.Similarly units performing badly could be punished with something like Dispirited troops and thus penalised.

[W.Barksdale]

I was thinking more along the lines of giving units traits like High Morale"as the Stonewall Brigade has" or perhaps some other trait as a reward for good performance in battle.Similarly units performing badly could be punished with something like Dispirited troops and thus penalised.

Once again you seem to be confusing a veteran unit with an elite outfit. Just because a unit has seen a number of engagements and performed well does not make them an elite unit. It may, however, make them veterans.

[W.Barksdale]

The First Missouri Brigade

This bde origianlly consisted of the 2nd and 3rd Missouri Infantry Regiments and the 2nd Missouri Artillery under Brig. Gen. Henry Little. Formed in Missouri in late Dec. '61. After Pea Ridge they were saluted by their Federal adversaries in acknowedgment of the ferocity in combat. In early Feb '62 after crossing into the Eastern side the Mississippi with Price the bde now added the 1st and 5th Missouri Infantry Regiments as well as the 1st Missouri Cavalry. They were involved in several battles leading up to the siege of Vicksburg. Despite a superb performance by this bde we all know the outcome of that campaign. At Baker Creek they nearly won the day but were left unsupported and were forced to withdraw. They were surrendered and paroled in July 1863. After being exchanged, however, they reformed at Demopolis Alabama in early Sept. 1863 under the command of Brig. Gen. Francis Cockrell. Their enlistments ended early in '64, however, nearly every man left reinlisted to serve for 40 years or until the end of the war!
Info taken from Ephraim Anderson's The First Missouri Confederate Brigade (awesome book, first hand account read carefully) and
Phillip Thomas Tucker's "The South's Finest: The First Missouri Confederate Brigade from Pea Ridge to Vicksburg"

[Coregonas]

Once again you seem to be confusing a veteran unit with an elite outfit. Just because a unit has seen a number of engagements and performed well does not make them an elite unit. It may, however, make them veterans.

Yes this is true.

Just remember some (or a lot?) of these Ageod Elite units are in fact Regular units wich performed well... Seems to me something to add spice to the game, more than being strictly elite, but perhaps I m on a mistake.

Stonewall/Iron brigades were conceived as elite troops? i.e. something like the USA SWAT/SEAL or so?

I believe (again not an ACW expert) those were regular troops, performed well and achieved veteran status in the very begining, earned fame and this has been modeled by Ageod as "Elites", improving nearby morale.

[W.Barksdale]

Yes this is true.

Just remember some (or a lot?) of these Ageod Elite units are in fact Regular units wich performed well... Seems to me something to add spice to the game, more than being strictly elite, but perhaps I m on a mistake.

Stonewall/Iron brigades were conceived as elite troops? i.e. something like the USA SWAT/SEAL or so?

I believe (again not an ACW expert) those were regular troops, performed well and achieved veteran status in the very begining, earned fame and this has been modeled by Ageod as "Elites", improving nearby morale.

You are quite correct, sir, the Stonewall\Iron bde's were not conceived as elite troops. And it is true that they were regular army units that performed well. However, the key difference, I believe, is that their Officers had ALOT to do with aiding their performance and giving them an aura so they considered themselves elite.

So when the game refers to an elite unit it is not just considering the troops experience themselves but also the Colonels and General Officers influence of the Bde.

[Rafiki]

I understand the confusion between tagging an element as "Elite" as opposed to tagging at as "Veteran".

IMHO, elements that are to be tagged as "Elite" need to have something special about them from the start, i.e. that they have outstanding qualities from the moment they are created in-game, while for those elements that become "veteran" over the course of the game are (still IMHO) adequately handled by the experience system.

To me, the question becomes about which criterea are needed to qualify as "Elite" even before the unit has seen a single battlefield in the game.

[PhilThib]

I have prepared and included those 3 new brigades in the game DB. We check if nothing goes wrong with them and will be able to provide them to you in a matter of days. Thanks

[W.Barksdale]

I understand the confusion between tagging an element as "Elite" as opposed to tagging at as "Veteran".

IMHO, elements that are to be tagged as "Elite" need to have something special about them from the start, i.e. that they have outstanding qualities from the moment they are created in-game, while for those elements that become "veteran" over the course of the game are (still IMHO) adequately handled by the experience system.

To me, the question becomes about which criterea are needed to qualify as "Elite" even before the unit has seen a single battlefield in the game.

I always find the original Colonels and General Officers of the 'elite' units had a certain aura and vigour about them directly influenced the regiment or Bde in the form of strict discipline, endless drill, and detailed training. These leaders didn't even have to be formally trained in military affairs, however, they all shared this common inspiriing quality. This together with the fact that some of those regiments were just exceptional soldiers produced the elite outfits we remember today.

[W.Barksdale]

I have prepared and included those 3 new brigades in the game DB. We check if nothing goes wrong with them and will be able to provide them to you in a matter of days. Thanks

This is wonderful! Please let me know if I can do anything.

EDIT: Please note that the Mississippi bde was brought together in Dec '61 and not '62.

[soloswolf]

I have prepared and included those 3 new brigades in the game DB. We check if nothing goes wrong with them and will be able to provide them to you in a matter of days. Thanks

Jawesome!

[Brochgale]

Once again you seem to be confusing a veteran unit with an elite outfit. Just because a unit has seen a number of engagements and performed well does not make them an elite unit. It may, however, make them veterans.

I am not confusing anything - I am being misunderstood? I am suggesting as a possibility that game player raised units should have the ability not just to acquire veteran staus but elite status through achieving success on the battlefield.

[pepe4158]

I am not confusing anything - I am being misunderstood? I am suggesting as a possibility that game player raised units should have the ability not just to acquire veteran staus but elite status through achieving success on the battlefield.

Yeah a better concept, but would require one he$$uva patch change n I doubt thats yet on Pocus's agenda...yeah a neat trick, equal easy to my concept of razing cities down one point huh? As both would require major coding changes.
Yeah Broch, at one time I was considering the same, but decided to lobby for the city reduction myself instead (aka Sherman burning Atlanta), and Rafs answer was suggest it in a mod.
Imagine if you incorporated both in a mod?...now units gain elite experience mostly through game fighting and the ability to reduce city sizes?
However you have to consider play balance, the reason Pocus put in so many northern elite units is that the south Inf. is already superior to the north, n when designing the game he needed some balance, remember if you just put in some new southern elite brigades, you have to take out something else and I contend it should be the southern Cav...hmmm tricks (dare I say exploit) as such deep incursions NEVER happened historically due to logistical problems.
So replace those with the eite brigades which were historic n reduce the ability to raid so deep into the north (which actually seems done already due to the new patch.)

[Rafiki]

Yeah Broch, at one time I was considering the same, but decided to lobby for the city reduction myself instead (aka Sherman burning Atlanta), and Rafs answer was suggest it in a mod.
Imagine if you incorporated both in a mod?...

Did I? I can't remember it, and I don't think city razing can be even be accompished in a mod, I'm afraid.

[pepe4158]

hmmm you said something about learning to mod myself lol....n i said my mod would include razing cities lol
Yeah you could do it in a mod, but I think your mod patch would have to alter Pocus's original exe would be quite a trick n those sprites are a little above my ability for sure, but hope not soon lol

[Old Peter]

In regards to veteran brigades, perhaps their could be a symbol to show that they are considered "veteran" at a glance.

Old Peter

[soloswolf]

In regards to veteran brigades, perhaps their could be a symbol to show that they are considered "veteran" at a glance.

Old Peter

The bars on the left of a units picture show this. Bronze is aveage, Silver is above average, Gold is great.

In a division's picture, it seems to be that whatever the majority of the composite elements are determines the overall appearance of those bars.

[Old Peter]

The bars on the left of a units picture show this. Bronze is aveage, Silver is above average, Gold is great.

In a division's picture, it seems to be that whatever the majority of the composite elements are determines the overall appearance of those bars.

Oh... Forget the previous comment, then!

Old Peter

[soundoff]

I have prepared and included those 3 new brigades in the game DB. We check if nothing goes wrong with them and will be able to provide them to you in a matter of days. Thanks

Did the three new brigades get added. If so to what patch and what are they?

[Gray_Lensman]

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