The Railroad from Lexington, Ky to Knoxville, Tn...

[PBBoeye]

One could also say that since most of those RRs are in the game, it is easier to just cut back on completely ahistorical ones and just leave the ones constructed during the war. Less work that way.

[PBBoeye]

I've condensed JimWindsor's RR comments/suggestions into one list below (and a TXT file for download).

I'd like to know what gamers and AGEod think of these? I am willing to do the graphical work (I've been tinkering with region graphics anyhow), and if I could get one or two helpers to dole a bit of work out to, all the better. Obviously this is a big project - mainly graphical. I suppose we could cut the links (or add them) ourselves as a mod, too.

But I think this would be a necessary step toward making AACW more historical. I stress that as important, because why have a game that models the military organizational issues so wonderfully, then have a weakness such as ahistorical railroads?



[color="Sienna"]Proposed Rail Deletions:[/color]

1) Hampstead TX <-> Mongomery TX <-> Navasota TX <-> Sumpter TX <-> Cotton TX <-> Woodville TX <-> Teran TX <-> Milan TX <-> Mansfield TX <-> Shreveport LA (<-> Marshall TX).

2) Shreveport LA <-> Lebanon LA <-> Vernon LA <-> Monroe LA.

3) Lake Charles TX <-> Lisbon LA <-> Opelousas LA <-> Vermillion LA <-> Pierre LA.

4) Springfield LA <-> Baton Rouge LA <-> Clinton LA <-> Bell MS.

5) Brown AR <-> Madison AR

6) (Humphreys TN <-> Davidson TN)

7) (Meridian MS <-> Butler AL <-> Kent AL <-> Union AL)

8) (Meridian MS <-> Sullivan AL)

9) Madison TN should travel directly to adjacent Tippecanoe MS, w/o doglegging thru McNairy TN.

10) Henry TN should travel directly to adjacent Humpreys TN, w/o doglegging thru Stewart TN.

11) Harrison KY <-> Braken KY <-> Mason KY <-> Boyd KY <-> Louisa WV <-> Pleasant WV <-> Kanawah WV <-> Crawford WV <-> Greenbriar WV <-> Hardin WV <-> Mercer WV <-> Whyte WV.

12) Sumner TN <-> Smith TN <-> Putnam TN <-> Overton TN <-> Fentriss TN <-> Scott TN.

13) Anderson TN <-> Scott TN <-> Wayne KY <-> Pulaski KY <-> Lincoln KY <-> Marion KY.

14) Knox TN <-> Greene TN <-> Sevior TN.

15) Albany GA <-> Loundes GA <-> Thomas GA <-> Brown GA.

16) Mongomery AL <-> Elmore AL <-> Selma AL.

17) (Guilford NC <-> Yancey NC <-> Pittsylvania VA).

18) Cheraw SC <-> Chesterfield SC <-> Rockingham NC <-> Moore NC <-> Orange NC <-> Wake NC.

19) Person NC <-> Mecklenburg VA.

20) (Appling GA <-> Early GA).

21) Saint Louis MO <-> Hill MO <-> Perry MO <-> Cape MO <-> Scott MO <-> Alexander IL.

22) Henderson KY <-> Muhlenburg KY <-> Warren KY.

23) Charles City, VA <-> New Kent, VA <-> James City VA


[color="RoyalBlue"]Proposed Rail Additions[/color]:

1) Banks GA <-> Dawson GA.

2) Muskogee GA <-> Opelika AL.

3) (Suwanee FL <-> Hamilton GA)

4) Hanover, VA <-> Henrico, VA (Richmond)

5) Hampstead, TX <-> Navasota, TX

[PBBoeye]

OK, so I thought I'd throw this in - since we can't build RRs during the game, it would probably be a balancer if we allowed all RRs that were created during the war to exist on the map.

[PBBoeye]

Jim,

I am currently modifying region graphics for the RR overhaul. I wanted to get your thinking on the following rail lines that exist in AACW that you propose should be deleted. As I understand it, these rail lines were constructed during the war, correct?


[color="Blue"]1) <snip!>... Shreveport LA (<-> Marshall TX)

6) (Humphreys TN <-> Davidson TN)

7) (Meridian MS <-> Butler AL <-> Kent AL <-> Union AL)

8) (Meridian MS <-> Sullivan AL)

17) (Guilford NC <-> Yancey NC <-> Pittsylvania VA).

20) (Appling GA <-> Early GA).[/color]



Yet, you proposed adding the following non-AACW, mid-war rail line into the game:

[color="Red"]3) (Suwanee FL <-> Hamilton GA)[/color]

So please update me with your concepts here and I will hold these adjustments off until the end.

PBDubya suggested that perhaps we should handle war construction rail lines as AGEod did with West Virginia - just make them exist at game's beginning. I mentioned in the previous post that perhaps since we cannot actually construct new lines during the game, we should perhaps leave installed any during-the-war constructed lines that currently exist on the AACW map.

Would like to get some other people's thought on that, please.

[jimwinsor]

Right...all these rail lines did exist at some time during the ACW...but not in July 1861. They all got built during the war.

Whether you delete them (or, in that last case, add it) depends on how you want to handle built-during-the-war rails.

[Jagger]

Can railroads constructed during the war be added via events? Substitute regions-one with and one without the railroad?

[Jabberwock]

Can railroads constructed during the war be added via events? Substitute regions-one with and one without the railroad?

I believe Pocus is planning on making this happen in the not too distant future.

Pocus, here is the reminder you asked for.

[PBBoeye]

How could that possibly be represented on the map? Can't, as far as I can tell.

I will say this - it will be possible for players to pick and choose which rail line(s) they want to delete/add in the future. I have done five rail line deletions so far (graphics, database is easy). What you have for any particular rail line are the altered graphic files + the altered region database files (with deleted jump links). So if a player wants to delete just this and that rail line, he can do so by selecting those particular railroad packages (I'm going to put each rail line in a separate zip + one massive inclusive zip). He then installs them and he is set to roll (or not).

Everyone can then alter the game according to their wishes as regards the RRs.

Now, regarding the possible plans to activate railroads, unless it can be represented on the map in some type of format, I think it is asking for a lot of trouble. If it can be done, then it is great. But without graphic info, there is going to be one monsterous wail of unhappiness.

Anyhow, I hope to have this railroad project completed by early September.

[Jabberwock]

How could that possibly be represented on the map? Can't, as far as I can tell.

I will say this - it will be possible for players to pick and choose which rail line(s) they want to delete/add in the future. I have done five rail lines so far (all deletions), but what you have for any particular rail line are the altered graphic files + the altered region database files (with deleted jump links). So if a player wants to delete just this and that rail line, he can do so by selecting those particular railroad packages (I'm going to put each rail line in a separate zip + one massive inclusive zip). He then installs them and he is set.

Everyone can then alter the game according to their wishes as regards the RRs.

Now, regarding the possible plans to activate railroads, unless it can be represented on the map in some type of format, I think it is asking for a lot of trouble. If it can be done, then it is great. But without graphic info, there is going to be one monsterous wail of unhappiness.

There would probably have to be two region files, one pointing to each graphic. And the region files of surrounding areas would be modded with rail links to the version with rail. The event would switch over to the new region.

That is how I would do it, but I may be totally off.

[PBBoeye]

Well, I understand what you're saying, but I just don't know that the program will reload datafiles like that.

Of course, I know like NOTHING about coding, so never mind me.

Still, I have to plug away with this project, because at least it gives us all alternatives. Whatever DEV (development) does, I am sure is great.

[Jabberwock]

Right. It would require region files and graphics to be reloaded between turns. I don't believe that is possible yet.

[PBBoeye]

I'd like to officially ask for some help in the RR mod. I need someone to alter the jump links for the region files. I could do it, but it is that much more time. I am serious - these region graphics take a long time to do when you are looking at 70-80 total regions (and that doesn't include winter regions).

So if someone is experienced with the region data files and would like to eliminate the appropriate jump links for me after I've completed each deleted (or added) RR line...

.. [SIZE="3"][color="BLue"]ENLIST![/color][/size]

[PBBoeye]

Note the RR from Marion to the Alabama River. Is it supposed to just link into the main line running west from Selma, or is it supposed to continue down to the river? If the latter, then I guess that's just some pickup point for river cargo?

Btw, I did my 'time' at Marion Military Institute in that thar Marion. Established 1842 - stayed in the historic, refurbished barracks. Eerie....

[Jabberwock]

So if someone is experienced with the region data files and would like to eliminate the appropriate jump links for me after I've completed each deleted (or added) RR line...

You should be asking for help from someone with a copy of the Map Utility. Notepad edits to the region files are just a temporary fix.

[PBBoeye]

Anyone out there want to give some recommendations on the USA (Federal) rail roads that might be ahistorical? I don't want to do something only for the CSA and leave the USA as ahistorical.

[PBBoeye]

OK, I'm not getting any feedback or comment on this issue. I've already corrected a large number of region graphic files (like 50-60 at least) and the total project might exceed 150 files. That doesn't include the data file adjustments. That, folks, is a hell of a lot of personal time and effort.

But no one is commenting or stepping up to offer insight on some of the things I've asked about. In particular, while I have all the info on the CSA railroads, I am not willing to just leave it at that for adjustment, since rail lines are essential for troop movement, reinforcement, and especially supply. And the Union needs no extra help with any of that. Thus, a historically correct CSA rail net combined with an ahistorically strong USA rail net = wacko

I don't expect or even want help with the graphical work. But I do need info on the Union rails. So, I'll assume the interest from the community is null until some people want to step up and at least offer to help get me some Union info. Thus, [color="DarkRed"]this project is on hold indefinitely[/color].

[Rafiki]

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way, PB.

I can only speak for myself; I have little to no knowledge of historical matters relating to the ACW, especially compared to more than a few of the posters here, so I have no insights to offer about this. Double that last thought when considering that here is a project whose ambition is to fix what isn't correct in the released/patched game and one knows that PhilThib et al have done a considerable amount of research into this themselves.

I can, however, say that I'd like to see this fixed for the game

My point here? To let you know that your efforts are appreciated, and that there is interest in the community, even if no-one has been able to provide you with the Union rail info you seek (yet).

I may not be one of your bearded ladies, but I am more than willing to pick up a couple of pom-poms if that will help

[PBBoeye]

I prefer moustaches over beards.





Thanks for the comments. I want to see it fixed, too, which is why I've set off on it. But I don't have all the info, nor the time to get it all and also do the modifications. So it will open back up if I get some aid.

[PBBoeye]

Anyone out there want to give some recommendations on the USA (Federal) rail roads that might be ahistorical? I don't want to do something only for the CSA and leave the USA as ahistorical.

I'm going to bump this by quoting myself here.

Really, we only have a few guys doing work to further the status of the game. There are some who could do a little research on the internet on this issue, and by means of doing it open up the game tremendously. A historical rail net for the game would change things significantly, and for the better. AACW is great, and has tremendous potential.

OK, here's a quick poll:

[SIZE="4"][color="DarkSlateBlue"]AACW Community Census[/color][/size]

Giver/Helper/Builder
Taker/Leech


I know - a bit harsh, but this is the whip in action here. Next up will be conscription and small bands of good ol' boys on horses with shotguns riding out to your farms.

C'mon, I really want to do the work here!

[jimwinsor]

Well, one good thing to keep in mind is that the northern rail network is by it's nature not going to be as critical as the southern ones. The southern ones are going to be the ones fought over in the game, and will channel the routes of invasion. They thus have a huge effect on the game.

Not so much the northern ones. A rail line inaccuracy up there won't have nearly the same earth-shattering effect as one in the south. Ie, a rail line thru the Cumberland Gap, or West Va, creating a whole new theater of operations that did not exist historically.

The north is/was pretty well railed, you can pretty much go to all major towns and cities, east-west and north-south, by rail, and the current Union rail net reflects that. It looks and feels about right.

Any inaccuracies that might lurk up there on closer examination will not have THAT much impact on game play. A few movement points, plus or minus, moving between northern cities, as best. No big whoop.

[PBBoeye]

Any inaccuracies that might lurk up there on closer examination will not have THAT much impact on game play. A few movement points, plus or minus, moving between northern cities, as best. No big whoop.

Thing is, Jim, the proposed CSA deletions will really put the CSA in a bitter bind on the supply issue, as well as movement (which we understand as historical). Whereas the Union will be left their full complement of historical and ahistorical RRs, which make their supply situation even greater for them and heavier against the South. So it's like you're pushing the CSA into an even deeper hole and leaving the USA sitting pretty, which to a strong degree they were anyhow.

I don't expect to lop off much in the way of Northern rail lines. But I can't imagine that with all the ahistorical southern lines, that the northern lines have somehow gotten by without much inaccuracy. Just doesn't make much sense to me.

At any rate, it comes down on a certain level to principle, if you can call it that. Supply and RRs are going to be huge when you start cutting out ahistorical rails.

[jimwinsor]

Actually my thinking is the rail deletions in the south help the CSA big time, making the south easier to defend. The north needs to stay near rivers and rail lines for supply purposes; taking away rail routes limits their options and channels the invasion points into fewer, more easily defended routes.

[PBBoeye]

An interesting angle to consider. Thanks.

[Jabberwock]

These are cut from a Lloyd's map drawn in 1861 intended to show border states:

[PBBoeye]

Thank you, sir! Looks somewhat familiar. I researched an online site where there were maps you could look at with the MrSID program. Were these perhaps from that site? If you know of any others for the farther north states, I would appreciate a link or two. I just need to find resources.

Regardless, this gives me something to start working with. I had decided to pursue it anyhow because getting the Union done can always be added in. This, however, gives me hope that the materials exist to get a historical balance for each side's rail network.

Thanks again!

[Jabberwock]

Thank you, sir! Looks somewhat familiar. I researched an online site where there were maps you could look at with the MrSID program. Were these perhaps from that site? If you know of any others for the farther north states, I would appreciate a link or two. I just need to find resources.

Yes, these are from the Library of Congress site. Translated from MrSID/JPG2 format using IrfanView, then cut in Photoshop to get a reasonable file size. I believe there are period Lloyd's maps for the individual states available there.

[PBBoeye]

Great.

OK, so here's the situation, since the project can move forward now:

Pocus and I spoke some time ago about what historic RRs to leave in and what to take out. In particular, we spoke about RRs constructed during the war. Speaking with JimWindsor, he and I agreed that rails through the first two years of the war (spring '63) should stay in, and the others go.

Then after speaking with Pocus, he suggested all rails that existed through the end of 1863, due to their importance in the Union strategy. If anything I've read recently has been interesting, it's been how the ACW was really unique in that it was the first war where railroads featured prominently in war strategy. Very interesting. So Pocus' suggestion sounded.... more sound. And hey, he's the developer (slave-driver).

Thus we have this situation - [color="RoyalBlue"]we need to determine what [color="DimGray"]CSA railroads[/color] were constructed post-1863[/color]. These get yanked, the others stay. By 'constructed', I mean mainly became operational. Of course their construction started a good time before their operation. I know the CSA Railroads site has good info, and for whatever reason, there is more easily accessible info on the CSA railnet.

I will look into the Union rails later, since that will be the last piece of the puzzle to be... subtracted (that's the term), if at all. There should only be a handful of them at most - that's what I am hoping. So if my CSA rail guy would be so good as to check things over when he gets a chance, that would be wunderbarste.

Btw, upcoming patch (I think I can say this) will likely be having the railroad that runs down the VA peninsula towards Fort Monroe removed, but a historic (and important to the Peninsular Campaign from the CSA standpoint) railroad added between Richmond and Hanover. Thus, you will start to see right off the bat how planning ahead in such a crucial area next to a capital such as Richmond becomes important. No more blasting reinforcements down that ahistorical rail line now.

[PBBoeye]

Jabberwock gave me an excellent site, and the maps there are tremendous.

I've looked over lower Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa so far. ILL is by far the most important, but since I was in the area...

And I'm really impressed with the way the game's RRs are looking. I don't foresee much change in those areas, and to be truthful, most of them would be additions.

Something to note for the long term. But for now things look good. I'll keep checking the North, heading eastwards now.

[Jabberwock]

Jabberwock gave me an excellent site, and the maps there are tremendous.

Here is the address for others who might be interested:

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/rrhtml/rrmap.html

[PBBoeye]

One of the things I find telling is the huge gaps for most regions and states of surveys done during or shortly after the war. Especially the CSA states. Very few mid-war maps available. Many in the mid-1850's and 1870's, but the 1860's are rare.