Confederate Elite Bde's

[soundoff]

Many thanks Gray. Only just did a clean 1.10b install this evening.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Coregonas]

Regarding Elite bdes, playing GC seems our Stonewall brigade did lost Elite status. leure:

I did never saw this, as we are playing the July 61 campaign instead of the April 61.

This is a CLEAR advantage to my USA counterpart, as sure their California Brigade is clearly overrated. These units are made of street urchins, , while our Stonewall men are admired all around the North American citizens.

[Rafiki]

(...) as sure their California Brigade is clearly overrated. These units are made of beach bonvivants, ,

Actually, those guys came from Philadelpia. Can't say I've heard much about "beach life" in Philly, so I'm guessing it doesn't have much of it....

[Coregonas]

Need to change joke then...

[Rafiki]

Well played

[Franciscus]

Terry's Texas Rangers, really the 8th Texas Cavalry, were formed in Houston, TX in September, 1861. At first it was led by Colonel Benjamin Franklin Terry. To be clear they weren't really Texas rangers at all. They should be brigaded with the 11th Texas Cavalry.

Well, in my current game this unit did show up in Setember 1861, by event (although with the "evt_nam_CSA_TexasRgrBde" message, that should be corrected), but in Galveston, and consisting only of the 8th Texas. Besides, they do not seem to be elite ??

[arsan]

You are right about the wrong place and the missing even textt (that is strange, as i had seen and even translated to Spanish the event texts for this new CSA brigades on the local strings file some weeks ago but i don't know why it is not used on game).
But check again the unit and you will see is not a lone regiment. Its a brigade with the rest of the elements missing (can't remember if its is missing 1 or 2 more cav elements). Send them to a depot or big town and they will grow in size.
Regards!

[boboneilltexas]

One of the reason Stonewall's troops were better was they had repeating rifles, a great advantage in 1st bull run. I remember one of my old games had an option to upgrade weapons. Since after battles I get a message that I've captured 1000 or so rifles, maybe we could add some like that in. We would get a notice that i have 1000 henry rifles available and I could replace a unit's smoothbores with them and improve the unit. I could click on a unit ansd see what they have and allocate the rifles. This would increase the firepower of the unit and i could use the old rifles to start a militia unit.

[mikee64]

<snip> Besides, they do not seem to be elite ??

I don't think the TX Ranger brigade is going to be elite, because there is no such element as elite cavalry, unless I'm mistaken. The regiments do have the same stats as regular cav.

[tagwyn]

Unca Billy did NOT burn Atlanta. The scrambe of locals attempting to escape started fires the Union troops eventually 0ut out. T

[W.Barksdale]

I don't think the TX Ranger brigade is going to be elite, because there is no such element as elite cavalry, unless I'm mistaken. The regiments do have the same stats as regular cav.

No elite cavalry bdes, unfortunately. I believe that they start with a some experience, though, thus increasing their stats.

In fact, the Rangers often fought dismounted. They could be classified as mounted infantry.

[arsan]

No elite cavalry bdes, unfortunately. I believe that they start with a some experience, though, thus increasing their stats.

In fact, the Rangers often fought dismounted. They could be classified as mounted infantry.

It's a little confusing as this special Texas Ranger brigade are Texas Rangers in name only. They are in fact cavalry.
The real texas ranger units (250 men strong instead of 1000 men strong as other cav) are not cavalry. The picture is on horse, but they does not move like cavalry, they move as light infantry/irregulars. So it's like mounted infantry as you say.
Stacked together with cavalry they will slow them down on plains and will be slowed down by the cav on rough terrain.
I try to use the rangers alone.
Regards!

[Coregonas]

Regarding CSA cavalry brigades.

Its confusing for new players 1st Virginia Cavalry Brigade being named:

1st Virginia

The same as another lone independent unit being named 1st Virginia.

It should be named as

1st Virginia Brigade

(or somewhat clearly explaining is a brigade)

Many players dont even know they have a cav brigade once they start playing (myself had some time to find this, and thanks to the second element added during a replacement)

In fact, lots of starting brigades understrenght (size 1) are not clearly named as brigades, adding to the confusion yes. But seems easier to know there are Infantry Bdes understrenght.

Edit-> Why Stonewall brigade is not Elite in the July campaign leure:? Seems just a mistake... as I believe they ve not lost their repeating rifles...

[Gray_Lensman]

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[arsan]

Gray with this reasoning, no brigade should be elite as all got their reputation during the war, after appearing on game.
Following your idea, only brigades formed by pre war veterans/elite units should have elite ability. But i don't think there is any of this... maybe some regular army regiment? But i'm not sure if patrolling the far west is enough to get elite status.
Stonewall brigade is on the same boat than all the north brigades which are considered elite in the 1861 campaigns. And in many cases they have the elite ability with less merits than the Stonewall brigade.
Honestly, i think somebody just forgot to make them elite and it should be fixed if possible.
And... are they elite on he april campaign? i think not... and they should too.

By the way i had never heard anything about the Stonewall brigade having repeating rifles In summer 1861??
Regards

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Coregonas]

This is because the start of the July 1861 Campaign preceeds the time when they earned their reputation.

The same reasoning applies when some generals which were killed historically are removed from later dated scenarios, since these scenarios start after the specific general is already dead. (This is not the same as "Death Events"). I just removed Jesse Reno from the 1864 Campaign Scenario, because he was killed at the Battle of Stone Mountain in 1862.

Yes, but -> Stonewall Bde starts Elite in the April Campaign with the shenandoah army.

Yes... Still no 1st manasas... but they are designed as elite in the April camp.

Several threds months ago... were some discussion on the "elite" status, It is clear the concept of elite in the game is more flavour than reality. Most of the "elites" are not elites as we now understand (i.e. parachutists and so), these are just regular troops than went famous in the field.

The elite troops are beautiful add +5% to the division and are a good idea in the game.

I asked for AACW2 (surely others had better ideas in the Wish thread) than the elite status be a random result of the first battle, by doing a TRIED / UNTRIED random bonus / malus (type TOAW).

[Coregonas]

By the way i had never heard anything about the Stonewall brigade having repeating rifles In summer 1861??
Regards

In fact I dont know seriously about this... some one told in a thread I believe, but it doesnt matter in fact.

readed ?-> boboneilltexas a few posts ago in the thread

[soloswolf]

They do in fact spawn as elites in the April '61 Campaign.

[mikee64]

This is also the first time I have ever heard of the Stonewall brigade having repeating rifles. Source?

[arsan]

Though, I'm not sure if the scenarios are all designed this way, what should be occuring is these elite brigades should be showing up as timed events at the point in time in which they historically earned their elite status. If they are on the map prior to that time, they should not be elite just yet. Unfortunately, if these events are not properly designed, you end up with 2 units with the same name.

Hi Gray
No, it does not work like this on the game. They just arrive on their historical formation date (more o less i guess) already as elite. As Coregonas says, its mostly a flavour thing.
I did not remembered Stonewall brigade was elite on april 61. But it seems it does. In that case, not being elite on july is obviously a little OOB bug that should be fixed.
Regards

[boboneilltexas]

This is also the first time I have ever heard of the Stonewall brigade having repeating rifles. Source?

I'm the one who reported that and I'll have to get back to you with a reference as I read it in a history of the battle. I do not have the source at my fingertips.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Brochgale]

I did read somewhere once that the CSA did have access to repeating weapon patents but never exploited the technology - I will have to check that on from my reading lists if I can remember where I read it?

[Banks6060]

Yeah, I've thought a more generic approach to the "elite" designation may be needed. Say some early brigades are that way, but all the rest have to earn it through experience. Or perhaps a random event creates an elite brigade during a battle. I'd say during just about every major fight there was at least one brigade that came out of it with some kind of nick-name or elite status.

[Pocus]

abilities gained in-game is something I would like to add yes, but this is not top priority. I hope to do that for VGN.

Perhaps something can be done with the current script engine, by selecting an experienced element and converting it to another type.

[W.Barksdale]

It's a little confusing as this special Texas Ranger brigade are Texas Rangers in name only. They are in fact cavalry.
The real texas ranger units (250 men strong instead of 1000 men strong as other cav) are not cavalry. The picture is on horse, but they does not move like cavalry, they move as light infantry/irregulars. So it's like mounted infantry as you say.
Stacked together with cavalry they will slow them down on plains and will be slowed down by the cav on rough terrain.
I try to use the rangers alone.
Regards!

Yeah the brigade just got the nickname because they were from Texas. They were not a Texas Ranger unit. To clarify, I believe the Texas Ranger Bde should have mounted infantry status. This bde moved around on horseback, however, oftentimes fought dismounted as infantry. They probably picked up the idea serving under Nathan Bedford Forrest. This tactic is one reason why his columns were so successful.

[Coregonas]

abilities gained in-game is something I would like to add yes, but this is not top priority. I hope to do that for VGN.

Perhaps something can be done with the current script engine, by selecting an experienced element and converting it to another type.

Im very happy to hear both things. We can be patient if we wait for new improvements.

[tagwyn]

Stonewall brigade did NOT have repeating rifles, as such. Most soldiers could get off 3 rouinds per minute.