User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Thoughts after first PBEM

Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:03 pm

A few random thoughts on the game after completing my first full campaign by PBEM with Gene (Grenna). I found the game to be outstanding, one of the finest games I have ever played PBEM and it went down to the wire with victory close for both sides right to the very last turn - my out of supply armies close to collapse around Richmond (it was also close when I played Gene at BoA, he took the spoils that time).

Random thoughts :-
Although the CSA finished the game in a far superior position than they did historically, suffering 50,000 casualties less than the Union forces and holding on to most major cities and coastal ports their target in 1865 / 1866 for a morale victory was an unattainable 225. It seems to me that the CSA should have less resources but an easier route to victory by morale in the later years (although the Union and CSA NM levels were both close to defeat). The CSA finished the war with 6,000 unused war supplies.

The CSA were awarded a VP victory although the same screen viewed from the Union side declared the game to be a stalemate!

The one thing I would really like to see changed is the awarding of morale points for total unit destruction but not for large numbers of casualties. At one point the Union side received 4 morale points for a battle in which they inflicted 5,000 casualties while in the same turn the CSA were awarded only 2 morale points for inflicting 17,000 casualties on Union forces in a single battle.

Many times in the game I lost a morale point for the destruction of a single scout cavalry unit while getting none for large battle victories. This gets very frustrating as the points mount up.

I must say that I’m sure Gene also suffered occasions of this but one tends to pay more attention when such things go against you :sourcil:


Minor :-

The description IRONCLAD rather than Ironclad can appear on some Ironclad unit descriptions (unit detail panel).

A unit sprite can still sometimes appear in the wrong region.

I can move a unit out of a stack in a region and keep any defensive benefits (which I think is a good thing) but if I move a unit out of a stack in a town It loses defensive benefits.

I’m a bit worried about the retreat logic (case in point being ships) after a fleet of mine retreated before battle from a badly weakened enemy. Does the program look at the full strength of the enemy or their actual strength taking cohesion into account?

I noticed numerous naval battles on rivers resulting in many damaged ships but hardly any were ever actually sunk.

I also noticed an instance when an army that had low cohesion after being hit by disease then fought a major battle and began the following turn with almost full cohesion.


Nice to have :-

Button to prevent replacements being recieved by a stack rather than having to move stacks or place them in an aggressive stance to avoid receiving them (I ended up having to do this as I only had a few replacements and it was vital they went to certain units).

Button to prevent marching to the sound of the guns instead of having to add a fixed unit to a stack to prevent it.

Button to delay the movement of a stack (each click could delay a further day up to 14 days - it may not mean you move on exactly the day you want to but it gives you more chance of this). Various uses for this.

A change to prevent single gunboats blocking river crossings in such large regions (the current situation could lead to dreadful play in PBEM games to players so inclined).

More information to explain numerous changes to NM victory targets. More information on options taken by the enemy.

Thanks once again for such an enjoyable game.
Chris

grenna
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:03 am
Location: Ashford, CT USA

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:09 pm

Many thanks, Chris, for another great game - I quite enjoyed it!

I noticed many of the same things which you have pointed out, particularly the loss or gain of a morale point or two for seemingly minor skirmishes.

Here are a few mistakes which I made and things I overlooked during our game:

- I misunderstood the nature of amphibious landings. I thought that forces landing at Number Ten would be storming ashore into the teeth of the defenses. thus I attempted to take the force by land. I wasted many months and suffered huge cohesion losses even - though my forces took numerous supply wagons - moving into Number Ten overland ( taking 40+ days each time). Finally I safely landed forces from my river fleet. Big misunderstanding on my part.

- I did not do enough raiding early on - I took too long raising enough cavalry.

- I found it difficult to maintain blockades of individual ports, particularly those with 3 exit points. After getting enough naval force, I would need to prepare relief forces to replace those which needed to resupply. Near the end I raised huge numbers of ships and blockaded the entire eastern coast above Charleston.

- Taking Wilmington, NC very early in the game - I think I placed too much emphasis on this, as I spent much energy trying to expand this foothold. Eventually I was able to incorporate this into the stranglehold I placed on Virginia, but it was too late.

- I made no headway near Memphis and Corinth after taking Number Ten. The Rebel forces there were huge in numbers and I was thrown back several times.

- I failed to take New Orleans - Chris had stationed a formidable force to defend the city.

- I had terrible logistical problems along the railroads from Louisville, KY to Nashville and Chatanooga, made far worse by Chris' skilled use of raiding! Some sort of supply sinkhole seems to exist in Hard, KY, and any units stationed there were quickly drained of supply.

- After giving up on the Mississippi and western TN, I concentrated on the East. Chris defended behind river lines, in entrenchments, and used Lee to corrdinate his corps well, defensively. After numerous bloody failures, I decided to stretch his forces in Virgina. I moved my corps around his left flank, constructing several key depots ( some of which the scoundrel took! ) and wrecking his rail connections to the southwest. Eventually, the Army Of The Potomac was able to link up with the forces operating out of Wilmington. Lee was bottled up in a tiny enclave around Richmond and the Peninsula itself.

While this was going on I was finally able to break out from chatanooga and take Atlanta, reaching the outskirts of Savannah when the game ended.

Alas, Chris defended to well and all this took far too long. At game's end the only vital city I held was Nashville. I held a wide swath of Georgia, central Tenessee, most of Virginia and much of North Carolina and Texas (another waste of effort, although it did pin down 2 divisions for a time )

This was an excellent contest and I look forward to others!

Gene

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:38 am

Hi Gene, interesting to see the game from your point of view. A few thoughts on your comments :-

I noticed many of the same things which you have pointed out, particularly the loss or gain of a morale point or two for seemingly minor skirmishes.

I know Pocus was interested in this one a month ago but I have not heard from him about it since. If the same is true with NCP I will be reminding him of it :sourcil: it's my biggest peeve at the moment.

I misunderstood the nature of amphibious landings. I thought that forces landing at Number Ten would be storming ashore into the teeth of the defenses. thus I attempted to take the force by land. I wasted many months and suffered huge cohesion losses even - though my forces took numerous supply wagons - moving into Number Ten overland ( taking 40+ days each time). Finally I safely landed forces from my river fleet. Big misunderstanding on my part.

The travel time in this region needs to be changed. It actually only took a few days to march across these marshes with cannon at the time - 40+ days is way out.

I did not do enough raiding early on - I took too long raising enough cavalry.

Yeah - I was waiting for you!

I found it difficult to maintain blockades of individual ports, particularly those with 3 exit points. After getting enough naval force, I would need to prepare relief forces to replace those which needed to resupply. Near the end I raised huge numbers of ships and blockaded the entire eastern coast above Charleston.

The little harbour mod I made to CSA coastal ports is now in the game thanks to Gray. You should find CSA ports no longer have so many exit points so blockades will be easier and more realistic although you will have to contend more with CSA coastal forts. If we set the bloAdjEnemyFort to 12 in our next game a Union attack on Wilmington for example will soon leave the troops unsupplied unless the Union forces also take fort Fisher (although I think there are some tooltip problems with this I want to test).

I failed to take New Orleans - Chris had stationed a formidable force to defend the city.

It wasn't that big! I think I scared you off but I had a few Ironclads down there to help me out. You could have had New Orleans anytime you know - you went for Houston in the end and I didn't understand why you didn't move from there toward New Orleans?

Some sort of supply sinkhole seems to exist in Hard, KY

Yes something very strange about that place. I mentioned it to Grey. An AACW Twilight Zone.

Gene, your masterstroke was to keep me believing you had a large Army in the west when I actually expected you to use subterfuge to covertly move units to the eastern theatre; even though I expected you to do this you still pulled it off.

Nothing better than PBEM. If anyone reading this is thinking about trying a PBEM game I advise you to go for it. Nothing beats playing a human - they are crafty sods (and you may find they are far more interesting company than Athena).

NCP turn coming up tomorrow Gene!
Cheers, Chris

User avatar
Pocus
Posts: 25673
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:13 pm

Lot of interesting remarks. I will do something for these NM losses rapidly.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

User avatar
Gray_Lensman
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:04 am
Location: Who is John Galt?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:58 pm

deleted

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:07 pm

Gray_Lensman wrote:I just revisited the above mentioned rail line and could not find anything wrong with either the TransLinks in the .rgn files nor the TransportLvls in the 1861 Campaign Scenario files (both April and July).

I checked all the regions involved down the RR line from 517 Harrison IN, down to and including 580 Davidson TN (Nashville).

This revisit was done on the current v1.07h files, so it's possible the problem is fixed in this last update, though I also didn't see anything wrong last week when looking at the v1.07f files either. Is it possible you were playing a game that was started under an even earlier version, even though you have probably been updating? If that's the case, then my conjecture is that your saved games carried forward some earlier version's regional TransportLvl settings from that particular version's initial .scn file.

This is only a guess on my part, but it's the only thing that makes sense with the current information I have. I'm not entirely sure how supply is forwarded, but I am guessing it has more to do with the TransportLvl settings within the .scn files then the the TransLinks within the .rgn files.

Pocus might be able to shed more light on this particular aspect of supply movement.


Thanks for taking another look Gray. We started the game a few months ago
so we did indeed update quite a lot during the game. I will keep it in mind to check the region next time we play.

Cheers, Chris

User avatar
Gray_Lensman
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:04 am
Location: Who is John Galt?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:55 pm

Hopefully, once I have brought the RR work to a close, these types of errors will be virtually eliminated, since there won't be but a few necessary bug fixes between update versions. There is still a few weeks work left though. I am hoping to finish Virginia and Pennsylvania in the next week or so, and then have the work up to that point officialized. This will include Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Virginia, and Pennsylvania, the most common main areas of conflict.

Regards

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:20 pm

Great stuff Gray! By the time I play again in a few months time it should be a near perfect game.

I just started NCP and I can immediately see some link problems. Another few months work for you Gray? :sourcil:

Cheers, Chris

User avatar
Gray_Lensman
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:04 am
Location: Who is John Galt?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:38 pm

Hobbes wrote:Great stuff Gray! By the time I play again in a few months time it should be a near perfect game.

I just started NCP and I can immediately see some link problems. Another few months work for you Gray? :sourcil:

Cheers, Chris


Depends... I'm not stopping until I am done with the ACW RR links, then, I am going to give NCP a look, but I am also interested into looking at WCS's COG2, which I agreed to beta test regarding data accuracy, probably after they get a few beta versions out though. I'm not really the play-it-over-and-over-again type of beta tester. So linkage items in the NCP game will probably attract my attention for sure. As you can see, I have to be careful not to get overcommitted, but it's nice to work on more than one project to keep from getting burned out with too much exposure to a single project.

The thing about ACW is I want to play it through so bad, but I want the RRs to be near perfect before I even start a game. :niark:

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:50 pm

Gray_Lensman wrote:Depends... I'm not stopping until I am done with the ACW RR links, then, I am going to give NCP a look, but I am also interested into looking at WCS's COG2, which I agreed to beta test regarding data accuracy, probably after they get a few beta versions out though. I'm not really the play-it-over-and-over-again type of beta tester. So linkage items in the NCP game will probably attract my attention for sure. As you can see, I have to be careful not to get overcommitted, but it's nice to work on more than one project to keep from getting burned out with too much exposure to a single project.

The thing about ACW is I want to play it through so bad, but I want the RRs to be near perfect before I even start a game. :niark:


Well my advice would be to finish your AACW project and then enjoy the game - we don't want you to be burned! The games are good enough to be around for a long time - I hope you turn your attention to NCP at some point but first enjoy yourself with the great game you have helped to make perfect.

Chris

grenna
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:03 am
Location: Ashford, CT USA

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:19 pm

Hobbes wrote:Hi Gene, interesting to see the game from your point of view. A few thoughts on your comments :-

I failed to take New Orleans - Chris had stationed a formidable force to defend the city.

It wasn't that big! I think I scared you off but I had a few Ironclads down there to help me out. You could have had New Orleans anytime you know - you went for Houston in the end and I didn't understand why you didn't move from there toward New Orleans?



Gene, your masterstroke was to keep me believing you had a large Army in the west when I actually expected you to use subterfuge to covertly move units to the eastern theatre; even though I expected you to do this you still pulled it off.




It looked large and mean to me! I didn't have all that many troops, I hoped to swoop in on you quickly and had hoped to see fewer troops there! I subsequently sent Burnside's force to the Texas coast with the hopes of eventually returning to New Orleans, but never got around to it! By the way, where did those two divisions defending Houston go to?
It was my failure at the northern end of the Mississippi - Number Ten - and at the southern end - New Orleans - combined with my capture of Wilmington, convinced me to make my attempt in the East. It was a very exciting contest and I look forward to exacting my revenge as the Confederates!

Cheers,
Gene

Guru80
Colonel
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:34 am

Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:22 pm

Gray_Lensman wrote:Depends... I'm not stopping until I am done with the ACW RR links, then, I am going to give NCP a look, but I am also interested into looking at WCS's COG2, which I agreed to beta test regarding data accuracy, probably after they get a few beta versions out though. I'm not really the play-it-over-and-over-again type of beta tester. So linkage items in the NCP game will probably attract my attention for sure. As you can see, I have to be careful not to get overcommitted, but it's nice to work on more than one project to keep from getting burned out with too much exposure to a single project.

The thing about ACW is I want to play it through so bad, but I want the RRs to be near perfect before I even start a game. :niark:


Gray, we definitely DO NOT want you to be get burned out. You are easily one of the most important people in this community with all the hard work and dedication you have put into making AGEOD's game as accurate as possible in a very important area of the game.

The rails were part of the backbone of both the Union and Confederates and the game has definitely benefited from your work ethic

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:42 pm

By the way, where did those two divisions defending Houston go to?

They went north to defend against the armies you no longer had in the west!
(but I thought you had).

I can't wait to put on the blue Gene!

User avatar
Pocus
Posts: 25673
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:19 am

Yes, Gray, we much appreciate your efforts :coeurs:
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

User avatar
marecone
Posts: 1530
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:44 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:44 am

Gray_Lensman wrote:Depends... I'm not stopping until I am done with the ACW RR links, then, I am going to give NCP a look, but I am also interested into looking at WCS's COG2, which I agreed to beta test regarding data accuracy, probably after they get a few beta versions out though. I'm not really the play-it-over-and-over-again type of beta tester. So linkage items in the NCP game will probably attract my attention for sure. As you can see, I have to be careful not to get overcommitted, but it's nice to work on more than one project to keep from getting burned out with too much exposure to a single project.

The thing about ACW is I want to play it through so bad, but I want the RRs to be near perfect before I even start a game. :niark:


Please stick with us! We need youand ACW needs you :sourcil: .
Forrest said something about killing a Yankee for each of his horses that they shot. In the last days of the war, Forrest had killed 30 of the enemy and had 30 horses shot from under him. In a brief but savage conflict, a Yankee soldier "saw glory for himself" with an opportunity to kill the famous Confederate General... Forrest killed the fellow. Making 31 Yankees personally killed, and 30 horses lost...

He remarked, "I ended the war a horse ahead."

rasnell
Major
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:16 pm

Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:37 am

Thanks for sharing your PBEM experience. I love this thread. Still haven't been bold enough to try my first PBEM. Afraid of embarrassing myself. At least the AI doesn't laugh at me.

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:09 pm

rasnell wrote:Thanks for sharing your PBEM experience. I love this thread. Still haven't been bold enough to try my first PBEM. Afraid of embarrassing myself. At least the AI doesn't laugh at me.


Are you sure about that? :)

Jump in - you will not regret it!

Guru80
Colonel
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:34 am

Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:16 pm

Hobbes wrote:Are you sure about that? :)

Jump in - you will not regret it!


I have to agree with Hobbes...I was a little nervous of embarrassing myself, and did a few times, but nothing is more fun and competitive than knowing you made the perfect counter to an opponents move or you caught him off guard and at the same time demoralizing when you gambled or didn't notice that gap he broke through or under-estimated his strength and get pushed all the way to Canada.

I absolutely love the PBEM game. I just wish there was another method of online play rather than just PBEM so I could get more turns in without having to wait so long :siffle:

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:14 pm

rasnell wrote:Thanks for sharing your PBEM experience. I love this thread. Still haven't been bold enough to try my first PBEM. Afraid of embarrassing myself. At least the AI doesn't laugh at me.


If you have any worries about the mechanics of PBEM I'm happy to play one of the tiny 4 or 5 turn scenarios against you - and I promise not to
laugh :sourcil:

(I would also be happy to play a larger one if I had the time).

Cheers, Chris

Return to “Help to improve AACW!”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests