Army HQs used as Corps

[McNaughton]

I prefer my mod be used with randomization option if I want to get some surprise from time to time and without to play with historical figures.

The new relocation order will ease 3 stars general transfer.

After the first Bull Run clash, it seems most of the battles until 1862, both East and West, were of modest size....What's you're naming total bore is maybe just ...realistical behaviour

There's yet much more batlting to do, with small forces in the West, on the coast, raising forces to keep game interest for the 12-14 first turns of the game ( and in fact really less as both unique armies are released during the 6th turn and new HQ aren't available until november 1861....

If you perfer to use randomization, go for it, but it shouldn't be used as a reason to eliminate the command structure.

Actually, there was a lot of fighting going on in 1861, in Missouri, in Kentucky, in West Virginia, even in the Peninsula. Battles usually had about 10-15 000 men combined on both sides (small compared to Bull Run, but still battles).

Bethel Church, VA, 1861
5000 men engaged

Carthage, MO, 1861
8000 men engaged

Rich Mountain, WV, 1861
8000 men engaged (about 30 000 were actively campaigning in the region)

Wilson's Creek, MO, 1861
15 000 men engaged

Ball's Bluff, VA, 1861
3000 men engaged

Just to list a few. Campaigns and operations were in full motion during this time. The initial scenarios and startoff forces, in my opinion, are too light and do not reflect the scope at which the pre-war militia was mobilized, and used in combat, during the first half year of the war.

A lot of territory changed hands, and a lot of battles occurred during this era. The only way fighting can be historic, is if units are allowed to form HQs, which is the only way to get CP penalties within managable rates (at around 10%) in theatres where there are no HQs.

[Clovis]

If you perfer to use randomization, go for it, but it shouldn't be used as a reason to eliminate the command structure.

Actually, there was a lot of fighting going on in 1861, in Missouri, in Kentucky, in West Virginia, even in the Peninsula. Battles usually had about 10-15 000 men combined on both sides (small compared to Bull Run, but still battles).

Bethel Church, VA, 1861
5000 men engaged

Carthage, MO, 1861
8000 men engaged

Rich Mountain, WV, 1861
8000 men engaged (about 30 000 were actively campaigning in the region)

Wilson's Creek, MO, 1861
15 000 men engaged

Ball's Bluff, VA, 1861
3000 men engaged

Just to list a few. Campaigns and operations were in full motion during this time. The initial scenarios and startoff forces, in my opinion, are too light and do not reflect the scope at which the pre-war militia was mobilized, and used in combat, during the first half year of the war.

A lot of territory changed hands, and a lot of battles occurred during this era. The only way fighting can be historic, is if units are allowed to form HQs, which is the only way to get CP penalties within managable rates (at around 10%) in theatres where there are no HQs.

1) it's your denial of inadequacy of game engine for command structure which can't work with randomization. My option is working with both, randomization or no randomization

2) my point exactly: small battles, in game terms by 2 to 4 brigades; No Antietiam or even Shiloh... With the current system, armies with corps, you can lead battles with 50,000 or more soldiers by side in 1861...A lot of small battle occurred as I said in my precedent reply.

These battles without hq and divisions are possible and I do that when playing. What I can't is getting a 18 elements Lyon's division with limited CP loss in Missouri in September 1861.

And without the leader mod I've integrated in my own work, The problem is yet more pronounced as I believe players get 2 stars generals quicker.

On this point, it will be my last post on the subject. I've done these changes after some extensive readings on the subject, Itried them without being astonishly bored and I've yet to find why it's a) unhistorical as you said in your first replies b) game-breaking as you switched after.

Re-read my last post, I was talking of small battles. By exchanging too quickly, we're going to risk, as you done, to reply by arguments confirming the adverse point of view.

[aryaman]

Regarding A, it states that they never initiate combat, that doesn't mean that your opponent won't initiate. The evasion ability of an army isn't better than that of a corps, but more based upon the internal force composition.

Regarding B, technically the force doesn't double. As Pocus said, the corps attached to the army will gain the benefit of the army commander, plus the corps commander, thereby fights better. It is more logical to have two corps attached to an empty army than one corps and a full army.

I personally almost always have a division in my Army HQ, primarily due to the possibility of the HQ being attacked, plus, the command benefit inherent in an Army HQ makes a lot of sense to use it.

Also, it is historic (see my Chancellorsville example).

Regarding A, I know about it, what I meant is that it is useful sometimes to enter an enemy held region with an army stack because you know it will not activate, and if your opponent set to attack mode, well, he will lose the terrain advantage
Regarding B, technically, it does double in my example, and it does increase in any other occasion, you have 2 Corps, fine, you can an additional one using your Army HQs, and by doing that you don´t lose any bonus, for the likes of Lee and Grant is a win/win option.
As for Chancelorsville, remember that when Lee comanded I Corps, it was 1) an unusual situation, because Longstreet was away, and 2) Lee acting as a Corps commander was not acting at the same time as an Army commander, Jackson was pretty much on his own. In game terms, you should not have an Army HQs controlling an entire Corps directly and at the same time keeping control of the rest of the Corps in the army. That is why Corps are created, to alleviate Army HQs of direct command of large units in the battlefield.

[Pocus]

Would the export of the coefficient to CP provided by a leader when in an army HQ help some of your mods?