Siege Clarification

[Hobbes]

Can anyone clarify the situation if I have one 1* leader in a fort with 2 regular army units and 1 supply wagon. Would I be better off splitting off the supply wagon from the stack but leaving all units inside the fort?

I would lose the 10% supply wagon combat bonus in case of assault I think (it has to be in the same stack?) but I would not incur the 33% command penalty and I would retain the ability not to surrender?

Cheers, Chris

[Pocus]

another solution would be to transform the wagon into a depot (well you give the depot if you lose true), because in this case you get the +10% firing bonus to all units in the city and still have the no-surrender ability.

For now, the rule is not that satisfying, as if you remove the wagon from the stack, you lose all advantages it can provide. I should take a look at this, at least for cities which can be considered as one compartment.

[Queeg]

But the current rule does create an incentive to build depots, which creates a strategy choice between security vs. mobility. Given that the supply setup already allows significant mobility, I like the few rules that encourage building depots.

[Hobbes]

Thanks Pocus. What if I have one stack in the fort with a wagon and one stack without a wagon? Is the group without liable to surrender then?

2 wagons would be required for a depot.
Chris

[Hobbes]

I hope this can be patched so a wagon present in any stack in a city or a fort gives the supply and no surrender ability. 1.10d?

[Pocus]

I have patched the rule so that a wagon gives the no-surrender benefit to all stacks in the city (for friday). As for the second effect, I concur with Queeg, it is better to give the depot this specific benefit. To be discussed further with players and betas.

[Hobbes]

Many thanks Pocus. I would also be happy to lose the 10% for wagons
and give it to depots, nice idea.
Chris

[Pocus]

I meant that the 10% is still given by wagon, but only for the stack they are in, while the depot give it to all stacks of the region.

The novelty would be to allow wagons to suppress the surrender roll for all stacks, as depots do. (the roll is only suppressed if the stack is supplied though... if you are starving you can surrender!)

[Hobbes]

It seems a little strange to me as a wagon could give a 10% bonus to a stack of 30 units in a fort but if you have 2 units in a fort and the wagon is stacked with only one of them the other cannot get any bonus. What real situation would this reflect as the other would surely in reality have access to the abundant ammo?

I think doing away with the 10% for wagons altogether or giving it to all units in a city makes more sense. Agree that outside of a city only the unit it is stacked with should get the 10%.

Also maybe supply wagons (and artillery?) inside a city should not cost 1 CP as it is in a static position it wouldn't require much attention and this would stop the strange practice of splitting off these units in structures when only one leader and a handful of units are present.

Chris

[Hobbes]

Pocus, any further thoughts on above before the patch? As you currently have it planned I will still have to split off the wagon in a fort with the example above to avoid the 33% penalty however I will retain the no surrender ability. This is better than it was but having to split off the wagon in a structure still seems a little like a fudge to me as it doesn't reflect what would happen in real life.

Cheers, Chris

[Pocus]

I will post the issue in the beta forum. I don't quite like the idea of adding this subtletie that only an handful veteran player would know (aka trick of the guru ).
I would prefer to remove the command cost alltogether for supply wagons, to improve their interest for campaigning armies, as some players already say that they don't use it as they do not provide enough advantages most of the time.

[Hobbes]

I think that may be the best idea
Cheers, Chris

[Generalisimo]

I will post the issue in the beta forum. I don't quite like the idea of adding this subtletie that only an handful veteran player would know (aka trick of the guru ).
I would prefer to remove the command cost alltogether for supply wagons, to improve their interest for campaigning armies, as some players already say that they don't use it as they do not provide enough advantages most of the time.

Agree... best solution.