AGEOD Forums

As mentioned this game is awesome but even with the level of abstracting the mechanics and ease of interface available with this game offer the task of a gamer is daunting!

What is your initial strategy for the South?

What do you build first?

What method do you use to organize everything involved in a turn? Does anyone have a standard checklist of "things to do" each turn?

This game really brings into focus the tactical and strategic poor situation of the South. Although there are theaters, there is really no established front lines to concentrate on. It is really a war of maneuver and trade offs. For example MO seems a loss from the start so why allocate precious resources in that area that could be used to hold TN

A rule of thumb I used early as a Confederate player was to figure out what I could command, how many leaders and divisions I had, and then make my purchases to fill up that command potential.

Since the eastern theatre gets the bulk of an army for free, the Confederate player must take extra care to spend resources building up an army for Tennessee and the Transmississippi departments.

I've only played a few times vs. the AI, but for me the priority is building up Tennessee, since as runyan99 noted Johnston's & Beauregard's forces appear for free. One trick I used in my current game was that I had noticed that moving troops into Kentucky does not trigger the 'CSA Invades Kentucky' events - it is only offensive combat that does this. As such, I railed several brigades to Lexington in June (from my early May builds) to hold that city. I also railed two cavalry regiments that the CSA player gets by default (one from Polk, the other IIRC from the Knoxville force) to north of Bowling Green & Lexington, & then proceeded to cut the rail lines to those cities, to prevent Union forces from using the rails to attack Lexington or reinforce Bowling Green. I noticed at the time that if I had been really aggressive, I could have railed the cavalry regiments to the Ohio River, & crossed to occupy (at least temporarily) a number of cities in Indiana (i.e. Evansville, New Albany, etc.).

Also, make sure you have enough of the right reinforcements to build Johnston's & Beauregard's forces up to full strength. You get line infantry & cavalry for free from events, but you will need artillery (both light & field), as well as elite infantry (for the Stonewall Brigade), IIRC maybe one light infantry reinforcement, & if you can afford it an army HQ reinforcement (I might be missing a type here).

Johnny Canuck wrote: Also, make sure you have enough of the right reinforcements to build Johnston's & Beauregard's forces up to full strength. You get line infantry & cavalry for free from events, but you will need artillery (both light & field), as well as elite infantry (for the Stonewall Brigade)

About "elite infantry". Does this pool appears later in the war in the Replacements screen? I haven't seen any Elite replacements to allocate so far, only Line, Light, Skirmisher infantry etc.

Jacek wrote:About "elite infantry". Does this pool appears later in the war in the Replacements screen? I haven't seen any Elite replacements to allocate so far, only Line, Light, Skirmisher infantry etc.

IIRC, in the April '61 scenario it appears once you have Elite Infantry regiments on the map (i.e. once the Stonewall Brigade appears with Johnston's forces). Or at least, that's what happened in my game.

I won't go into detail, but the major issue for the CSA is the lack of manpower. Money isn't a problem at all - and war supplies can be "boosted" by making the right economical investment at the right moment (see also the runners).

so manage in relationship with your losses - that's the whole spirit.

Something else to keep in mind is to try to time your manpower/tax policies to occur just after scripted National Morale boosts. For example, in the first turn I like to impose a Cotton Ban, which increases National Morale by 3. I then wait to Call for Volunteers & Issue Bonds until the next turn. It means I have almost no money for anything in the first, but it hardly matters since there is nothing much to buy anyway. By waiting a turn, I'm able to get a couple dozen more conscript companies and about the same amount of additional money. It is not much, but for the Confederates every bit counts. The same goes for the summer of 1861, when the options become available again. I try to wait until the Conscription Act increases my National Morale again before using the manpower/tax policies.

It's quite a bit of fun attempting management of your money, supplies & production, and manpower.

I usually don't spend a thing the first couple of turns, then begin to increase industrialization & rail. The USA can be very aggressive about bombarding ports and then unloading land forces, so I usually keep the incursions to a minimum by raising militia early.

Of course, the first thing I do is take Norfolk & besiege Charleston - hoping for a quick takeover.

I use Huger & Magruder to build forces to defend the Virginia peninsulas; while Johnston & Beauregard build to defend - and/or assault - the main Northern forces around DC.

I use Polk to take Paducah [sometimes] and build from there ... Later, Army HQs around Corinth, or just north ... with good size forces at Paduca, Donelson, and Nashville. Cavalry filling gaps.

I slowly build at New Orleans, Vicksburg, and Mobile.

A real juggling act to keep replacements on hand to fill depleted ranks, all the while building up forces and getting support units in place. Organizing your armies using the game's chain of command is is much of the fun of this game!

I pretty much ignore Missouri and Kentucky [except at Paducah], until mid 1862 - which is about as far as I've yet gotten, so this might all prove to be a complete disaster. But, wait till you get that Missouri militia!!!

Arkansas, Texas, and Indian Territory are fun to run around in.

CSA Naval is a REAL challenge - I mainly use gunboats to block river crossings, hit & run [to port] with my larger fleet [Buchanan], and run my blockade runners back & forth, as leaving 'em out there too long will usually be their kiss of death.

What a game. I just keep restarting to try out new strategies, but slowly am increasing how far into the full campaign I get. First few times, I messed up badly in the transfer from Beauregard to Lee in Northern Virginia. Cost me plenty in victory points.

The strategy seems endless!!

Thanks for the quick replys and it is all worth plugging into my strategic toolbox.

The great thing about this game is that there is no one "right" way to play.

Jeff Hudson wrote:As mentioned this game is awesome but even with the level of abstracting the mechanics and ease of interface available with this game offer the task of a gamer is daunting!

What is your initial strategy for the South?

What do you build first?

What method do you use to organize everything involved in a turn? Does anyone have a standard checklist of "things to do" each turn?

This game really brings into focus the tactical and strategic poor situation of the South. Although there are theaters, there is really no established front lines to concentrate on. It is really a war of maneuver and trade offs. For example MO seems a loss from the start so why allocate precious resources in that area that could be used to hold TN

All of my unit builds go into one of 2 mass recruitment centers. Corinth in the west gets all my western recruited soldiers and Richmond in the east. From there, they can be organized into divisions and sent to the areas where they are needed.

The Trans-Mississippi is the easiest region to defend, in my opinion. The ai is very poor with non-railroad based logistics and any stacks they bring to Springfield, Fayette, and Dallas moving south are poorly organized, suffering command penalties, and are out of supply. A decently organized stack with a half-decent leader (and a supply wagon) can pick off Union units at will once they've been in the field for a turn or 2. The one thing to be wary of is Union cavalry operating in the west. With no real "lines" they often strike deep and cut up the few railroads in that region, quickly turning it into a war of supply and attrition. The player should be able to beat the ai at this game. Do not try this tactic further east where the ai is quite good at making use of rails.

Stonewall wrote:The Trans-Mississippi is the easiest region to defend, in my opinion. The ai is very poor with non-railroad based logistics and any stacks they bring to Springfield, Fayette, and Dallas moving south are poorly organized, suffering command penalties, and are out of supply

Generally I would agree on that, but restarting many times I saw sometimes an altered AI behaviour (different Union generals after St.Louis massacre,maybe?). Sometimes Union would send infantry stacks with Wagon supply. Morever, those stacks would sometimes sit still in one region around Rolla or Springfield interdicting my movement. You couldn't get them to move and lose cohesion! Still, it happenes maybe like once in five restarts.

This is an aggressive strategy - expect Confederate casualties to at least equal Union Casualties.
The doctrine is to fight only on northern soil for at least the first year. This requires getting there before reinforcements get organized.

1. Build as many Brigs as possible, followed by Cavalry, Sharpshooters, and Militia. Keep building Brigs until force pool is empty of them. Ignore economic development, supply problems, and organization problems until that time.

2. Turn one, use conscription and financial options that don't require victory points. Embargo Cotton. Turn two, use the rest of the options. Keep using all options as they become available. Try to use non-VP options first, try to time to scripted events. I don't even think about inflation if it is below 25%, I need those cavalry and militia units right now.

3. Cavalry raids. I use them. I use them often. I use them everywhere. I use them enough that those Black Republicans and Abolitionists cower in their strategic cities and pull lots of troops from the armies to try and stop me. Cut rail lines. Blow up supplies and depots. Give the Union a supply problem for a Christmas present.

4. Load 1st Georgia Cav (in Charleston) into the Huntress / Aiken squadron as soon as that unit is unlocked. Move to the upper Hudson River. Raid upstate NY in a generally counter-clockwise direction. Brig moves either to Gulf Blockade or Norfolk, depending on damage suffered. Cav can occasionally escape through Carbondale, PA - but usually this is a suicide mission.

5. Begin funneling all available troops (up to the limit of transport capacity if possible, as long as it doesn't interfere with the Indiana invasion - see below) across to Somerset, Worcester, Dorchester on the Eastern Shore of Chesapeake Bay. Avoid going through Hampton Roads. Troops from Virginia use the York and Rappahanock estuaries. Troops from eastern NC and Norfolk use the Cape Henry - Cape Charles route. I usually also send MacGruder, sometimes a '61 general as well. This area has strong Confederate sympathies, so I keep moving forward (stopping only to reorganize spent brigades) and let follow-on militia units garrison the cities behind the main force. Objective - Wilmington DE. If I can raid and cut rail beyond that, fine; but defend Wilmington (cut the rail there upon arrival and leave it cut until the area is unquestionably mine). Ignore the James river peninsula. If the federals get aggressive there, I have interior lines of defense; I can defend at Richmond.

6. Wait for the right opportunity in Northern VA. Do not offer combat with the main armies unless there is a clear advantage. Stalemate is OK for now, quite a few of my reinforcements are going to other areas. Send one cav to reinforce Fredericksburg, maybe one to Charlottesville or Winchester. Send cav raids into MD and PA. Let one unit take St. Mary's and cut the rail there (just to be annoying) on it's way to reinforce Delaware. If I have taken Alexandria, but am not strong enough to move on Washington, have a brigade of regulars do the same to Port Tobacco. Worst case, retreat. I can hold at Fredericksburg and Charlottesville if I have to. Best case, the Lincolnites are so distracted by the Delaware invasion and all the raiding that I can take Washington. Moderate case, I can send a corps through southern PA before winter hits to reinforce Delaware.

7. Send 1 or 2 militia to cut rail in southern WV while the weather is nice (If they can move up to Elizabeth, great; if not, oh well). Trying to take this area is not a rational objective - so the rail will never do me any good, only harm. Raid Kanawha valley with cavalry. Try to hold at least one city here in preparation for raiding Ohio and the suburbs of Pittsburg.

8. Begin moving troops from Tennessee (led by Polk and one or two '61 gens) up the rivers through / past Kentucky and into southern Indiana. Try to take Evansville before it gets reinforced. Grab Vincennes depot. Take the industrial cities along the Ohio, cut railroads. I have reached my objective; I don't try for Indianapolis or Cincinatti, they are not worth the trouble this year. Send raiders to northern Indiana and Michigan.

9. Do not under any circumstances be first aggressor in Kentucky. I cannot stress this enough. Send any Prestonburg reinforcements over to Kanawha valley (deliberately leaving Prestonburg unprotected). Cut railroads around Louisville and down to Bowling Greene. The imaginary railroad to Lexington can stay. Reinforce Lexington and the cities north of Nashville as troops become available. This is a good area for Bragg to train militia and conscripts, unless I send him to Virginia.

10. Avoid raiding Illinois until I can cross the border in several places at once; then raid Salem, Toledo, Quincy and Peoria. Use a similar strategy for Ohio.

11. Cut rail in MO, and hold what I can. Let the federals do most of the marching in this area. Grab Bloomington and St. Jo if possible. Reinforce Charleston with an eye on eventually taking Paducah / Cairo. This is a nice location for Hardee to train troops coming up the Missisippi. Mass all gunboats at Cape Girardeau.

12. McCulloch (rangers) to coordinate with Sibley (infantry) in Texas and sweep through Tuscon, IT, and western AR. Objective - Springfield, MO.


Advantages:
Initiative. I have it, I expect to keep it.
The Union advantage in supplies and reinforcements is partially or completely nullified.
The Indiana invasion prevents the opponent from doing anything serious in Kentucky / Tennessee. Louisville is isolated. This area is a good base for raiders, and seriously interdicts east - west rail movement. Sometimes it even draws off troops from the other theaters. Looking to next year - It makes a nice base for taking Cincinnatti or Indianapolis (ahem, I meant to say Chicago or Detroit :niark .
The Delaware invasion is a serious thorn in Lincoln's side. Wilmington is easy to defend, cuts the eastern rail / reinforcement line - and thinking ahead, offers better industrialization possibilities than anywhere in the south. It is also a great base for raiders, and within easy striking distance of Philadelphia and Baltimore when the time comes for that.
The Gulf Blockade becomes (economically) the 12th and 13th states in the Confederacy by late autumn '61. Look of surprise on Farragut's face when he runs into a 300-400 point Confederate fleet, priceless. Say hello to some war supplies. Now I can afford those nice locomotives, divisions, ironclads, armies, and naval units I've been wanting. Soon I'll have some left over to start industrializing Georgia and Delaware. I might even buy some artillery.
Northern cavalry and reinforcements get all tied up far from the front lines due to all the raiding. The feds cannot even build reinforcements in large sections of three states.
WV is neutralized as a threat. I should have at least one base here. Surviving / returning cavalry can be used to build up Stuart's Division / Corps over the winter, and I can start thinking about Pittsburg and Cleveland as objectives for next year.

Disadvantages:
Everybody who read this post knows my favorite strategy leure:.
If the US navy gets organized quickly enough, they can interdict the routes to the eastern shore (and upper Hudson) and cut up any units headed there. Then they can move on to the Gulf blockade with an enormous fleet. In a PBEM I would probably have to split the blockade runners into many separate fleets and also split them between the blockade boxes.
I have split my forces. Early and strong reinforcement of Maryland can stop the amphib invasion in its tracks. Added to this, the Union Army of the Potomac really is strong enough to send a reinforced division to Delaware and still defend Washington.
The Army of Northern Virginia does not get as many reinforcements, and must adopt a more defensive / wait-and-see stance. Traditional objectives are largely ignored. Richmond is vulnerable to an aggressive opponent.
Cavalry raids can be countered with militia garrisons.
Inflation could be a problem down the road.
The North can play a similar game, though it is not quite as effective for them due to geography and lack of cavalry in the force pool. However, they do get a potentially enormous fleet of transports.

So, am I ?

Abandon MO altogether, then come back and hit only Charleston once the enormous MO militia arrives in the force pool. Recruit as much as you can there. Organize into divisions under Hardee and Bragg. Viola! First stop, Cairo. Next stop, St. Louis. Final destination, Chicago.

Your strategy sounds great! Did the Union try to take Norfolk in all this? Richmond can defend on its own, but Norfolk could easily fall into the hands of the Union, I would presume.

Jacek wrote:Your strategy sounds great! Did the Union try to take Norfolk in all this? Richmond can defend on its own, but Norfolk could easily fall into the hands of the Union, I would presume.

The AI usually pulls Butler back towards Washington when I do this. One time she tried Norfolk in August / September, but reinforcements from NC cut them up in October. CSS Virginia based out of Dover in the meantime (When it wasn't camped in Hampton Roads). CSS Fredericksburg was finished just in time to help prevent any retreat.
In a PBEM that would be one more thing to watch out for, but I might just be willing to make that trade. Might even shift a corps and try to take Ft Monroe, if the odds looked good.
Honestly, I don't know if I would even try the whole amphib thing in a PBEM, it would be too easy for the feds to pull back and just hold Washington while they crush Delaware.
Once I have bought all the brigs, a second ironclad in the Chesapeake is one of the things I am thinking about. Of course, if I was playing the Union, I would have about 5 monitors ready to go by that time.

The map changed - not visually, but the railroads in southern WV, and southeastern KY are not functioning anymore. The backdoor eastern route from TN to IN is gone. Indiana becomes a much less attractive target, as it is harder to reinforce. Militia from the southeast will have to go the long way round. Evansville becomes a chokepoint. Illinois becomes a more attractive target. Weigh the options; one gets invaded, the other gets raids and scorched earth.
In a PBEM as the Union I would now suggest concentrating gunboats at Evans Ford or Wabash Confluent, rather than at Cape Girardeau, at least until this area was more secure. That way, they block the final approaches to Evansville either by overland rail (EF) or by water (WC). Maybe put 4 in EF and the remainder in WC. Gunboat battles are rarely decisive, so I wouldn't worry about splitting them.

Beseiged units can't destroy rail. I come down on on the side of not liking that particular rule change; but I recognize that I am biased based on the way I have been playing. Anyway, it means suicide raids are less effective, and a greater percentage of raids will become suicide raids.

I don't think I would try either the Indiana or Delaware invasions in a PBEM, especially under the new rules. Its still a decent way to beat the AI, though.

Reffering to your aggressive strategy for the CSA, which settings are you using for this game? I play with a small FOW bonus for the Union AI for enhanced Union aggresiveness. Don't know if such deep raiding would have legs with this setting.

yes, a misunderstanding between PhilThib and I, he did his share of work but I have not updated the regions... this will be in for the official 1.04 patch.

Pocus wrote:yes, a misunderstanding between PhilThib and I, he did his share of work but I have not updated the regions... this will be in for the official 1.04 patch.

Good, Good...

When ???

I hesitate between today or now...

Jacek wrote:Reffering to your aggressive strategy for the CSA, which settings are you using for this game? I play with a small FOW bonus for the Union AI for enhanced Union aggresiveness. Don't know if such deep raiding would have legs with this setting.

I also generally use the low FOW bonus setting.

Create your own FOW, keep moving. Use assault/avoid. Its when you stop that they get you.
As an example:

Raid turn 1: 1st Georgia lands in Troy, NY, and moves west up the Mohawk Valley as far as Syracuse, burning 600 supply wagons and 400 ammo wagons along the way.
Raid turn 2: They demolish track in Syracuse and move down through Auburn and Ithaca to Carbondale, PA. burning another 300 wagons along the way.
Raid turn 3: They demolish track in Carbondale and rest.
Raid turn 4: They rendezvous with Cavalry coming up from the south at Lexington, PA. and burn Frank Buchanan's house down just for spite.

It was beautiful weather this spring, no mud no snow. There were no enemy cavalry to stop me. If there had been enemy militia, I just wouldn't have burned so many supplies, because I've got the avoid option on. I was lucky this time - weather isn't always optimal, sometimes you run into cavalry, etc. You do what you can, let luck take care of itself. Say they were beseiged and destroyed by three units at Carbondale. They took out 1300 wagons, cut 2 important rail junctions, tied up these three units, and probably tied up two more that were hunting for them but did'nt get to them. It will take the Union another two turns to recapture all the cities along the way, and put them back in production. In the meantime, I built three more cavalry in NC that are making their way north right now. Does that have legs?
Say everything went wrong and they died at Syracuse instead. Was it worth it? Its a good risk.

There is only one reason to stop. Cohesion is low. Try to rest in an out of the way place, and make sure you cut rail while you are doing it. Sometimes I will deliberately kamikaze, like if I realize the Albany Depot is left unprotected. I know I will die there, but that's definitely worth it.

Just curious, with any of these strategies have you tried PBEM yet?

Because, you would make for a very fun partner to play!

Not yet. I'm working on an AAR as the North this weekend. I'll contact you next week about it.

See that is why I read these posts. OK, time to try some new strategies. Thank you for the ideas Jabberwock.

In BOA, the French Indians of Montcalm's scenario play a very similiar role of raiding throughout the American colonies. My counter is to use patrolling garrisons.

Typically I will have one or two militia regiments forming garrisons at each major strategic city. But they are not static garrisons. Each garrison is responsible for constantly patrolling the regions around their strategic point. The route of patrols focuses on the more likely approach routes of Indian bands.

Even against a human player, my patrolling garrisons will bump into those unseen raiding Indian bands and neutralize them. Usually in terms of casualties but also in terms of ammo supply reduction. In BOA, raiding parties cannot resupply without a friendly base. Yet your garrisions can easily and quickly refit from any damage as well as resupply ammo. Usually my patrols will win the battle against small Indian bands but even if your patrolling militia loses a battle against a large Indian band, the Indians have often lost the capability to continue with their raids.

I don't know if the patrolling garrisons would work in ACW but works very well in BOA.

In BOA, the French Indians of Montcalm's scenario play a very similiar role of raiding throughout the American colonies. My counter is to use patrolling garrisons.

Typically I will have one or two militia regiments forming garrisons at each major strategic city. But they are not static garrisons. Each garrison is responsible for constantly patrolling the regions around their strategic point. The route of patrols focuses on the more likely approach routes of Indian bands. Even against a human player, my patrolling garrisons will bump into those unseen raiding Indian bands and neutralize them. Usually in terms of casualties but also in terms of ammo supply reduction. Raiding parties, in BOA, cannot resupply without a friendly base. Yet your garrisions can quickly refit from losses as well as resupply ammo. Usually my patrols will win the battle against small Indian bands but even if your patrolling militia loses the battle against a large Indian band, the Indians have often either lost the capability to continue with their raids or you now have a location to send reinforcements.

I don't know if the patrolling garrisons would work in ACW but works very well in BOA.

In BOA, the French Indians of Montcalm's scenario play a very similiar role of raiding throughout the American colonies. My counter is to use patrolling garrisons.

Typically I will have one or two militia regiments forming garrisons at each major strategic city. But they are not static garrisons. Each garrison is responsible for constantly patrolling the regions around their strategic point. The route of patrols focuses on the more likely approach routes of Indian bands. Even against a human player, my patrolling garrisons will bump into those unseen raiding Indian bands and neutralize them. Usually in terms of casualties but also in terms of ammo supply reduction. Raiding parties, in BOA, cannot resupply without a friendly base. Yet your garrisions can quickly refit from losses as well as resupply ammo. Usually my patrols will win the battle against small Indian bands but even if your patrolling militia loses the battle against a larger Indian band, the Indians have often either lost the capability to continue with their raids or you now have a location to direct reinforcements.

I don't know if the patrolling garrisons would work in ACW but works very well in BOA.

In BOA, the French Indians of Montcalm's scenario play a very similiar role of raiding throughout the American colonies. My counter is to use patrolling garrisons.

Typically I will have one or two militia regiments forming garrisons at each major strategic city. But they are not static garrisons. Each garrison is responsible for constantly patrolling the regions around their strategic point. The route of patrols focuses on the more likely approach routes of Indian bands. Even against a human player, my patrolling garrisons will bump into those unseen raiding Indian bands and neutralize them. Usually in terms of casualties but also in terms of ammo supply reduction. Raiding parties, in BOA, cannot resupply without a friendly base. Yet your garrisions can quickly refit from losses as well as resupply ammo. Usually my patrols will win the battle against small Indian bands but even if your patrolling militia loses the battle against a larger Indian band, the Indians have often either lost the capability to continue with their raids or you now have a location to direct reinforcements against a weakened enemy.

I don't know if the patrolling garrisons would work in ACW but works very well in BOA.

In BOA, the French Indians of Montcalm's scenario play a very similiar role of raiding throughout the American colonies. My counter is to use patrolling garrisons.

Typically I will have one or two militia regiments forming garrisons at each major strategic city. But they are not static garrisons. Each garrison is responsible for constantly patrolling the regions around their strategic point. The route of patrols focuses on the more likely approach routes of Indian bands.

Even against a human player, my patrolling garrisons will bump into those unseen raiding Indian bands and neutralize them. Usually in terms of casualties but also in terms of ammo supply reduction. Raiding parties, in BOA, cannot resupply without a friendly base. Yet your garrisions can quickly refit from losses as well as resupply ammo. Usually my patrols will win the battle against small Indian bands but even if your patrolling militia loses the battle against a larger Indian band, the Indians have often either lost the capability to continue with their raids or you now have a location to direct reinforcements against a weakened enemy.

I don't know if the patrolling garrisons would work in ACW but works very well in BOA.