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I will be starting two threads, for players to discuss their favorite overall strategies with either side. This one is for the CSA. Needless to say, this refers mainly to the main campaign game covering the entire war. While the purpose of this thread is more to discuss GRAND strategy, feel free to discuss finer details as needed.

So, what do YOU do, to win as the CSA?

CWNut77 wrote:I will be starting two threads, for players to discuss their favorite overall strategies with either side. This one is for the CSA. Needless to say, this refers mainly to the main campaign game covering the entire war. While the purpose of this thread is more to discuss GRAND strategy, feel free to discuss finer details as needed.

So, what do YOU do, to win as the CSA?

My overall strategy is defensive.

I focus up on building a 4 corps size Army in northern Virginia, a 2-3 corps size Army in Tennessee, a 1 corps size Army in Arkansas, and a division size command force in Texas. I also build several division size command forces in the coastal regions to defend New Orleans, take Fort Pickens, and defend Norfolk, Fort Monroe, and the Shenandoah. Other smaller command forces, like a force of Native Americans contribute to taking over Missouri and the Great Plains region.

During the first year I use what is given to you and build a few additional forces to beef up the Army in Virginia. I also build up the command force in Texas. I build brigs each turn and stick in the Gulf shipping box (building 10-12throughout 1861). In Virginia I spread my force to protect the depots already in Virginia and by the fall of 1861 I start to besiege Ft. Monroe (I use Huger's force augmented with the Norfolk artillery, additional infantry builds and additional siege artillery builds). While building up the divisions to full strength I stay on the defense and wait for the Union to send a force in to Virginia or not. Nothing much happens in Tennesse, sometimes a few piece meal incursions by the Union, but I stay out of Kentucky and don't start building up forces in Tennessee until after the North invades Kentucky. I don't move for Missouri until 1862. I slowly build up a force in Fort Smith or Fayettevilly, hopefully getting Price in the game.

If I can get a division size force in Dallas by the end of the summer I'll take Laredo and the Southwest depending on how big a force the Union has in the SW.

In 1862 I defend again in Virginia although I try to take Harpers Ferry (if I haven't taken it in 1861). I defend the depots, i.e., HF, Manassas, Fredricksburg, and Richmond. I build a fort in Norfolk and Richmond. I continue to build up the AoNV to full strength.

I build 10 more brigs for the Atlantic box. Later in 1862 I start building additional ironclads to guard the Mississippi and and the Richmond area.

In Tennessee I fight any Union penetrations into southern Kentucky and I take Bowling Green and Paducah. I guard Paducah, Donelson, and Bowling Green (normally Clarksville the town/region west of Bowling Green too).

In Arkansas I build up the army (command force) and try to move on Springfield, Rolla, and Jefferson City. Sometimes I'm only in Springfield by fall of 1862, sometimes in Jefferson City and Rolla.

In 1863, if I haven't destroyed a Union army sent into Virginia in 1862 I attempt to draw out any Union force and take them on with an equal size fore or greater. I take Alexandria and defend it and move forces into Maryland or Pennsylvania through Harpers Ferry.

In Kentucky I go for Louisville and Lexington. In Missouri I go for St. Louis.

After that, if you hold the line, you'll win because Union morale will have gone down past its limit. Once in Alexandria, VA, they also seem to move their capitol and that's pretty much the game if you can just wait them out and hold your position.

I think it will be often possible to take Cairo with a decent force dependant which forces the Union will have there.Then I try to build Forts in Paducah and Cairo to prevent that the Union ship some forces along the Mississippi up to St.Louis.When I did this actions in Cairo and Paducah the Union often send divisionsized forces to Cairo besieging my garrison there but with the Fort and a strong garrison they give up soon enough.I have normally a brigadesized force inside and an independant force with around three brigades fortified outside the city.
Then I try to assemble a strong force to capture St.Louis with an assault and later fortify the city with a fort and a depot.At this time I got most of Missouri.
In Kentucky I try to capture Louisville and Lexington, later on I try to build an additional fort in Louisville to block the Union shipping.With holding a line from Winchester-Harpers Ferry-Manassas-Alexandria with division-strong garrisons
I only went on offensive action with my northern main army if either the union threaten my line or make some erratious failures so I can either threaten Baltimore or Harrisburg.
Around 1863 I have mostly a division stationed in Norfolk,Richmond,Charleston,Mobile,New Orleans and Dallas.
In the Northern Virginia area I have around 12 divisions stationed nearby Manassas in 4 corps á 3 divisions. In Kentucky I have an army with 3 corps á 2 divisions, the rest is diversed over Mississippi and Missouri each area with 3 divisions plus some independant forces.
Against the AI I was often able to deliver them some heavy blows in terms of losses.
Just my six pence...

greetings

Hohenlohe

Hohenlohe wrote:I think it will be often possible to take Cairo with a decent force dependant which forces the Union will have there.Then I try to build Forts in Paducah and Cairo to prevent that the Union ship some forces along the Mississippi up to St.Louis.When I did this actions in Cairo and Paducah the Union often send divisionsized forces to Cairo besieging my garrison there but with the Fort and a strong garrison they give up soon enough.I have normally a brigadesized force inside and an independant force with around three brigades fortified outside the city.
Then I try to assemble a strong force to capture St.Louis with an assault and later fortify the city with a fort and a depot.At this time I got most of Missouri.
In Kentucky I try to capture Louisville and Lexington, later on I try to build an additional fort in Louisville to block the Union shipping.With holding a line from Winchester-Harpers Ferry-Manassas-Alexandria with division-strong garrisons
I only went on offensive action with my northern main army if either the union threaten my line or make some erratious failures so I can either threaten Baltimore or Harrisburg.
Around 1863 I have mostly a division stationed in Norfolk,Richmond,Charleston,Mobile,New Orleans and Dallas.
In the Northern Virginia area I have around 12 divisions stationed nearby Manassas in 4 corps á 3 divisions. In Kentucky I have an army with 3 corps á 2 divisions, the rest is diversed over Mississippi and Missouri each area with 3 divisions plus some independant forces.
Against the AI I was often able to deliver them some heavy blows in terms of losses.
Just my six pence...

greetings

Hohenlohe

Yeah, I've done/do about the same thing. I've taken Cairo as well. I built a fort in Paducah only, I think. I also fortified St. Louis once I got. Later on in the game, i.e., 1863/1864 you have plenty of money and enough conscripts to build the required supply wagons and artillery for additional forts and depots in Kentucky and Missouri.

Good thoughts both -- but I doubt these strategies will work well (without adjustment) against a solid Union PBEM opponent...as my PBEM opponent has proven. A good Union opponent will not let you wait an entire year without attacking (thus limiting the build-up that was mentioned)...he may wait some time to build up himself, but not an entire year. I agree that the CSA should (and in many cases MUST) play defensively...but in the AACW game of "chicken" sometimes offensive measures must be taken, as I have learned all too well...

CWNut77 wrote:Good thoughts both -- but I doubt these strategies will work well (without adjustment) against a solid Union PBEM opponent...as my PBEM opponent has proven. A good Union opponent will not let you wait an entire year without attacking (thus limiting the build-up that was mentioned)...he may wait some time to build up himself, but not an entire year. I agree that the CSA should (and in many cases MUST) play defensively...but in the AACW game of "chicken" sometimes offensive measures must be taken, as I have learned all too well...

Yeah, I've never played a live opponent so I have no idea. AI is not too difficult to handle I think, although there are usually some surprise moves which are nice.

CWNut77 wrote:Good thoughts both -- but I doubt these strategies will work well (without adjustment) against a solid Union PBEM opponent...as my PBEM opponent has proven. A good Union opponent will not let you wait an entire year without attacking (thus limiting the build-up that was mentioned)...he may wait some time to build up himself, but not an entire year. I agree that the CSA should (and in many cases MUST) play defensively...but in the AACW game of "chicken" sometimes offensive measures must be taken, as I have learned all too well...

I've had a few 1861 fights, and the South can take on greater numbers and win. I try to avoid, and usually these happened by happenstance where I couldn't see them moving into the same region as me. Sometimes I've won, other times my guys make a tactical retreat.

CWNut77 wrote:Good thoughts both -- but I doubt these strategies will work well (without adjustment) against a solid Union PBEM opponent...as my PBEM opponent has proven. A good Union opponent will not let you wait an entire year without attacking (thus limiting the build-up that was mentioned)...he may wait some time to build up himself, but not an entire year. I agree that the CSA should (and in many cases MUST) play defensively...but in the AACW game of "chicken" sometimes offensive measures must be taken, as I have learned all too well...

A great point. I know as the Union player...especially in the west and along the coast, it is imperitave to start taking objectives right from the start. So keeping that in mind as a CSA PBEM'er is important.

If you've found yourself matched against a player that spends all of his time meticulously organizing his northern juggernaut...you will find yourself in a very favorable position I think.

Oh...and another thing. Doing all you can to gain recognition through FI is VERY important. It takes a little luck...but keeping the NM lead and holding key VP cities for as long as you possibly can really helps out alot.

VP's are pretty key too. As the South...if you can maintain the lead in VP's...you can still win at the end. Don't forget about that either.

By the way Banks -- I am actually taking the time to read your side of your AAR (since I barely ever played with the Union -- doing that for the first real time now in PBEM). It is very entertaining sir

My strategy with the South:
Create 2 strong armies in Virginia, with three and four corps each, always close to one another for mutual support in battle, to attack every lone USA corp and destroy it.
A strong Army in Tennessee, to free and hold Kentucky.
Capture Paducha and Cairo, bulid a fort on them and keep close to them a group of gunboats, to stop USA movements on main rivers. Then buld up a small army for a surprise attack to S.Louis.
In Arkansas use Indians and small forces, cavalry above all, and fight only skirmish battles.
In Texas hold a medium force, to hold the south part of the state and to be able to react to invasions from Tucson or Indian Terriories.
Creat a division in every capitol of your State, with militia and low-cost troops (small artillery and sharpshotters). During tha game there will be avaliable more free militia regiments, so is it possible to free some light infantry and other troops to renforce other parts of the front line.
The conquest of Ft. Monroe must be done as soon as possible, to ensure the stability of coastal defences in Virginia. Don't care about Ft. Pickens.. only encircle it with some militia from Mobile or Florida.
Build all the blockade runners avaliable, and hold them in the shipping lanes, the safest one is in the Mexican Gulf.
Remplacements: keep always 5 line infantry, 3 cavalry and 1 of each type, to ensure remplacements after bloody fight, or to renforce some divisions.
Don't care about Foreing Intervention: costs a lot and could arrive only in the final part of the game.

I use that strategy during the game, and I win every time

Tex Willer wrote:My strategy with the South:
Create 2 strong armies in Virginia, with three and four corps each, always close to one another for mutual support in battle, to attack every lone USA corp and destroy it.
A strong Army in Tennessee, to free and hold Kentucky.
Capture Paducha and Cairo, bulid a fort on them and keep close to them a group of gunboats, to stop USA movements on main rivers. Then buld up a small army for a surprise attack to S.Louis.
In Arkansas use Indians and small forces, cavalry above all, and fight only skirmish battles.
In Texas hold a medium force, to hold the south part of the state and to be able to react to invasions from Tucson or Indian Terriories.
Creat a division in every capitol of your State, with militia and low-cost troops (small artillery and sharpshotters). During tha game there will be avaliable more free militia regiments, so is it possible to free some light infantry and other troops to renforce other parts of the front line.
The conquest of Ft. Monroe must be done as soon as possible, to ensure the stability of coastal defences in Virginia. Don't care about Ft. Pickens.. only encircle it with some militia from Mobile or Florida.
Build all the blockade runners avaliable, and hold them in the shipping lanes, the safest one is in the Mexican Gulf.
Remplacements: keep always 5 line infantry, 3 cavalry and 1 of each type, to ensure remplacements after bloody fight, or to renforce some divisions.
Don't care about Foreing Intervention: costs a lot and could arrive only in the final part of the game.

I use that strategy during the game, and I win every time

Tex,

Who do you put in charge of your armies and corps?

Col D and Tex: And what is the Union doing all this time? Scrachin' and grinnin"? Playing CSA in 1861 Campaign (PBEM) game is like being in an old leaky house with lots of blue things thumpin" on the roof!! Don't have enough buckets to catch them all. You guys should try CSA in a PBEN game. Not now for me but when I finish this trouney then perhaps. Try Banks or Soundof! apy:

Colonel Dreux wrote:Tex,

Who do you put in charge of your armies and corps?

I put every three stars general that I have: the 2 Johnston, Beauregard, ecc...
Polk, after the battles for Paducha and Cairo, becomes soon a three star general.
At the command of corps I put every 2 stars general. Is not easy, but during the game they will be even more, after some victorious battles.
The management of those generals is an important key to victory

tagwyn wrote:Col D and Tex: And what is the Union doing all this time? Scrachin' and grinnin"? Playing CSA in 1861 Campaign (PBEM) game is like being in an old leaky house with lots of blue things thumpin" on the roof!! Don't have enough buckets to catch them all. You guys should try CSA in a PBEN game. Not now for me but when I finish this trouney then perhaps. Try Banks or Soundof! apy:

I always play the July 1861 campaign, because I think it's the better one
The USA troops don't launch a strong attack until early 1862, so I take the time to do some small conquest, like Bowling Green, Paducha, Harper's Ferry and Alexandria. Then I buy remplacements and build up more brigades.
In February 1862 one or two strong USA armies started their invasion of Virginia, but I don't care about them. I let them take small towns, and I attack them only when one of my armies find an isolated USA corp. We attack and destroy them, and then go a great town to take remplacements

I think that the best strategy for the CSA is the napoleonic one: if you are outnumbered, fight every enemy separately, for an overwhelming attack in a small part of the map.

tagwyn wrote:Col D and Tex: And what is the Union doing all this time? Scrachin' and grinnin"? Playing CSA in 1861 Campaign (PBEM) game is like being in an old leaky house with lots of blue things thumpin" on the roof!! Don't have enough buckets to catch them all. You guys should try CSA in a PBEN game. Not now for me but when I finish this trouney then perhaps. Try Banks or Soundof! apy:

Oh, I'm sure it is. The AI attacks way too often in small numbers early on in the game, except for the occasional large army coming into Virginia. That normally doesn't happen until 1862, however. If the North were to ever consolidate it's forces and just moves slowly down the map, particularly in the West, I don't see how I could stop them... particularly a good amphibious assault somewhere.

What I like about the AI is it does something different every game (sometimes doing some very interesting things - like attacking through North Carolina or something), but never goes for the throat.

Tex Willer wrote:I think that the best strategy for the CSA is the napoleonic one: if you are outnumbered, fight every enemy separately, for an overwhelming attack in a small part of the map.

That's my strategy. I basically play they way James Longstreet thought the South should conduct the War, with a bit of T.J. Jackson's and Robert E. Lee's, find a smaller force and hit it as hard as you can, mixed in.

I've now played two PBEM games as the CSA, both against Redeemer. I've gotten my butt kicked both times (the second one is still going on).

I followed the same strategy both times - the one Tex and Dreux are advocating. Build up the Virginia army first, then the Tennessee one. Try to hold a toehold in Missouri. Threaten the west. Squash any amphibious operations as soon as possible. Redeemer answered both times with carefully planned outflanking maneuvers that cut my guys off or drove me back on my supply lines. Whenever I would fight, I would find myself running out of troops. I would do a new call for volunteers or draft, buy ten infantry replacements, next turn they're all gone, buy ten more, repeat until done. Ultimately, the Union will wear you down. If I survive into 1865 in my current game I'll consider it a victory.

I think the next time I play I will use the option that prevents units from moving without an activated leader. That will slow the Yankees down considerably...

I have only had the game since Jan 2009 and am still playing my first campaign as the CSA. Love the game, but it was a bear to learn the basic mechanics of the game (approx 4-5 weeks) so my Grand Campaign CSA game has been going on for approx 3 months.

I learned more as I was playing the game (from reading all the great threads and AAR's here) and generally tried first to create the Army of Northern Virginia and Army of Tennessee. ANV with three Corps, Army of Tennessee with two Corps. After they were built I tried to create the Army of Shenendoah and Army in Trans Mississippi in Missouri (with two Corp each).

I played the first year (1861) just on defensive but did push to take Norfolk and the Penninsula forts. I managed to beat off several Union assaults in Virginia and the AI seemed to get timid so by 1862 I managed to take Washington and the Valley up to Maryland. Army of Tennessee took Kentucky after the Union invaded, and Army in Missouri managed to take St Louis.

By late 1862 the AI seemed to regain its breath and started to make Amphibious landings from the big Union Navy Fort (Pickins? by Alabama??). It also would dive down from Ohio into Kentucky and Tennessee and swept down into Arkansas and Texas, but seemed to not supply them. I had to bite my nails for several turns (4-5) until I could get reinforcements to the areas, contain the incursions, and then beat up the Unon Army or Corps.

I also constantly built up my RR and riverine transport to help in supply distrubiton and to help in moving around my troops. I pushed to the max for volunteers and recruitment, printing $$, but of course saw the inflation rate go up. Also built approx 18-20 brigs to bring in supply and $$ from navy boxes, and built some gunboats and Ironclads to protect the Mississippi river.

I usually did not spend $$ or manpower on buying Supply Wagons cause they cost too much. I tried to capture Union Wagons (which seemed to happen a lot, as the AI just let them roll forward by themselves). I didnt know until halfway into my game about building river transports to build Supply Depots and just found out you can do the same with ocean transports?? A major headache was not so much raising troops, as having to spend the money to build Depots to get supplies forward so the troops wouldnt starve or be without ammo.

From 1863 on I just tried to have enough replacements to flesh out the bled out units and let the AI come at me. I managed to get my favorite CSA General Patrick Cleburne promoted to Corp commander in Army of Tennessee, only to have him stomped on by two Union Corp, lose half of his men (he was two regions away from his supporting Corp and Army command) and get "blamed" for a major defeat and lose some ground.....At least he survived. Hahaha.

The rest of 1863 and 1864 were pretty mild....I kept having to replace loses....and finally attacked Baltimore in mid 1864 with ANV....taking 30,000 in losses.....That hurt, but then Union landed two corps in Virginia, retook Norfolk, adn threatened Richmond......Needless to say, this game throws some curves at you and keeps you on your toes.

I am almost finished with my first campaign and will win it just by sitting in my trenches, but next time will try the game on very hard to see just how difficult it will really be. I must admit that being my first game I had it on Easy so I could learn it, but still found it very entertaining to see the AI do some surprising things. I will play one more game as CSA, then try one as USA, and then take on a PBEM and get my butt kicked.

KGLorberau

By the way....I read that you were all talking about building forts?? Where did I miss that info in the book. How do you do it?? What benifits are forts vs just cities / towns? What do they cost? Are they the same as building Depots but instead of Depots you build Forts??

Thanks for any info.

KgLorberau

I've never been able to figure out the Fort thing myself.. have Cannon and Supply available.. but the button would never be active

Wait for the Yankees to advance, fall on their supply lines (RR or river), force them to attack you to avoid starving and running out of bullets. Takes a lot of cavalry to screen your movements and to tear up their RR, and some aggressive army/corps commanders to reinforce each other in the big fights, but as a general gameplan this hasn't failed me yet.

cmurphy625 wrote:I've never been able to figure out the Fort thing myself.. have Cannon and Supply available.. but the button would never be active

I'm pretty sure these are the requirements to build a fort.

4 artillery elements
2 supply elements
Something like 75%+ military control
And an active leader of course

Also the artillery and supply need to be a full health

slimey.rock wrote:I'm pretty sure these are the requirements to build a fort.

4 artillery elements
2 supply elements
Something like 75%+ military control
And an active leader of course

Also the artillery and supply need to be a full health

You don't need a leader at all to build a fort (or depot). Supply requirement varies with the version; it used to be 2 supply units of any type (not elements). With the new version it now requires 4 supply elements. (This is how it works with depots anyway, I am assuming the change also applies to forts.)

I've never bothered much with forts as the cost seems high and a good (human) opponent will just go around them in some manner anyway. I usually only put them in places you know you will need to fight for such as Richmond, Chattanooga, Mobile, etc.

mikee64 wrote:You don't need a leader at all to build a fort (or depot).

Sorry, I meant that if you have a leader controlling the stack, he has to be active. An inactive leader can't create or destroy depots/forts.

And yes, the requirements I gave are for 1.13b. I'm not sure what they are with the new beta patch.

mikee64 wrote:I've never bothered much with forts as the cost seems high and a good (human) opponent will just go around them in some manner anyway. I usually only put them in places you know you will need to fight for such as Richmond, Chattanooga, Mobile, etc.

Pretty much agree. But remember that forts create a massive Zone of Control value, which makes it harder to go around them.

Maybe I was missing the leader!

Chaplain Lovejoy wrote:Pretty much agree. But remember that forts create a massive Zone of Control value, which makes it harder to go around them.

They also have extremely low frontage values so a small force can defend against a much larger one.

cmurphy625 wrote:Maybe I was missing the leader!

You don't have to have a leader to create a fort. I was saying, if you do have a leader, he has to be active. Sorry for the confusion

And that massive ZOC forts generate also means they maintain a respectable amount of MC of the region should you decide to releive the troops inside.

Key being....with 5% or more MC in a region...you can move in on "defensive posture"....this makes things very interesting in seige situations....because then you get into a MC war with your opponent.

Makes for some potentially large siege fights once one side or the other is automatically switch over to offensive posture.