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298 USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock $Fast_Mover $Charismatic NULL NULL 5 5 1 9 General 1 NULL 5 4 5

273 USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock2 $Fast_Mover $Charismatic NULL NULL 5 5 2 18 General 1 NULL 5 4 5

Would anybody object to creating a Hancock3 and giving the player the option of promoting Hancock?

options for traits:

irregular fighter? Saw- Seminole War, Mormon War, Bleeding Kansas...

master logician- exp quartermaster

ratings-

while not on the offensive many times, he was successful in the limited opportunities (ft magruder and spotsylvania)... should he have a 5 in att?

Well, 5 for "offense" would put Hancock on on par with Jackson....I'm not sure that I can vote for that. Personally, I think the numbers are good the way they are.

However, I do agree that it would be worthwhile to give him an Army commander entry. That said, using the same arguments I made in the Reynolds thread, I think the ratings would have to be dropped a bit. Maybe 5/3/4. Additionally, I would remove the "Fast_Mover" trait as an Army commander....that would be difficult for any Federal commander.

Agree

5= Superb commander. I suggest we keep this for Generals having demonstrate uncontested skills.

4= Very Good Commander. Lincoln would have been happy with only level 4 generals

ok... so then thats:

298 USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock $Fast_Mover $Charismatic NULL NULL 5 5 1 9 General 1 NULL 5 4 5

273 USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock2 $Fast_Mover $Charismatic NULL NULL 5 5 2 18 General 1 NULL 5 4 5

USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock3 $Charismatic NULL NULL 5 5 2 18 General 1 NULL 5 4 5

all ratings left the same, right?

Was Hancock better than Reynolds (5-4-4) in your opinion?

on par with each other imho. problem is that reynolds died at g-burg, while wsh held cemetary ridge, and is more recognizable today because of it

i do think tho, that based upon wsh's work at the chan-ville and g-burg we can justify a 5 def. rating.

on an aside, i think you have the following as the top union cmders- grant, sherman, thomas, sheridan, hancock, reynolds

OK, we'll smooth the whole in the end:

[color="SeaGreen"]298 USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock $Fast_Mover $Charismatic NULL NULL 5 5 1 9 General 1 NULL 5 4 5

273 USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock2 $Fast_Mover $Charismatic NULL NULL 5 5 2 18 General 1 NULL 5 4 5

USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock3 $Charismatic NULL NULL 5 5 2 18 General 1 NULL 5 4 5[/color]

Validate

Ah now that the thread is unlocked, I can argue the Charismatic issue. Why is Hancock Charismatic?

If we want to reduce the number of Charismatic leaders in the game, we need to differentiate between the truly extraordinarily Charismatic leaders like Lee or McClellan, and the merely respected leaders like Hancock and Reynolds.

If simply giving him a 5-4-5 score isn't enough respect for Hancock, maybe he would be eligible for the Gifted_Cmd trait instead (or Good_Cmd).

And why is Hancock a fast mover at division and corps? Examples?

i couldn't figure out the fast mover trait either...

we could make hancock good adm army.... but according to Larry Tagg "No other Union general at Gettysburg dominated men by the sheer force of their presence more completely than Hancock". Granted thats only one battle, but it was certainly was the biggest stage.

I would also suggest adding good admin cmd in place of fast mover, and leaving the ratings the same.

Any thoughts?

I propose:

298 USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock $Gifted_Cmd NULL NULL NULL NULL 5 5 1 9 General 1 NULL 5 4 5

273 USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock2 $Gifted_Cmd NULL NULL NULL NULL 5 5 2 18 General 1 NULL 5 4 5

USA Winfield S. Hancock ldr_USA_Hancock3 $Gifted_Cmd NULL NULL NULL NULL 5 5 2 18 General 1 NULL 5 4 5

This would make him one of the top 5 Union Generals. Fair enough. I'm just wondering if we should not lower him at division level (4-3-4), just like we did for other Union generals?

no objections to the ratings, or lower as a div commander

frank7350 wrote:no objections to the ratings, or lower as a div commander

agreed