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251 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon3 $Charismatic NULL NULL NULL 6 0 3 22 General 1 NULL 6 4 4

268 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon2 $Charismatic NULL NULL NULL 6 0 2 13 General 1 NULL 5 4 4

293 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon $Charismatic NULL NULL NULL 5 0 1 4 General 1 NULL 5 4 4

Wow. Where to start?

The name is misspelled. I spelled it correctly, Nathaniel, in the heading.

Charismatic, and 5-4-4 up to Army command!? Somebody at AGEOD must be a decendant of this man. Here we have a Brigadier who fought one battle, which he lost at Wilson's Creek, and was killed. His plan of attack was to split up his force into three parts and attack a Confederate force about twice the size of his. Didn't work out so well. His attack was rash and too complicated. To his credit, he did gain tactical suprise at Wilson's Creek. I see no mention of his being particularly Charismatic.

Here are my new suggested stats.

268 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon2 $Supriser $Reckless NULL NULL 6 0 2 13 General 1 NULL 3 2 3

293 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon $Supriser $Reckless NULL NULL 5 0 1 4 General 1 NULL 4 3 3

No promotion possible to army command.

I have to disagree somewhat. The guy kept Missouri in the Union. When the pro-confederate governor refused to provide troops to put down the rebellion Lyon raised them himself. He even disguised himself as a woman to spy on and capture a force of state militia planning to seize the federal arsenal in St. Louis. He then captured the state capital and installed a pro-union government. He won several smaller battles before his defeat at Wilson's Creek. He was the most active union commander of the early war. I think his strategic rating should be 5 or possibly 6. I think hothead fits him better than reckless but either is good. I'd add training officer as well. I don't have a problem with an army command for him. If he had survived Wilson's creek he would've been called a hero despite the loss. Few union generals were showing much promise or initiative at that time.

Okay, so maybe his strategic rating should be high, but I am unimpressed with his tactical abilities.

I tend to agree with Chris on that one, and the reason I made him eligible for army command comes from the fact that, at many points during the war, Lincoln was looking for agressive-minded CO's to lead the Union armies...and failed to find a suitable guy for quite some months...

I guess that if the guy had survived, he would probably have made it...be it only from political pressure...which is a key factor in our game.

And no, no family ties with the guy, despite the fact his name is the same as the French city where Pocus lives...

Well in most of the other older ACW games Lyon got high numbers. By reading about him on wiki I didn't find out why.
Maybe a bad spy because he attacked force double his size.

BTW, maybe we should give him crossdresser trait . After he dresses as a woman he gets master spy
Just jokeing

By the spring of 1861, Lyon had subdued all the hostile sections of the state.

From http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/search/search.php?searchtext=lyon&enc=29273

Maybe occupier?

PhilThib wrote:no family ties with the guy, despite the fact his name is the same as the French city where Pocus lives...

Yeah, that's why I asked Paris Hilton to be included in the OOB...

New proposition:

251 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon3 $Occupier $Hothead $Training_Officer NULL 15 20 3 22 General 1 NULL 5 3 4

268 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon2 $Occupier $Hothead $Training_Officer NULL 10 10 2 13 General 1 NULL 5 3 4

293 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon $Occupier $Hothead $Training_Officer NULL 5 0 1 4 General 1 NULL 5 3 4

He would switch his offensive and defensive ratings. He was always the aggressor.

once again, i agree with chris. otherwise, looks good to me.

Chris0827 wrote:He would switch his offensive and defensive ratings. He was always the aggressor.

Strat rating shows his agressivness. If you wish to attack with him, with a strat rating of 5, you are very likely to be able to...

Attack shows how good he was at agression... ie: he will just give you a correct bonus.

Is this clearer?

Korrigan

but the att/def values deal with their ability at each, right? if thats the case, i'd still say to switch them...

Korrigan wrote:Strat rating shows his agressivness. If you wish to attack with him, with a strat rating of 5, you are very likely to be able to...

Attack shows how good he was at agression... ie: he will just give you a correct bonus.

Is this clearer?

Korrigan

Because of his early death we never got to see him as the defender in a battle. The few he fought were as the attacker. Since we are pretty much guessing how he would do had he lived I thought his offensive rating should be higher. He won several small battles and was initially successful against a force twice his size at Wilson's Creek. He showed some skill as an attacker.

OK, new proposition would be:

251 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon3 $Occupier $Hothead $Training_Officer NULL 15 20 3 22 General 1 NULL 5 4 3

268 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon2 $Occupier $Hothead $Training_Officer NULL 10 10 2 13 General 1 NULL 5 4 3

293 USA Nathanael Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon $Occupier $Hothead $Training_Officer NULL 5 0 1 4 General 1 NULL 5 4 3

Comments?

fine by me

*shrug* As unwise as I think his attack at Wilson's Creek was, the man did have some ability nonetheless.

251 USA Nathaniel Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon3 $Charismatic $Occupier NULL NULL 6 0 3 22 General 1 NULL 4 2 2
268 USA Nathaniel Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon2 $Charismatic $Occupier $Hothead NULL 6 0 2 13 General 1 NULL 5 2 2
293 USA Nathaniel Lyon ldr_USA_Lyon $Charismatic $Occupier $Hothead NULL 5 0 1 4 General 1 NULL 5 2 2

Rational: Found references to his charism, no reference made to training abilities.
Ratings: Above average Att/Def + Superior strategic agressivity.

I would say Lyon had great promise as a commander. He definately was a fighter. He singlehandedly kept Missouri in the Union. As far as splitting his forced to attack a larger force, another General, Robert E. Lee had a tendancy of doing much the same thing. I hope you guys give Lyon some good stats. He was a good organizer, able to manage limited supply, was aggressive, charismatic, and knew how to manouver. It is important to remember, that although out numbered 2-1 at Wilsons Creek, he kept his little army fighting. It was only when he was killed that the Union broke down. Wilsons Creek was one of the more nastier battles of the war...see casualties vs. numbers involved.

Then I would add 'Master_Logisitician' (at the divisional level?) to represent his ability to work with limited supply (and this can be useful in the West).

Due to the fact he will appear in the game via event, and that his opponent (Sterling Price) too, I think their should be a consideration made to those two guys fighting each other and to give Lyon an edge (where Price should get the superior numbers in troops strengths)...so we can have something close to the Wilson Creek result.