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So check this out. Here is a battle where, based on the orders from each side, neither side wanted a battle. The forces for both sides began in Harpers Ferry in Defensive Posture (one force in the city was set for defend at all cost, the others just normal). But the MC caused the USA forces to change to offensive posture resulting in the following 10 day battle with almost 101k of casualties from starting forces of 140k (72% casualties) leure:

And note that, after all that, in the 10th day of battle, no one has yet retreated

I've been to Harper's Ferry in the fall. It's beautiful! That's why everyone wanted it so badly over those ten days.

I know--not helpful. But it really is a nice place to visit, albeit touristy.

Chaplain Lovejoy wrote:I've been to Harper's Ferry in the fall. It's beautiful! That's why everyone wanted it so badly over those ten days.

I know--not helpful. But it really is a nice place to visit, albeit touristy.

I hope to hike through it as I do the AT someday!

LOL! My first PBEM is making headlines!

CWNut77 wrote:LOL! My first PBEM is making headlines!

Quite a game it is too!

AndrewKurtz wrote:Quite a game it is too!

I am honored sir (meaning I take that as a compliment) -- you are quite the opponent as well!

This is a first to see for me. That would have been interesting to watch as the turn played out, especially as the Union.

Aye, a valiant defense that unfortunately drained my ammunition to nil...

Franklin was a cautious General who would have retreated the end of the 1st day...his claim to fame was getting captured by raiders in 1864 on a train near Baltimore while riding back to his home in Maine.

See his biography here

Doomwalker wrote:This is a first to see for me. That would have been interesting to watch as the turn played out, especially as the Union.

Oh yeah! As the turn ran, I kept yelling at the PC "retreat!!!", but my bit-men wouldn't listen.

I should like to point out that this battle was fought in some rather harsh winter weather, which no doubt had its effect. Retreat may not have been an option, whereas confusion probably overtook the force at some point.

CWNut77 wrote:I should like to point out that this battle was fought in some rather harsh winter weather, which no doubt had its effect. Retreat may not have been an option, whereas confusion probably overtook the force at some point.

Well with their backs to a river I'd say retreat was almost impossible. Not a good place to fight defensively. Truly the most amazing battle in history.

No generals died in this?

Roger B wrote:Well with their backs to a river I'd say retreat was almost impossible. Not a good place to fight defensively. Truly the most amazing battle in history.

No generals died in this?

Backs to the river, and the river was frozen!!! That explains it completely!

And no, no personnel casualties.

Will this go down as the single greatest battle EVER in AACW?

CWNut77 wrote:Backs to the river, and the river was frozen!!! That explains it completely!

And no, no personnel casualties.

Will this go down as the single greatest battle EVER in AACW?

I now have to rethink my position but I'm on the offensive attacking Jackson in Winchester with two corps and over 80,000 men to his one corps. If I lose the battle I better get my arse across river not stay in HF to long. Oh, its winter as well.

I'm glad I'm playing the computer and not one of you guys. Lee would be sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom right now.

Roger B wrote:I now have to rethink my position but I'm on the offensive attacking Jackson in Winchester with two corps and over 80,000 men to his one corps. If I lose the battle I better get my arse across river not stay in HF to long. Oh, its winter as well.

I'm glad I'm playing the computer and not one of you guys. Lee would be sleeping in the Lincoln bedroom right now.

Ahh, but PBEM is where it's at my friend. This is my FIRST PBEM game, and I have almost completely learned the fundamentals of the game within it. I have made MANY mistakes, but stuck with it and it has thus far proven to be a great experience for both of us. Don't say you wouldn't do well, as you would learn from your mistakes and probably present a greater challenge than you would think.

IIRC, there were times at Petersburg (and Cold Harbor?) where the soliders decided for themselves not to obey orders, or just to fake half-hearted attacks, no matter the specified "ROE". (Sort of like French Army and Russian Army mutinies circa 1917?)

As just one way to mute battle casualties, AACW should reflect that self-preservation behavior (even if abstracted deep within the AI and basic battle mechanics code).

berto wrote:IIRC, there were times at Petersburg (and Cold Harbor?) where the soliders decided for themselves not to obey orders, or just to fake half-hearted attacks, no matter the specified "ROE". (Sort of like French Army mutinies circa 1917?)

As just one way to mute battle casualties, AACW should reflect that self-preservation behavior (even if abstracted deep within the AI and basic battle mechanics code).

You may be thinking of the Battle of Lookout Mountain (Battle of Chattanooga), where George Thomas's Union soldiers totally took it upon themselves to charge uphill and take a position, without orders.

I know there were other moments in the war like this, but I believe this is the most well-known.

CWNut77 wrote:You may be thinking of the Battle of Lookout Mountain [sic] (Battle of Chattanooga), where George Thomas's Union soldiers totally took it upon themselves to charge uphill and take a position, without orders.

I know there were other moments in the war like this, but I believe this is the most well-known.

Well, yes of course I know about that (perhaps my most favorite moment in the entire ACW--Spielberg should make a movie about Missionary Ridge, really!), but I was thinking of mutinous inactions in the opposite fashion.

CWNut77 wrote:Ahh, but PBEM is where it's at my friend. This is my FIRST PBEM game, and I have almost completely learned the fundamentals of the game within it. I have made MANY mistakes, but stuck with it and it has thus far proven to be a great experience for both of us. Don't say you wouldn't do well, as you would learn from your mistakes and probably present a greater challenge than you would think.

I hope to do a PBEM sometime but right now I'm still trying to get the grasp of the basics of the game (I've sent whole corps in different direction and the general I wanted to command in another). Just saying right now the computer is probably a better opponent and its kicking my butt.

Roger B wrote:I hope to do a PBEM sometime but right now I'm still trying to get the grasp of the basics of the game (I've sent whole corps in different direction and the general I wanted to command in another). Just saying right now the computer is probably a better opponent and its kicking my butt.

Yes, but the AI (or Athena as we call her) cannot point out your missteps or give advice. I still see your point none the less...whatever works best for you

If you ever need an opponent...;-)

AndrewKurtz wrote:Oh yeah! As the turn ran, I kept yelling at the PC "retreat!!!", but my bit-men wouldn't listen.

I do believe I would have been yelling at it also. Not too sure if it would have been "retreat" though. I imagine that I would have had a few choice explatives for it.

Doomwalker wrote:I do believe I would have been yelling at it also. Not too sure if it would have been "retreat" though. I imagine that I would have had a few choice explatives for it.

LOL. There were MANY explatives around the word retreat. And you should have heard me when I saw the 30 point NM swing because of that battle.

I don't think the weather had any impact on the decision to retreat or not retreat. The Union kept attacking for 10 straight turns and then after turn 10 decided to stop. From what Pocus told me after reviewing, the Union troops became fanatical, which is probably OK for one battle, but not for 10 straight days. We'll see some routing changes in the next patch I believe

AndrewKurtz wrote:LOL. There were MANY explatives around the word retreat. And you should have heard me when I saw the 30 point NM swing because of that battle.

I don't think the weather had any impact on the decision to retreat or not retreat. The Union kept attacking for 10 straight turns and then after turn 10 decided to stop. From what Pocus told me after reviewing, the Union troops became fanatical, which is probably OK for one battle, but not for 10 straight days. We'll see some routing changes in the next patch I believe

Ouch, yeah the 30 NM loss would have probably bothered me more than the loss of the troops. I can usually replace troop losses easier than I can run my NM back up.

This sequence of screenshots still amaze me ever time I look at them.

Did this end your game, or is it still an ongoing fight?

Doomwalker wrote:Did this end your game, or is it still an ongoing fight?

The fight continues...

AndrewKurtz wrote:The fight continues...

Aye, it does continue, I am his opponent.

We have BOTH stuck through this PBEM through thick and thin -- Andy here has become quite the respectable opponent, and has helped me see the true depth of AACW

SO, an update...

I do not have a screen shot to show, but thought I'd offer a quick description regarding how the tide almost turned. I moved across the river north of Nashville, TN, with a good chunk of the Army of Tennessee (about 25,000 strong) against the Union force in Bowling Greene under McClellan. The result was the annihilation of my force (those that didn't succumb to the casualty list surrendered outright), and the end result was an expensive lesson for yours truly -- attacks across a river in the end of winter, against a well-entrenched force, is suicidal. I was banking on the fact that I was attacking McClellan, and the leadership rolls would go in my favor...but I forgot that I had no real retreat path as well, and learned the hard way that entrenchments are just as suitable for the Union as they are for the CSA! It was a bold move that cost me probably the war in the West. Lee and two or three other generals were wounded (using Lee to such disgrace added insult to injury), and it seems only a matter of time before Island # 10 will fall. The remaining corps of Lee's army is still sitting in Nashville, but we'll see if I can hold onto that. My troops in Missouri are holding on, but my want for supply out there is pretty huge. In the East I am doing better, though things are also starting to take shape in that region that hold a degree of uncertainty. At least this is all happening in March 1863 and I have held my own until then

Anyway, I am still ahead in NM and VP, but I am wondering if that will be the case by summertime. I posted this as a classic example of how the tide can shift in this game -- this time due to a major error on my part -- and that it is always best to stick with it to the last.

And Andrew -- I know you're reading this and I may have disclosed something for my part...but I have no doubt you knew these things already

CWNut77 wrote:SO, an update...

I do not have a screen shot to show, but thought I'd offer a quick description regarding how the tide almost turned. I moved across the river north of Nashville, TN, with a good chunk of the Army of Tennessee (about 25,000 strong) against the Union force in Bowling Greene under McClellan. The result was the annihilation of my force (those that didn't succumb to the casualty list surrendered outright)...[snip]

That stings. Hmm, maybe I'll take you up on that PBEM game sometime.

Roger B wrote:That stings. Hmm, maybe I'll take you up on that PBEM game sometime.

LOL! Sure -- but remember what happened to both sides after Bull Run! I will mature from this experience