AGEOD Forums

How is possible give the disembark command before arrive near the landing location similarly to command present in WIA or ROP? Actually I must wait my fleet arrive frontally to beach and after move the troops, give to defender a turn of preparation.

AFAIK, that's it. Recent changes restrict the offload to one (1) Unit only, so what I do is make sure I have a 400+ knuckle-buster in the fleet (typically, New Orleans is my first amphibious offload). It takes five (5) days to offload. I've been lucky and my desired Unit has always been Active (wait a minute, the code/rules make it Active, not so?) , so I usually select Assault/AllOut and capture N. O. right away.

Turn A - arrive at The Beach.

Turn B - offload & attack.

Turn C - park fleet in newly captured port.

Turn D - commence operations with ground forces.

While you can only put one leader on the beach, you can then put everyone else in his stack. So you can unload the whole army in turn one.

But waiting a turn is the pits.

Mitra wrote:How is possible give the disembark command before arrive near the landing location similarly to command present in WIA or ROP? Actually I must wait my fleet arrive frontally to beach and after move the troops, give to defender a turn of preparation.

There is no disembark command similar to WIA or ROP. As explained in other posts you have to move your fleet next to the place you want to attack and then, the following turn, disembark.

If you want to avoid ennemy defensive move, try to lure him with other threathening moves.

Ol' Choctaw wrote:While you can only put one leader on the beach, you can then put everyone else in his stack. So you can unload the whole army in turn one.

But waiting a turn is the pits.

???

OK, I play nothing but "1.16" now and have for a while.

You have one Tab - that is the fleet's tab. The tab has the Naval Leader(s), Naval Units (i. e., "boxes"), Army Leaders (more separate boxes) and some Army units (yet more boxes).

Try it - AFAIK, you cannot select more than one box (i. e., Unit) from the fleet's Tab. You used to be able to select more than one and the entire ground force, if desired, but, IIRC, this was changed and you cannot do this anymore, and I think it has been this way since 1.15 and maybe 1.14.

Only one Unit can hit the beach per turn. You must control the port to disembark the land troops and leaders all at once - in the port.

I'm not talking about river crossings - I'm talkng about a landing.

GraniteStater wrote:???

OK, I play nothing but "1.16" now and have for a while.

You have one Tab - that is the fleet's tab. The tab has the Naval Leader(s), Naval Units (i. e., "boxes"), Army Leaders (more separate boxes) and some Army units (yet more boxes).

Try it - AFAIK, you cannot select more than one box (i. e., Unit) from the fleet's Tab. You used to be able to select more than one and the entire ground force, if desired, but, IIRC, this was changed and you cannot do this anymore, and I think it has been this way since 1.15 and maybe 1.14.

Only one Unit can hit the beach per turn. You must control the port to disembark the land troops and leaders all at once - in the port.

I'm not talking about river crossings - I'm talkng about a landing.

I am using 1.15.

I can only select one man to put ashore, but after he has a tab you can select multiple units and put them into his tab.

To select multiple units, just do it the same as placing them into a division using the control-click. Then you have to drag and drop them into the tab.

It is nearly useless to only be able to land one unit per turn until you can take a port.

GraniteStater wrote:AFAIK, that's it. Recent changes restrict the offload to one (1) Unit only, so what I do is make sure I have a 400+ knuckle-buster in the fleet (typically, New Orleans is my first amphibious offload). It takes five (5) days to offload. I've been lucky and my desired Unit has always been Active (wait a minute, the code/rules make it Active, not so?) , so I usually select Assault/AllOut and capture N. O. right away.

Turn A - arrive at The Beach.

Turn B - offload & attack.

Turn C - park fleet in newly captured port.

Turn D - commence operations with ground forces.

Not sure if it changes in 1.16, but I have only ever played 1.15 and have always been able to unload all land units at once. I ctrl+click them all and click on the beach, and viola! My complaint is only being able to debark a single stack from each shipping stack; they may have boarded as 2 corps, but they're coming off as 1. In cases where I need multiple stacks to avoid a CP penalty (such as the Invasion of Britain), I use multiple fleet stacks, each carrying 1 corps.

Well, mebbe it's 1.16, mebbe it's me reading a Change doc too literally, but I seem to recall that the restriction (if WAD) was put in on purpose, precisely to restrict easy landings.

But it's not excessive - the AI doesn't seem to garrison 'beaches' in great strength. I've been taking N. O. this way since before Christmas. It is a little more true to form - all they had was small open craft and lighters, unless a wharf was available.

Three brigades, 7,500 men, let's say? That would take forever in the 1860s.

I'm playing with version 1.16 rc4a and landing is working as in 1.15 : see post of Cromagnonman above for an explanation on how to unlaod all units at once

Looks like I drew the wrong conclusions. If you can do it, fine - but, for historical purposes, I'll probably eschew the method, at least against the AI.

P. Cleburne would be another matter altogether

GraniteStater wrote:Looks like I drew the wrong conclusions. If you can do it, fine - but, for historical purposes, I'll probably eschew the method, at least against the AI.

P. Cleburne would be another matter altogether

Yeah, just control+click and you can move all the land units off at once. I don't see any reason why it should take more than 2 weeks to disembark an army.

Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne wrote:Yeah, just control+click and you can move all the land units off at once. I don't see any reason why it should take more than 2 weeks to disembark an army.

Yeah, it's a good illustration of the limits of modelling RL. Five days to unload a strong 400+ Civil War 'division', call it three Regmts per Bde, three Bdes per Div (approx RL ACW weights): 9,000 men plus all their junk - about right, I would hazard, maybe even a little quick; open skiff with 30 men (at the very most), horses are a huge chore, one skiff round trip takes an hour, throw in no night movements for it - could take a week, just for nine 1,000 man Regmts, might be lucky to have a hundred boats for the operation.

Any such operation before the 1940s was a nightmare, basically. Gallipolli in 1915 was still 19th century, really. Scott in Vera Cruz in 1847 was close to two weeks for about 12,000+ troops, IIRC.

IMHO, my imagined 'rule' is not far off - essentially, proper wharfage is an immense fundamental difference.

Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne wrote:Yeah, just control+click and you can move all the land units off at once. I don't see any reason why it should take more than 2 weeks to disembark an army.

Same reason it takes 2 days to get from DC to Baltimore by rail

GraniteStater wrote:Yeah, it's a good illustration of the limits of modelling RL. Five days to unload a strong 400+ Civil War 'division', call it three Regmts per Bde, three Bdes per Div (approx RL ACW weights): 9,000 men plus all their junk - about right, I would hazard, maybe even a little quick; open skiff with 30 men (at the very most), horses are a huge chore, one skiff round trip takes an hour, throw in no night movements for it - could take a week, just for nine 1,000 man Regmts, might be lucky to have a hundred boats for the operation.

IMHO, my imagined 'rule' is not far off - essentially, proper wharfage is an immense fundamental difference.

I am not aware of any major amphibious assaults during the war, but there were several amphibious operations. The best picture I can get is of the North Carolina Expedition, where Burnside was able to debark his 13 regiments in about 6 hours before New Bern.

GraniteStater wrote:Yeah, it's a good illustration of the limits of modelling RL. Five days to unload a strong 400+ Civil War 'division', call it three Regmts per Bde, three Bdes per Div (approx RL ACW weights): 9,000 men plus all their junk - about right, I would hazard, maybe even a little quick; open skiff with 30 men (at the very most), horses are a huge chore, one skiff round trip takes an hour, throw in no night movements for it - could take a week, just for nine 1,000 man Regmts, might be lucky to have a hundred boats for the operation.

Any such operation before the 1940s was a nightmare, basically. Gallipolli in 1915 was still 19th century, really. Scott in Vera Cruz in 1847 was close to two weeks for about 12,000+ troops, IIRC.

IMHO, my imagined 'rule' is not far off - essentially, proper wharfage is an immense fundamental difference.

Yet river transport mode allows you to somewhat circumvent these restrictions; loading only takes one day even in a region without a port.

Cromagnonman wrote:I am not aware of any major amphibious assaults during the war, but there were several amphibious operations. The best picture I can get is of the North Carolina Expedition, where Burnside was able to debark his 13 regiments in about 6 hours before New Bern.

I'll look up the details, out of curiousity. I'll bet he either had a whole mess of small craft available or was able to use wharfs unmolested.

And yes, what we think of as an amphibious assault was practically unknown before the mid-20th century, the difficulties being obvious. AFAIK, there are no instances whatsoever of a combat landing against a contested coast before very recent times. The difficulties are enormous without modern specialized craft and equipment.

moni kerr wrote:Yet river transport mode allows you to somewhat circumvent these restrictions; loading only takes one day even in a region without a port.

Yes - loading. Unloading is five days.

Bear in mind that figures and mechanics like these are also influenced by game design.

Cromagnonman wrote:I am not aware of any major amphibious assaults during the war, but there were several amphibious operations. The best picture I can get is of the North Carolina Expedition, where Burnside was able to debark his 13 regiments in about 6 hours before New Bern.

FOLLOW UP

Wiki doesn't have the details I'm looking for. 13 regiments, but, as we all know, Civil War regiments weren't maintained at TOE levels, so 13 regiments actual strength can vary very widely.

90 men KIA, 380 WIA/MIA - call it 500 casualties in a light action, I'd estimate about 5,000, maybe fewer, landed.

Still impressive. More info needed.

Considering they were mostly new regiments, I figure they were well above half strength. Also, though, if you check out the vessels in the Union OOB, they're mostly ferry boats and that kind of thing. With a shallow draft and liw freeboard, they're something less ideal than a Higgins boat but still likely able to debark troops pretty quickly.

It does illustrate the difficulty of defending an open coastline against an enemy with naval supremacy. It's likely that the landing forces could have found someplace to go ashore unmolested in an area so sparsely defended, even a small town with some kind of jetty for debarking cannon and horses.

Cromagnonman wrote:Considering they were mostly new regiments, I figure they were well above half strength. Also, though, if you check out the vessels in the Union OOB, they're mostly ferry boats and that kind of thing. With a shallow draft and liw freeboard, they're something less ideal than a Higgins boat but still likely able to debark troops pretty quickly.

It does illustrate the difficulty of defending an open coastline against an enemy with naval supremacy. It's likely that the landing forces could have found someplace to go ashore unmolested in an area so sparsely defended, even a small town with some kind of jetty for debarking cannon and horses.

That's the impression I get from reading the Wiki article.