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I am a total newbie starting a campaign game as the CSA. I have been browsing the forums and their is a wealth of info to be gleaned but I still cant seem to get the momentum going I was hoping to start a thread where people can share their strategies for the first coupla moves of a campaign (in my case the Kentucky variant of the April 1861 Grand Campaign) amongst other things, when I begin I invest a fair amount into Industrialisation, as my history tells me that the CSA was probably primarily handicapped by its tiny industrial base - I concentrate on Alabam Georgia and Louisiana as they have the most potential and are in regions least likely to be occupied early in the game and therefore most likely to give me a return on my investment. This expenditure coupled with the hvy art'y I buy to build up the coastal batteries in my coastal forts to a level consistent with the Federal Keys Forts (up to 350 odd? my Forts guarding the approaches to New Orleans have Coastal Batty's of 30 and the like) I have noticed over the first 4 turns that I have played, just too see what type of and how many military units come on line through events, that the values of these batty's grows each turn is this cos of the terrifyingly expensive replacement heavy artillery I am buying? Next Question; what happens if you go into the red on warsup, cash and conscripts, I just spent, spent, spent and was in deficit first turn, more second (475,000dollars 75+tons of warsup at one point) By the 4th turn it was coming under control a bit but I dont know if It purchased what I bought or what - did it stop when it got to zero allow me an overdraught or what). Are the figures along the bottom of the Economics page an estimate of what will be gathered during the next turn? Finally, (well I have many more but this will do for a start) mu army under Beauregard formed in Richmond 2nd or 3rd turn, it was called the Army of the Potomac..... I waqnt an Army of Northern Virginia/ Army of the Potomac will always be George Brinton McClellan. Bare with me this is my first real post I will get the hang of it and make them shorter and more to the point less tangents! Yee Haa p.s. in case u aint guessed 1 of my strategies is I intend not to lose New Orleans, I read a Narrative of the Ciivil War by Shelby Foote and from what I can glean most often even a fleet of wooden men of war can run a fortress? Again thanks for wading through Yee Haa

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Welcome to the forums Yee Haa,

Two points that I don't believe are really spelled out very explicitly anywhere.

1. All the moves, planned expenditures, listed income, ect., you see during your 'turn planning' are just that, plans. The amount of WSU (WarSUpply) you see in various ledger pages is equated from your current amount on hand + 'expected' production - expected expenditure. Because your production can be affected by various events (for to numerous to attempt to explain here) you will almost always experience some variance. So you should leave a small buffer in your planned expenditures.
2. If your planned expenditures force the ledgre display into the red, some of the expenditures for that planned turn will simply be canceled. Of this you will get no report. Those expenditures will simply not occur. This is bad for planning, because the game-engine decides what is to be left out. It is far better, that if something must be dropped from you planned expenditures, that you do that yourself.

As a practically exclusive Union player, I can say that defending New Orleans and Mobile is strategically very important. They produce a lot of supply and they open the south to attacks on her 'soft underbelly'. Footholds here can be very unpleasant. In fact I almost always take Vicksburg with my NO-expeditionary forces. Far easier than from Memphis. But how Athena (the goddess of AI ) executes attacks on NO etc, I have no idea. Be prepared to be flexible especially because your northern and southern fronts along the Mississippi are far apart early in the war (there will be far more going on in KY & MO than LA). Later, if and when, the northern front is pushed south and the Gulf-front is opened, you will be hard pressed to decide how to divide your forced for a good defense.

Good luck and have fun

Welcome to the community, Yee Haa!

Captain_Orso wrote:Two points that I don't believe are really spelled out very explicitly anywhere.

1. All the moves, planned expenditures, listed income, ect., you see during your 'turn planning' are just that, plans. The amount of WSU (WarSUpply) you see in various ledger pages is equated from your current amount on hand + 'expected' production - expected expenditure. Because your production can be affected by various events (for to numerous to attempt to explain here) you will almost always experience some variance. So you should leave a small buffer in your planned expenditures.
2. If your planned expenditures force the ledgre display into the red, some of the expenditures for that planned turn will simply be canceled. Of this you will get no report. Those expenditures will simply not occur. This is bad for planning, because the game-engine decides what is to be left out. It is far better, that if something must be dropped from you planned expenditures, that you do that yourself.

Captain_Orso, that´s a very interesting observation that new players should take into account.

Nice one, guys. I had a feeling that certain things were being left out, I was well in the red. Thing is I had so much going on and I wasnt sure about delays and such so I couldnt be sure what if anything was being left out - at least now I know, it seems war supplies are perhaps my earliest limiting factor, money and conscripts can be raised, how so War/Sup? This was why I tried to have as much Industrialisation as pos - Yee Haa

Gray_Lensman wrote:Don't feel too bad. This game has a huge learning curve. I probably started over more than a dozen times as I learned new game changing issues. I've also read thru Shelby Foote's Narrative myself (all 3 volumes) 3 times in the last 3 years. Another good read is McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom"

Just posted the other day: A reposting of Dixicrat's Basic Training for AACW newcomers: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=18733

Gray - what about Albert Sidney Johnston - The impression we get from Mr Foote is that he waqs potentially the best high ranking General in the CSA - I am just beginning "From Sumter to Perryville" for the second time. Another good resource is a series called "Great Leaders and Generals of the War of the Rebellion" at least its something like that, its a somewhat obscure collection of almost contemporary biographies and articles written shortly after the war often by the men themselves, it was a long time ago, I found them in the dusty storeroom of a very old library, I shall have a think - Yee Haa

Yee Haa wrote:Nice one, guys. I had a feeling that certain things were being left out, I was well in the red. Thing is I had so much going on and I wasnt sure about delays and such so I couldnt be sure what if anything was being left out - at least now I know, it seems war supplies are perhaps my earliest limiting factor, money and conscripts can be raised, how so War/Sup? This was why I tried to have as much Industrialisation as pos - Yee Haa

Not much. Brigs in the blockade boxes bring in money/WS for every turn they are in the box (at turn start). You can try industrialization, but that is a gamble, and unless your very lucky, you get no WS the first few turns from it. Most experienced players don't do much if any industrialization for the first few turns because of this factor (they are building troops and replacements for their armies).

Yee Haa wrote: This expenditure coupled with the hvy art'y I buy to build up the coastal batteries in my coastal forts to a level consistent with the Federal Keys Forts (up to 350 odd? my Forts guarding the approaches to New Orleans have Coastal Batty's of 30 and the like) I have noticed over the first 4 turns that I have played, just too see what type of and how many military units come on line through events, that the values of these batty's grows each turn is this cos of the terrifyingly expensive replacement heavy artillery I am buying?

Almost all units you start the game with are understrength, with low cohesion. Each turn, the cohesion increases/decreases (until it hits it's minimum or maximum). Movement and combat reduce cohesion, resting increases it. As it goes up, it increases the power of your guns. The other part is the hit points, which are increasing due to your investment in replacements.

Yee Haa wrote: mu army under Beauregard formed in Richmond 2nd or 3rd turn, it was called the Army of the Potomac..... I waqnt an Army of Northern Virginia/ Army of the Potomac will always be George Brinton McClellan.

You can attempt to change the name of the army by dismissing Bory, and reforming the army with him in the same turn (must be same turn). The computer will then look at the location of the army, and assign it a name based on location.

Yee Haa wrote:p.s. in case u aint guessed 1 of my strategies is I intend not to lose New Orleans, I read a Narrative of the Ciivil War by Shelby Foote and from what I can glean most often even a fleet of wooden men of war can run a fortress? Again thanks for wading through Yee Haa

If playing against Athena, don't worry too much about coastal operations, she much prefers the direct overland route to southern cities, and almost always avoids the ocean. Human opponents however don't share her aversion to the waves.

Good luck, and keep learning.

Gray_Lensman wrote:Don't feel too bad. This game has a huge learning curve. I probably started over more than a dozen times as I learned new game changing issues. I've also read thru Shelby Foote's Narrative myself (all 3 volumes) 3 times in the last 3 years. Another good read is McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom"

Just posted the other day: A reposting of Dixicrat's Basic Training for AACW newcomers: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=18733

I Love those two books IMHO the best about the ACW. The learning curve is more demanding then reading the 3 volume set ha ha.

I don't know if putting much into southern industrialization is worth the heavy investment considering all the other demands of the war effort.

If the game had a variant that started in 1859 with the war starting the normal time april 1861, it would be interesting to be able to plan for the war a year's ahead of time. Then the South could really sink some investment into industry. [But of course the North could do the same].

I have had good results investing in Arkansas and Texas. The investment costs are low because they have few towns but seem to produce results almost every turn.

I have had Arkansas out producing New York by the middle of the war.

Ol' Choctaw wrote:I have had good results investing in Arkansas and Texas. The investment costs are low because they have few towns but seem to produce results almost every turn.

I have had Arkansas out producing New York by the middle of the war.

In a recent game, I invested in Kansas for maybe 10 turns at 2 ws and 2 money, and it's moved all the way up to 11 ws/turn. 8 of those are from the Indian village Kiowas! WS isn't even a flicker of an issue for the union though, so it still isn't that helpful.

As the Union I often invest in Kansas too but not to boost WS but for the GS.

Kansas also will produce more supply in Nebraska and on occasion even in the Indian Territory.

It takes a long time to move supply wagons into the far western area and every bit of GS and Ammo is sometimes needed.

Maximum investment is easily affordable and can make a difference until you have several depots in the area.

this feedback is good to hear. I shall try to do more investment and see how that works.

I agree with ol'choctaw...the difference a minimal investment in missouri/arkansas can make is quite big. if your supply wagons are elsewhere then it relieves enormous pressure to have more GS in the towns.
You're not likely to have huge forces way out west, so , equally, you don't need massive ammounts of investment to make an appreciable difference.

I had never thought of this. An excellent idea. In my current campaign, two turns into light ID in Kansas and picked up a steel foundary.

The 2 complications of industrializing Kansas (or, better, the West, as it includes also Nebraska and the Indian Territory) are these: there is very little transportation in the theater, making it tough to move what you've made. It's also fairly prone to enemy action, and even destruction

Most of the supply is moved by river down to St. Louis and the river port just north of it.

Much of the time the port looks like a depot.

The cost of heavy industrialization is 5 thousand money and 6 war material. It is hardly noticeable.

It gives a supply source to units who have to cross those large areas, which seem so prone to mud and blizzards.

It prevents units starving for lack of supply in the towns, in winter and all in all it is far cheaper than building supply units for the few troops you will need in the area.

You all know what a single supply unit costs. Saving the 20 conscripts, not to mention the money and war supply to construct it.

Ol' Choctaw wrote:Most of the supply is moved by river down to St. Louis and the river port just north of it.

Much of the time the port looks like a depot.

The cost of heavy industrialization is 5 thousand money and 6 war material. It is hardly noticeable.

It gives a supply source to units who have to cross those large areas, which seem so prone to mud and blizzards.

It prevents units starving for lack of supply in the towns, in winter and all in all it is far cheaper than building supply units for the few troops you will need in the area.

You all know what a single supply unit costs. Saving the 20 conscripts, not to mention the money and war supply to construct it.

Unless it's made in Leavenworth, it's going nowhere fast. And that river spends a lot of time frozen. And unless you bring supply wagons anyway, most of the theater is still out of supply.

Ol' Choctaw wrote:Most of the supply is moved by river down to St. Louis and the river port just north of it.

Much of the time the port looks like a depot.

The cost of heavy industrialization is 5 thousand money and 6 war material. It is hardly noticeable.

It gives a supply source to units who have to cross those large areas, which seem so prone to mud and blizzards.

It prevents units starving for lack of supply in the towns, in winter and all in all it is far cheaper than building supply units for the few troops you will need in the area.

You all know what a single supply unit costs. Saving the 20 conscripts, not to mention the money and war supply to construct it.

I must admit I never feel the need to industrialize these areas

If there is mud and blizzards supply won't reach units lost in the no man's land between Leavenworth and the Arkansas.

In Arkansas and Missouri supply will be forwarded from Saint Louis through the depots already existing in these two states (you have to avoid their destruction). And Saint Louis is a big enough supply node to feed several divisions.

It is an area with a lot of small garrisons. Just having them self sufficient is a blessing.

Divisions will most always need a supply wagon if going from Kansas to Texas. But it is an area where small raiders work best and one or two brigades in a town is enough most of the time.

A few turns of industrialization will usually give you enough GS for them to function and maybe a little left over.

It works well the way I play the game.

It may not work for everyone, of course, but the Missouri seldom freezes below Iowa.

Kentucky is a much bigger nightmare to keep the small towns supplied than the whole of the far west and takes much more in the way of garrisons to keep safe.

In the west you usually will face one or two cavalry or Indian units who can’t take a garrisoned village.

A single supply unit costs $40,000, 20 Conscripts, & 20 WS.

While the north always has money and WS it can seldom afford to lose 20 conscripts. If it is for a depot near the river you can get it a little cheaper by building a river transport but you have to wait a few turns.

Over all however, it is less costly to Industrialize for the first few turns of the campaign than it is to build even one supply wagon for the area.

looks like it depends what side you play as to how efective you find the industrialization gambit.
I've only played CSA so far..and coming from rural arkansas thru southern missouri to even get with a stones throw of st louis is a real mission.
My first GC fell apart completely while i came to terms with supply out west, this time round, with a minimum industrialization its going much better.
there are only a couple of places the improvements can crop up, and, as fortune would have it, they're the places you want your hanfdul of garrisons.
when you're only looking for say, 8 or 9 gs a turn to keep your small div in the green, it makes a real difference.
If and when I take St louis i assume there'll be a sizeable stockpile to pillage, and the majority of the army of the west will go there.

JKM wrote:looks like it depends what side you play as to how efective you find the industrialization gambit.
I've only played CSA so far..and coming from rural arkansas thru southern missouri to even get with a stones throw of st louis is a real mission.
My first GC fell apart completely while i came to terms with supply out west, this time round, with a minimum industrialization its going much better.
there are only a couple of places the improvements can crop up, and, as fortune would have it, they're the places you want your hanfdul of garrisons.
when you're only looking for say, 8 or 9 gs a turn to keep your small div in the green, it makes a real difference.
If and when I take St louis i assume there'll be a sizeable stockpile to pillage, and the majority of the army of the west will go there.

As the south Arkansas is a good bet for Industrialization followed by Texas if you can manage it.

But cash and WS is the big deal for the south. Manpower is what you never run that low on.

I usually try to get the rail and river supply system built up and then when I can spare the money and GS sink it into Arkansas.

If you make it to St. Louis it is usually up the river rather than up from Fayetteville or Springfield.

But Arkansas can power your WS with cheap investment. Once you are running out of money before you run out of WS you may just make it.

To make up the cash it is going to take blockade runners and a few commerce raiders.

Your transport and supply are the keys to victory more than just massed armies.

If I industrialize as the South, (I generally do, I have bad luck with blockade runners) I generally pick one state and do a heavy industrialization. You can spread light out over a few states, which helps more with regular supplies and ammo, but what you need is WS, and to get a fairly steady stream of those, light industrialization usually won't do it.

I try to keep heavy up in GA for as long as I can since that's about the safest, most centrally located state to where your armies will be. I've had games where I got some lucky rolls and was pretty much good to go in WS by late 1862. Just what I've seen in my time playing. If you want regular supplies, light industrialization, if you need WS, go heavy. And since you're playing the South, you can't afford to go with heavy in more than one state.

Also, just to make sure you know, the industrialization option you pick will continue so long as you can afford it. You mentioned going into the red often. If you are in the red at the end of the turn, I think the first thing that is cut is industrialization since it takes a pretty good chunk of stuff. So long as you stay in the black, you won't need to touch it again until you decide to end it. If you go into the red, you'll probably need to reset.

Ol' Choctaw wrote:Divisions will most always need a supply wagon if going from Kansas to Texas.

I would not invade Texas from Kansas but from the gulf of Mexico : Strategic cities (Houston, Galveston, Matagorda) are then easily reachable.

In the west you usually will face one or two cavalry or Indian units who can’t take a garrisoned village.

That's the point : to defend against such small raid you don't need a big garrison and default supply production should be enough.

But anyway industrializing Kansas won't cost a lot for the northern player and can't hurt him.

Without industrializing I can garrison every Settlement in NE/KS/IT with a 2-militia brigade without any supply difficulty. Sometimes I'll even add an artillery battery if feeling threatened.

Good info here! Thanks all!

Quick tip: avoid industrialization at the start but go for blockade runners instead (I always use the first freshly printed stacks of CSA$ to buy me a fleet of blockade runners and a few warships to send into the Atlantic and sink the Yankee Invader's stuff before it reaches New York), they will get you WS if you need it, or CSA$ which you can use for calling for volunteers with a bounty.

Missouri is a good early bet for early Union industrialization. It starts out "Very Good" and drops to "Fair" after the St. Louis Massacre. I industrialize while it is Very Good and almost always pick up extra supply and ammo in St. Louis, with a good chance for extra war supply.

The best state for the CSA to industrialize is the one you can afford, well in the rear.

I am enjoying this tread. I got spanked badly for trying to industrialize.
Your comments tend to encourage me to try more industrialization once more, but in a sensible manner.