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Diminishing Naval Build Options
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:29 pm
by Chaplain Lovejoy
When building USA river ironclads, my favorite states to build them in are Missouri and Kentucky. That way I know they won't start out up in the Great Lakes! But as the game goes on, the option to build river ironclads in Missouri goes away for some reason. Why is that?
As for ocean-going ships, I notice that the ability to build armored frigates disappears at some point. Anyone know why?
Playing 1.11d, no mods.
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:05 pm
by Rafiki
I imagine you might be reaching your forcepool limits? There is a set number of units you can build of each type; once you reach that limit, you are no longer able to build new ones till either the limit gets upped or some of those units get destroyed.
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:27 pm
by ohms_law
or... are you loosing Springfield? If you don't control the strategic cities in the state, then you can't build there. Or something like that. I'm stil lnot exactly clear how that all works...
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:07 pm
by Chaplain Lovejoy
Did not lose Springfield. Hadn't thought about force-pool limits. Seems like those limits should only apply to numbers, not build locations.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:54 am
by Gray_Lensman
deleted
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:10 am
by ohms_law
What exactly determines whether or not you can build units within a state, though?
I'm sure that it has something to do with the strategic cities, but I can't really figure out the details.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:18 am
by Gray_Lensman
deleted
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:47 am
by Pocus
You must own at least one strategic city to have the possibility of building units.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:51 am
by Gray_Lensman
deleted
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:58 pm
by Daxil
Chaplain Lovejoy wrote:When building USA river ironclads, my favorite states to build them in are Missouri and Kentucky. That way I know they won't start out up in the Great Lakes! But as the game goes on, the option to build river ironclads in Missouri goes away for some reason. Why is that?
As for ocean-going ships, I notice that the ability to build armored frigates disappears at some point. Anyone know why?
Playing 1.11d, no mods.
As far as the Great Lakes go, I believe there is a canal you can sail those ships through.
You must own at least one strategic city to have the possibility of building units.
KY being an exception, right?
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:18 pm
by Jarkko
Daxil wrote:KY being an exception, right?
It's not an exception at least for CSA. If you don't hold any of the three strategic cities in Kentucky (Lexington, Louisville, Bowling Green) as CSA, you can't build new stuff there.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:45 pm
by Daxil
Jarkko wrote:It's not an exception at least for CSA. If you don't hold any of the three strategic cities in Kentucky (Lexington, Louisville, Bowling Green) as CSA, you can't build new stuff there.
Actually you can. It may be that it's not supposed to be the case, which is my question. You can have control of 0 cities in KY while playing CSA in the GC and still request they be built. They'll show up if you capture *any* KY city.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:42 pm
by ohms_law
Daxil wrote:Actually you can. It may be that it's not supposed to be the case, which is my question. You can have control of 0 cities in KY while playing CSA in the GC and still request they be built. They'll show up if you capture *any* KY city.
That's not what I've noticed...
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:07 pm
by Jarkko
ohms_law wrote:That's not what I've noticed...
This is my perception of the situation too. Altough I am not able to be 100% sure on this, but I am quite very sure I was not able to recruit in Kentucky after I lost Lexington (which was my only strat city there at the time) in a test game. Once I captured Bowling Green I was again able to recruit. Sadly I have deleted that save already, but I am pretty sure about this.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:29 pm
by Gray_Lensman
deleted
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:35 pm
by Jarkko
Gray_Lensman wrote:Pocus:
Could you clarify the definition of stategic cities? There are a total of 7 cities in KY, 3 of which contain VPs. Are we to understand that only the 3 cities with VPs are considered "strategic cities"?
While waiting for the answer from Pocus we have to rely on what the game says. The game recognises only the three above mentioned as "Strategic city", which you can see by hovering the mouse over the cities.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:45 pm
by ohms_law
Gray_Lensman wrote:edit> answer from Pocus: the 3 cities with VPs > 0, along with any cities defined as "Objective Cities" in the individual scenario DBs are considered "strategic cities" for this purpose. The effectively means the 3 cities mentioned above normally, but certain scenarios with modified objectives could conceivably contain other defined "objective" cities within the defined area, which could then also be considered "strategic cities" for this purpose.
I wanted to quote this edit to Grey's post, above, just to be sure that everyone who already looked at the thread would see it.
Thanks for the info Pocus. That's pretty much what i figured it would be, but it's nice to know for sure.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:54 pm
by Daxil
Gray_Lensman wrote:Pocus:
Could you clarify the definition of stategic cities? There are a total of 7 cities in KY, 3 of which contain VPs. Are we to understand that only the 3 cities with VPs are considered "strategic cities"?
edit> answer from Pocus: the 3 cities with VPs > 0, along with any cities defined as "Objective Cities" in the individual scenario DBs are considered "strategic cities" for this purpose. The effectively means the 3 cities mentioned above normally, but certain scenarios with modified objectives could conceivably contain other defined "objective" cities within the defined area, which could then also be considered "strategic cities" for this purpose.
Verifiably Prestonburg in the East must be considered a strategic city somehow in the GC. Ive had reinforcements come in through that city without control of anything else in the state.
Also, you'll see here Jabberwock backs it up:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=10848
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:08 pm
by ohms_law
Militia? Militia units aren't necessarily hand purchased reinforcements, since quite a few of them show up by event... as a matter of fact, I'm all but certain that the Kentucky Decides event gives both sides several militia units.
The question is, does Kentucky show up on the Economic map? Do you see purchasable units in the regular Infantry screen?
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:16 pm
by Daxil
Yes. I purchased artillery through that city, and all the various other elements are available.
1865, early May and theyre still available.
[ATTACH]4704[/ATTACH]
v1.11a
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:20 pm
by Gray_Lensman
deleted
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:25 pm
by ohms_law
Daxil wrote:Yes. I purchased artillery through that city, and all the various other elements are available.
v1.11a
It might be a problem with 1.11a. I remember there was an issue with displaying objective cities with the overlay there for a while, so who knows. Wasn't there an issue with the Kentucky Decides event for a while, as well?
OR, you did own a strategic city, purchased the unit, lost the strategic city?
Just to be clear, you're saying that you don't own Lexington, Bowling Green, or Fayette?
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:28 pm
by Daxil
Yes. Im not alone. I gave a linkk above where Jabberwock was saying the same thing. Frankly, Im surprised you havent seen it if youve been playing the GC. What version are you using? I dont believe any patches beyond a addressed any issues in KY.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:44 pm
by Jarkko
I wasn't around yet to play with 1.11a.
I am playing with 1.11g, and at least in the test I just conducted it is *not* possible to recruit troops in KY without one of the three strategic cities under my control.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:54 pm
by ohms_law
Jarkko wrote:I am playing with 1.11g, and at least in the test I just conducted it is *not* possible to recruit troops in KY without one of the three strategic cities under my control.
Same here
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:03 pm
by Daxil
Well there must have been something that changed between a and g. I dont see what, though.
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:24 pm
by ohms_law
I think so.. why are you still using 1.11a, anyway?
(I'm guessing PBEM games?)
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:19 pm
by Gray_Lensman
deleted
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:38 pm
by Chaplain Lovejoy
Daxil wrote:As far as the Great Lakes go, I believe there is a canal you can sail those ships through.
I know about the canal; I still don't want to build 'em up there because of the sailing time to get to where they're useful.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:31 am
by Captain
Daxil wrote:Yes. Im not alone. I gave a linkk above where Jabberwock was saying the same thing. Frankly, Im surprised you havent seen it if youve been playing the GC. What version are you using? I dont believe any patches beyond a addressed any issues in KY.
daxil,
Same here as you and jabberwock. I am on 1.10d and can build KY units. I only play GC and same effect on PBEM or AI.
I've had all sorts of stuff appear in Columbus when I'd lost the rest of KY