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Mines and minesweepers
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:24 pm
by Caoster
Enemy mines hurt my ships. But other than that, I can't find anything to do with them. I can't lay more of them offensively off the coast of england, minesweepers don't seem to sweep them. What exactly do minesweeper ships do, and how do I use them?
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:43 pm
by elxaime
There needs to be some more information about the naval units, and especially minelaying and minesweeping. The manual has zilch and the tool-tips don't really explain anything either. Ideally, a short article on the naval units and their uses, as well as a basic primer on naval strategy, would be nice.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:10 am
by DrPostman
The minesweepers/layers are a holdover from PoN and are pretty much useless since
they are restricted to the coast. It has been discussed using them with fleets to cut
down on the damage taken by a fleet, but that never went anywhere.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:27 am
by elxaime
DrPostman wrote:The minesweepers/layers are a holdover from PoN and are pretty much useless since
they are restricted to the coast. It has been discussed using them with fleets to cut
down on the damage taken by a fleet, but that never went anywhere.
Seems like unfinished business. Mines were significant factors in many WW1 naval operations, e.g. Dardanelles, and accounted for some capital ship losses. Too bad the current ones have no purpose. They should really just remove them at next patch until they figure this out.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:14 am
by Kensai
Not remove them, keep them like that. And then add some new uses in a future patch. It's easier.
I personally use them for coastal reconnaissance.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:35 pm
by DrPostman
Kensai wrote:Not remove them, keep them like that. And then add some new uses in a future patch. It's easier.
I personally use them for coastal reconnaissance.
I do too. Apparently they can be captured, and that surprised me. The
German fleet captured mine off the coast of England and now it seems
that Hipper's fleet is stuck there because of that. Their captured equipment
can't leave the coast so now they're stuck. That might be something in
need of fixing.
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:47 pm
by ohms_law
DrPostman wrote:That might be something in need of fixing.
...
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:18 pm
by Kensai
Yep, that's a bug. There should be code in the engine to disallow Athena to ever combine ocean-going with coastal-restricted ships. It never plays well.
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:30 pm
by Pocus
There is a such a code, so I'm at loss understanding why the MS don't get booted.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:01 am
by GlobalExplorer
Now I am confused.
I thought that sea mines was such a neat feature.
I'm in the process of capturing Memel and send transport ships. I also have a minesweeper quadron.
Now you are telling me I cannot clear the mines and the minesweeper is useless?
Or that neither minesweepers nor mines have an effect??
??
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:09 am
by Lazytiger
GlobalExplorer wrote:Now I am confused.
I thought that sea mines was such a neat feature.
I'm in the process of capturing Memel and send transport ships. I also have a minesweeper quadron.
Now you are telling me I cannot clear the mines and the minesweeper is useless?
Or that neither minesweepers nor mines have an effect??
??
You can. They just explode during the effort. The only way to clear mines right now is to send in cheap suicide ships. Bang! Stupid
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:14 am
by GlobalExplorer
Does that remove the mines?
I have just captured a german steamboat in Elbing and could actually sacrifice it.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:41 pm
by GlobalExplorer
It doesn't.
I sent the steamboat and it sunk. Danzig bay is still mined.
stupid
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:08 pm
by minipol
The outcome is actually desirable: clearing a whole minefield with 1 ship would be nuts
Even if they fix the minesweeping ability, surely a few minesweepers cannot clear a whole minefield in a few turns.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:50 pm
by GlobalExplorer
They can create a safe corridor, that's what they were built for.
Also, a transport squadron is not 1 ship, but 4.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:11 pm
by ohms_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MinesweeperIn Britain, naval leaders recognized before the outbreak of World War I that the development of sea mines was a threat to the nation's shipping and began efforts to counter the threat. Sir Arthur Wilson noted the real threat of the time was blockade aided by mines and not invasion. The function of the fishing fleet's trawlers with their trawl gear was recognized as having a natural connection with mine clearance and, among other things, trawlers were used to keep the English Channel clear of mines.[4] A Trawler Section of the Royal Navy Reserve became the predecessor of the mine sweeping forces with specially designed ships and equipment to follow. These reserve Trawler Section fishermen and their trawlers were activated, supplied with mine gear, rifles, uniforms and pay as the first minesweepers.[5] The dedicated, purpose-built minesweeper first appeared during World War I with the
Flower-class minesweeping sloop. By the end of the War, naval mine technology had grown beyond the ability of minesweepers to detect and remove.[2]
So... yea, should be part of the game. For the first couple of years, at least.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:38 pm
by GlobalExplorer
The British sent a force through the Dardanelles with minesweepers, and it was supposed to be accomplished in days, not months. It was a costly failure though.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:43 pm
by GlobalExplorer
An alternative way to neutralize minefields is the German "Sperrbrecher". These vessels were actually filled to the brim with barrels and could "take" the detonations in front of more valuable units (eg U-boats).
A Sperrbrecher (German; informally translated as "pathfinder" but literally meaning "minefield breaker"), was a German auxiliary ship of the Second World War that was intended to serve as a type of minesweeper, by sailing ahead of other vessels through minefields, intending to detonate any mines in their path.
.. though it seems they were not used in WW1
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:58 pm
by ohms_law
Yea, we have to be careful here. Minesweepers, mines themselves, and minesweeping, underwent some radical changes during the early-to-mid 20th century.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:11 pm
by Offworlder
I've seen mines of the opposing side disappear when the corresponding land province is captured (ex the Belgian coast). Is this normal? No minesweepers were involved as far as I can see.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:26 pm
by DrPostman
Offworlder wrote:I've seen mines of the opposing side disappear when the corresponding land province is captured (ex the Belgian coast). Is this normal? No minesweepers were involved as far as I can see.
Yes, WAD.