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Hi gents,

I believe that would be an interesting topic for discussions to have players post a photo/cartoon/propaganda poster and have others comments or guess about it! Weird, awesome, tragic, fun photos of WW1 are all permitted

So here is one and its associated question. Give me the exact date where Germany paid her last WW1-related reparation payment. You'll be surprised for those who don't know!

From my memory: Wasn't last payment just recently?!
From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_reparations

"To help make reparations payments, Germany took out various loans during the 1920s. In 1933, following the cancellation of reparations, the new German Chancellor, Adolf Hitler, cancelled all payments. In June 1953, an agreement was reached with West Germany in regard to this existing debt. West Germany agreed to make payments against the loans that had been defaulted on, but deferred some of the debt until West and East Germany were unified. In 1995, following reunification, Germany commenced making the final payments towards the loans that had been defaulted on in the 1920s. [I]On 3 October 2010, a final installment of $94 million was made settling German loan debts in regard to reparations.[97]"[/I]

Kind of The Lannisters always pay their debts repayment!

Exact, October 3rd, 2010 !!

Who want to try another one?

I could go next!

The Germans were quite upset when called "Barbarians" in the Great War. In order to "set the record straight" they created some propaganda posters that compared the various social achievements of the era.



The poster does not portray Russia. Could you find Russia's respective cultural contributions just before WW1?

Going back to the original post: the reparations imposed on Germany after WWI was less than the reparations imposed on France after the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. In 1873, France finished paying the 5 Billion Gold Francs to Prussia (342 Billion 2011 USD). By 1932, Germany had paid 20 Billion Gold Marks to the Allies (89 Billion 2014 USD).

The reparations paid you mean, not imposed? I think Germany was soon very reluctant to pay anything after WW1, between her collapsing economy and then the raise of extremists... But correct me if wrong.

I guess Kensai you have the figures you ask?

Le Ricain, are you sure? According to Wikipedia the 5 billion Gold Francs were 1000 million Dollars, ie 1 billion Dollars of 1873. [url=http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/relativevalue.php?use2=a%3A7%3A{i%3A0%3Bs%3A6%3A%22DOLLAR%22%3Bi%3A1%3Bs%3A12%3A%22GDPDEFLATION%22%3Bi%3A2%3Bs%3A3%3A%22VCB%22%3Bi%3A3%3Bs%3A9%3A%22UNSKILLED%22%3Bi%3A4%3Bs%3A7%3A%22MANCOMP%22%3Bi%3A5%3Bs%3A8%3A%22NOMGDPCP%22%3Bi%3A6%3Bs%3A10%3A%22NOMINALGDP%22%3B}&amount=1&year_source=1873&year_result=2013&button=Submit]This could be more or less 20.10 billion Dollars of 2013[/url], at purchasing power parity. That's much less than the 300+ billion your source says.

Moreover, always according to the Wikipedia, "the indemnity was proportioned, according to population, to be the exact equivalent to the indemnity imposed by Napoleon on Prussia in 1807."

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Pocus, nope!
But I think some of them (for example the Nobel Prizes won) could be easy to simply Google!

Le Ricain wrote:Going back to the original post: the reparations imposed on Germany after WWI was less than the reparations imposed on France after the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. In 1873, France finished paying the 5 Billion Gold Francs to Prussia (342 Billion 2011 USD). By 1932, Germany had paid 20 Billion Gold Marks to the Allies (89 Billion 2014 USD).

Huh? But Germany didn't end its payment in 1932. It did so in 2010. So the 1932 figure is misleading here.

wosung wrote:Huh? But Germany didn't end its payment in 1932. It did so in 2010. So the 1932 figure is misleading here.

No, Germany stopped paying reparations in 1932. Germany made its last interest payment on the bonds it took out to pay reparations in 2010.

Kensai wrote:Le Ricain, are you sure? According to Wikipedia the 5 billion Gold Francs were 1000 million Dollars, ie 1 billion Dollars of 1873. [url=http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/relativevalue.php?use2=a%3A7%3A{i%3A0%3Bs%3A6%3A%22DOLLAR%22%3Bi%3A1%3Bs%3A12%3A%22GDPDEFLATION%22%3Bi%3A2%3Bs%3A3%3A%22VCB%22%3Bi%3A3%3Bs%3A9%3A%22UNSKILLED%22%3Bi%3A4%3Bs%3A7%3A%22MANCOMP%22%3Bi%3A5%3Bs%3A8%3A%22NOMGDPCP%22%3Bi%3A6%3Bs%3A10%3A%22NOMINALGDP%22%3B}&amount=1&year_source=1873&year_result=2013&button=Submit]This could be more or less 20.10 billion Dollars of 2013[/url], at purchasing power parity. That's much less than the 300+ billion your source says.

Moreover, always according to the Wikipedia, "the indemnity was proportioned, according to population, to be the exact equivalent to the indemnity imposed by Napoleon on Prussia in 1807."

--
Pocus, nope!
But I think some of them (for example the Nobel Prizes won) could be easy to simply Google!

Using Wiki:

The French 1871 Reparation of 342 BUSD (2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_indemnity

The German WWI Reparation payment as of 1932 of 89 BUSD (2014)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_reparations#Reparations

Well, strange. Because I quoted the same article. So either the original calculation in 1873 dollars is wrong or the 2011 equivalence. Or, obviously, the measuringworth.com site which is sponsored by academics.
To be honest, the 300+ billion $ is a mind-blowing amount of money for war reparations... it could be, but sounds really high...

I love this satirical map of Europe leading to the Great War. To me, it sums up very well the attitudes of the major powers towards one another. Russia with its outstretched arms in all directions, France with its guns pointed squarely at Alsace-Lorraine, Austria geared up against Russia, Great Britain watching actively with weapons drawn, Ottoman Empire as a helpless victim in Russia's grasp, and Germany just sort of uncomfortably wedged in the middle.
EDIT: Oh, and Italy just sorta awkwardly posing and trying to look pretty :P

I would love to have that map framed and on a wall.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0074rc8

A short BBC presentation on the Rose Serio Comic Map of 1877 presented above. The map is actually about the future Russo-Turkish War of 1877.

Yeah it is interesting how much the situation changed from 1877 to 1906. Russia was soon found to be a rather tottering giant and after Kaiser Willie took the helm in Germany and kicked out Bismarck Germany went off the rails under incompetent leadership and was seen as the major threat. It would be fascinating to see what the world would be like today if WWI had never occurred.

Le Ricain wrote:the reparations imposed on Germany after WWI was less than the reparations imposed on France after the Franco-Prussian War of 1870.

But French upper classes had maybe too much and more money at these times . Bismarck himself was surprised that the reparations was paid so soon and easely. I remember i read somewhere that he said something like "if i had know, i would have ask more !" .

Just to show how poor was France those days, have a look on what the new conservative French parliament started to build during the reparation paiement, just after a war, 1/3 of the country occupied, a revolution and a strong repression with some 40 000 less Parisian workers to ask for mercy (or for a job) : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/SacreCoeur_tb.jpg

Hi guys

A friend sent me a lot of fascinating pictures from or related to WW1.

Let's start with this one:

Franz-Ferdinand and wife on the day of their murder:

[ATTACH]28364[/ATTACH]

Here a picture of a Riesenflugzeud (giant aircraft), the zeppelin staken R.VI, with a wingspan of 42.2 m (138 ft).
Lets see the small fighter at its side.
[ATTACH]28377[/ATTACH]

andatiep wrote:But French upper classes had maybe too much and more money at these times . Bismarck himself was surprised that the reparations was paid so soon and easely. I remember i read somewhere that he said something like "if i had know, i would have ask more !" .

Just to show how poor was France those days, have a look on what the new conservative French parliament started to build during the reparation paiement, just after a war, 1/3 of the country occupied, a revolution and a strong repression with some 40 000 less Parisian workers to ask for mercy (or for a job) : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/SacreCoeur_tb.jpg

Yes, le sacre coeur is an ugly symbol. I'm happy I 'm not living in its shadow anymore. The ending of "La commune" is a stain in France's history, and the way the versaillais gave up France on the Prussian army just to end it.

Brrrr.... Quite a dark period in France's history.

Le Ricain, according to a book I've found here at the university library, the actual reparations in today's money of the 1871 war may have been even less than originally calculated. The author is accomplished Geoffrey Wawro. The quoted book was written in 2003, thus "today's money" is 2003 USD. Anyway, that's much closer to 2011 20 billion than the mindblowing 300+ in the initial assumption.



I wonder if we can have table comparing all reparations ever asked and honored in all wars in history. Is anyone aware of such comparison existing?

Leibstandarte wrote:Here a picture of a Riesenflugzeud (giant aircraft), the zeppelin staken R.VI, with a wingspan of 42.2 m (138 ft).
Lets see the small fighter at its side.
[ATTACH]28377[/ATTACH]

Is that a cake behind the wing (on the other side from the fighter)?

Kensai wrote:Le Ricain, according to a book I've found here at the university library, the actual reparations in today's money of the 1871 war may have been even less than originally calculated. The author is accomplished Geoffrey Wawro. The quoted book was written in 2003, thus "today's money" is 2003 USD. Anyway, that's much closer to 2011 20 billion than the mindblowing 300+ in the initial assumption.



I wonder if we can have table comparing all reparations ever asked and honored in all wars in history. Is anyone aware of such comparison existing?

Apparently, both numbers can be shown to be correct. Using the Retail Price Index (RPI), which basically uses inflation, the 5 Billion French Francs is indeed 20 Billion USD. This method would be useful for evaluating fairly small values, ie 10 FF in 1871 would be worth 40 USD in 2013.

Another way to look at it is to compare the values as percentages of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) for the two dates. The 5 Billion FF was an enormous sum of money. As a % of the French 1871 GDP, the same % of the French 2013 GDP would give you the 300 Billion USD.

How about this one:

Nine kings are in this picture. At least two of them were no longer sovereigns when WW1 started:

[ATTACH]28383[/ATTACH]


Easily found, but do you know who they are and when was this picture taken ?

Franciscus wrote:How about this one:

Nine kings are in this picture. At least two of them were no longer sovereigns when WW1 started:

That's this kind of instant of the History that we wonder if we could wish that maybe some guy like Gavrilo Princip could have enter from the backdoor and save us some millions deads... If it only ever was so simple, but not .

Jim-NC wrote:Is that a cake behind the wing (on the other side from the fighter)?

I first thought about a swimming pool...

Lares Privati wrote:Yes, le sacre coeur is an ugly symbol. I'm happy I 'm not living in its shadow anymore. The ending of "La commune" is a stain in France's history, and the way the versaillais gave up France on the Prussian army just to end it.

Brrrr.... Quite a dark period in France's history.

Don't cry... the last time i saw it, i saw that the name of the square in the front of it have changed to form a nice "pied de nez" with Louise Michel.

I can say for sure that this photo was taken before March 1913 as it sports King George I of Greece, who was assassinated by that month in Thessaloniki. So one to go.

I believe it may have been taken in London in May or June 1910 upon the funerals of late King Edward VII...but I may be mistaken

PhilThib wrote:I believe it may have been taken in London in May or June 1910 upon the funerals of late King Edward VII...but I may be mistaken

I think you are correct, I recall seeing this picture in a book on European monarchs in the section detailing Edward VII's funeral. It was noted for being the last and grandest collection of the European monarchs prior to many of them falling from power after the Great War.

Correct, indeed. And anybody knows the other monarch here that would lose his kingdom just a few months after this picture was taken ?