AGEOD Forums

I sent a corps in as a "reconnaissance in force". Stumbled into a hornet's
nest instead. But the hornets apparently didn't have any stingers. A hell
of a lopsided victory. The mouse over doesn't show all the forces there,
because after the turn finished I looked and there is aprox 4,000+ strength
in that city. I won the battle, but now I have to see if I can get out of
there.

[ATTACH]33960[/ATTACH]

BTW, the game is almost over, but I got Little Crow to be an ally so
I put a ring around Richmond and have had some fun. The South is
all but finished, but it's been a great game. I wonder if the CSA can
bribe Little Crow in a future game. That would be a kick having 2
Indian divisions.

What is Confederate NM? The difference between your NMs means that you can win pretty much any battle. Plus, Armstrong's division is mostly militia or volunteer class, it seems (and only one of the divisions in the area was actually engaged so you didn't really fight 75,000 troops.

one explanation is you got lucky with the stack targetting/activation rules. Sometimes happens that only one stack in a province will fight (don't think this is do with NM as tripax suggests) and you can win (or lose).

if so next turn can be scary as the other stacks are pretty much untouched and may get their act together.

It seems there are two confederate stacks in Columbia : they will not take part into the fight (except if special order given to them) but I think they will be included in the battle report under the total number of troops.

If I had to interpret the results: you fought with 3 division vs. 1 CSA division. Although the report says there were 74.237 CSA troops, only Armstrongs division is listed as having fought.
Taking this into account, the result isn't surprising. The question is, why did the other CSA troops sit idle?

I knew I would not escape unscathed.

[ATTACH]33968[/ATTACH]

Again, I'd say NM has a lot to do with this. Also, late in the game the Confederate divisions are filled out with those weird Confederate militia units.

tripax wrote:Again, I'd say NM has a lot to do with this. Also, late in the game the Confederate divisions are filled out with those weird Confederate militia units.

They pretty much all got involved pouncing on my withdrawal. I've
got a couple of even bigger corps next door now so they won't hold
that city long. Thinking I'll go ahead and end it by finishing off the
city of Richmond. Confederate NM is currently at 58.

tripax wrote:Again, I'd say NM has a lot to do with this. Also, late in the game the Confederate divisions are filled out with those weird Confederate militia units.

its really doesn't ... (honest). There is a routine to decide which stack targets which and sometimes one or more stacks are not selected at all even if in the right stance and within the province. Check the wiki and there was a long detailed discussion about this mechanic in the context of Rise of Prussia. The RoP debates led to this explanation being prepared

It seems to have worked exactly as I've seen it before in this instance, you sometimes manage to isolate (or have isolated) a stack, win a surprising victory and in the next opportunity all the others do trigger and you get a very different outcome.

DrPostman wrote:I sent a corps in as a "reconnaissance in force". Stumbled into a hornet's
nest instead. But the hornets apparently didn't have any stingers. A hell
of a lopsided victory. The mouse over doesn't show all the forces there,
because after the turn finished I looked and there is aprox 4,000+ strength
in that city. I won the battle, but now I have to see if I can get out of
there.

[ATTACH]33960[/ATTACH]

Is it possible that the 3 Union divisions engaged one CSA division, then when the other stack(s) came to help the CSA division, William was successful in breaking off combat before the next round started?

Not sure, but here's the 3rd turn after, with a few extra corps thrown in:
[ATTACH]33978[/ATTACH]

Ooops, didnt know the mouse-over had covered the results. In
case anyone is wondering I like to play and watch TV at the same
time, That's a scene from the TV show Dark Matter.

So I've been wondering, at what point does beating up on the CSA stop becoming fun for you? Over 100 NM difference between the two sides and it looks like you have at least a presence in every CSA state (hard to tell with Florida and I'm not counting the forts) yet you're still crowing over some battles? I get the first post, it is a little unusual to have that kind of disparity and result in a battle. I'm not sure whether you're playing the AI or a human opponent. I'm really hoping a human opponent would have the dignity to wave the white flag before things got entirely out of hand. But after a certain point it stops really being fun for me and is more so a chore. And that's when I chalk it up as a win and walk away or start a new game.

loki100 wrote:its really doesn't ... (honest). There is a routine to decide which stack targets which and sometimes one or more stacks are not selected at all even if in the right stance and within the province. Check the wiki and there was a long detailed discussion about this mechanic in the context of Rise of Prussia. The RoP debates led to this explanation being prepared

It seems to have worked exactly as I've seen it before in this instance, you sometimes manage to isolate (or have isolated) a stack, win a surprising victory and in the next opportunity all the others do trigger and you get a very different outcome.

I think I was confused, I thought the discussion was why the victory was so lopsided rather than why other units in the region or in the city didn't join. I suppose the other units were passive, were in the city and not set to sortie, or if they weren't in the city then somehow the battle ended before they joined in (I guess you are saying this is possible). If the units were in the same region, I don't know if MTSG matters at all, and I agree that (unless NM affects move speed) NM doesn't really affect MTSG. But I think NM does affect the battle (either via hit chance or cohesion or something), I don't see that in the discussions you linked but maybe I missed it.

FightingBuckeye wrote:So I've been wondering, at what point does beating up on the CSA stop becoming fun for you? Over 100 NM difference between the two sides and it looks like you have at least a presence in every CSA state (hard to tell with Florida and I'm not counting the forts) yet you're still crowing over some battles? I get the first post, it is a little unusual to have that kind of disparity and result in a battle. I'm not sure whether you're playing the AI or a human opponent. I'm really hoping a human opponent would have the dignity to wave the white flag before things got entirely out of hand. But after a certain point it stops really being fun for me and is more so a chore. And that's when I chalk it up as a win and walk away or start a new game.

I'm playing against Athena, a human would have resigned long ago. As I mentioned
I was able to bribe Little Crow into becoming an ally and made him a division
commander with some ranger and Calvary along with artillery mixed it. I've been
having the most fun seeing how he does in this game. I also mentioned I'm about
to start a new game by finishing off Richmond, which I've had a ring around with
4 powerful corps for about a dozen turns now. Little Crow is the only reason I've
kept it going this far. That, and Athena was able to take back New Orleans about
a dozen and a half turns ago and that made things interesting too.

Nice Dr

tripax wrote:I think I was confused, I thought the discussion was why the victory was so lopsided rather than why other units in the region or in the city didn't join. I suppose the other units were passive, were in the city and not set to sortie, or if they weren't in the city then somehow the battle ended before they joined in (I guess you are saying this is possible). If the units were in the same region, I don't know if MTSG matters at all, and I agree that (unless NM affects move speed) NM doesn't really affect MTSG. But I think NM does affect the battle (either via hit chance or cohesion or something), I don't see that in the discussions you linked but maybe I missed it.

aye basically the stack targetting part of the algorithm means that if there is more than one stack in a province (or more strictly if one side has more stacks than the other) you can get either ganging up (2 or more vs 1) or sitting out (as happened here). Neither really is connected to MTSG as a mechanism. Most common is everyone fights but the alternatives crop up fairly often and can really catch you out.

in the main the best solution is 1 stack per province and rely on MTSG but that of course brings its own problems ... so its a nice trade off between lumping everything into a single stack or opting for the efficiency of multiple commands. My feeling in ACW this is relatively rare due to troop density (out west) or small provinces (in the east).

This is fairly common as the south when sitting on DC


You'll fight a random brigade that was sent to DC before you got there, wipe them out, and the battle log will count all the Union troops hiding behind the fortress, even though they don't venture out.

That does make a lot more sense.