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I have just started the big campaign as union. Any advice on what to build and where to garrison in the first 6 months? Do I need to build a blue water navy? What about riverine for the west?

I am thinking about getting some cavalry doing recon adapt and maybe capturing the towns on the direct rail line from Washington to the west

Thoughts?

I put an Army stack commanded by one of the 3-stars in Harper's Ferry and D.C. and station McDowell's army in the region of D.C. for extra defense. Then I put the makings of what I call a garrison Division in St. Louis MO, Cairo, IL, Evansville IN, across the river from Louisville KY (to be eventually stationed there), Cincinnatti OH, Ashland OH, Parkersburg WV, Wheeling WV and Pittsburgh PA. So the garrison Division will be entrenched inside the city with a General, two of the brigades with a Light infantry element and two Volunteer elements, a Sharpshooter , a brigade with an infantry, conscript and cavalry element (for recon) and seven militia/volunteers. You get most of this force from units that show up for free.

I use the flatboat unit to make a depot in each of these garrisoned cities that lacks a depot. I also send one of the starting four element supply units to each of these cities, which I switch out with a two element SU later on. A city under seige with a SU will only surrender 5% of the time. This gives me a line of easily defended strongpoints anchored on the capital. McDowell has the reserve force and can re-inforce any city under seige.

One other thing I do before the end of '61 is to build all of the ocean transport units and station them in the sea box to increase the amount of dollars/War Supply the Union gets from sea trade. Once you have a strong defense up, you can start making a Terrible Swift Sword to re-unite the country. Good luck!

thanks

How many transports should I build?





nd D.C. and station McDowell's army in the region of D.C. for extra defense. Then I put the makings of what I call a garrison Division in St. Louis MO, Cairo, IL, Evansville IN, across the river from Louisville KY (to be eventually stationed there), Cincinnatti OH, Ashland OH, Parkersburg WV, Wheeling WV and Pittsburgh PA. So the garrison Division will be entrenched inside the city with a General, two of the brigades with a Light infantry element and two Volunteer elements, a Sharpshooter , a brigade with an infantry, conscript and cavalry element (for recon) and seven militia/volunteers. You get most of this force from units that show up for free.

I use the flatboat unit to make a depot in each of these garrisoned cities that lacks a depot. I also send one of the starting four element supply units to each of these cities, which I switch out with a two element SU later on. A city under seige with a SU will only surrender 5% of the time. This gives me a line of easily defended strongpoints anchored on the capital. McDowell has the reserve force and can re-inforce any city under seige.

One other thing I do before the end of '61 is to build all of the ocean transport units and station them in the sea box to increase the amount of dollars/War Supply the Union gets from sea trade. Once you have a strong defense up, you can start making a Terrible Swift Sword to re-unite the country. Good luck![/QUOTE]

Trout wrote:thanks

How many transports should I build?

simple answer is as many as you can afford. Naval invasions are in important part of your options and if you don't need transports to move units you can always put them in the shipping zones to earn extra income

Trout wrote:thanks

How many transports should I build?
8<

loki100 wrote:simple answer is as many as you can afford. Naval invasions are in important part of your options and if you don't need transports to move units you can always put them in the shipping zones to earn extra income

Actually, the strategy build as many transports as you can afford and put them all in the Shipping Box to earn income from shipping. When you need some for an invasion or simply moving troops, you send them from the Shipping Box to where you need them to embark the troops. Once finished you send them right back into the Shipping Box.

Also, don't forget that your blockade fleets will need about 3 in the Gulf Blockade Box and 4 in the Atlantic Blockade Box to keep those ships supplied; 1 more in the Atlantic Box because the trip back to NYC takes longer than from the Gulf Box to Fort Pickens and the weather tends to be somewhat worse in the Atlantic than in the Gulf, so at times the Atlantic Blockade will take more Wear-n-Tear™ hits, which will partly be compensated through supply usage, and at times it will take more than 1 turn for the transports to reach NYC or return to the blockade.

As I posted, build them all. They have the best rate of return for the investment and the game mechanic prioritizes either dollars or WSU's for their transport, whichever you need the most. You can build coastal transports in PA to do small invasions of VA/the Carolinas, so put the ocean transports in the sea box to improve trade and leave them there.

Gray Fox wrote:As I posted, build them all. They have the best rate of return for the investment and the game mechanic prioritizes either dollars or WSU's for their transport, whichever you need the most. You can build coastal transports in PA to do small invasions of VA/the Carolinas, so put the ocean transports in the sea box to improve trade and leave them there.

I don't wish to steal this thread, but I'm wondering GF, aren't riverboats a bit unpractical for invading? If you don't have Norfolk, you will get bombarded already coming around Virginia Beach and they as slow as molasses... sailing through coastal waters.

The couple of times I've tried to move troops like that, they arrived rather worn from the journey.

It's true if I remove a few transports from the Shipping Box I will lose that income for a couple of months--that's the cost of war--, but my troops will arrive at there target in much better condition, having been transported a much shorter time.

Also the idea of buying transports that I can only effectively use to invade Virginia and the Carolinas... I've done things like that. Every time I passover a harbor where these transports are sitting and doing nothing, because there's no practical use for them anymore, I ask myself if I couldn't have spent that money better.

I guess everybody has their ways. All roads lead to Atlanta- Rome, I meant Rome

The ONLY thing I ever use flatboats for is building depots. My troops can swim faster!

Captain_Orso wrote:I guess everybody has their ways. All roads lead to Atlanta- Rome, I meant Rome

They almost made it to Rome, but Able Streight was about as dumb as his "lightning mules"
were and he let NBF trick him into surrendering.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome,_Georgia#Civil_war_period

Of course a year later Sherman's troops finally found the road to Rome

Yeaaaaaah, but I think we were talking about riverboats and not flatboats.

But I always wonder why Athena always buildings so many flatboats and then stacks them up in some remote harbor like one of those crazies who have every New York Times since 1932 stacked in their living room, and hall way, and pantry... , and I think you get the idea.





I don't want Athena to turn in to a cat lady

Trout wrote:I have just started the big campaign as union. Any advice on what to build and where to garrison in the first 6 months? Do I need to build a blue water navy? What about riverine for the west?

I am thinking about getting some cavalry doing recon adapt and maybe capturing the towns on the direct rail line from Washington to the west

Thoughts?

Defend the capital
React to southern advances
make money
destroy CSA in 1863

"...aren't riverboats a bit unpractical for invading? If you don't have Norfolk, you will get bombarded already coming around Virginia Beach..."

My dear Captain, I see Norfolk as being next to Hampton Roads (HR) and Cape Henry (CH), but not Cape Charles (CC) or Currituck Sound (CS). So coastal ships can go HR to CC to CH to CS (or vice verse) and wave at the coastal batteries in Norfolk. They would not be moving directly from HR to CH and according to one of your own earlier posts, not suffer passing fire. You just have to manually move the fleet in sequence to the sea regions that you want.

Everything you said its true, up to a point. Cape Henry and Currituck Sound--Curituck Sound is directly south of Cape Henry along the Virginia North Carolina coast--are both adjacent to Norfolk, VA, so any boat sailing from one to the other will be subject to bombardment from Norfolk.

If you've sailed Cape Charles - Cape Henry - Currituck Sound and not been bombarded, then only because there were no units in Norfolk eligible to bombard, but not because units in Norfolk cannot bombard them.

FYI, I hope this graphic shows that the NW corner of Currituck Sound touches the NE corner of Currituck NC, not Norfolk.

[ATTACH]33109[/ATTACH]

Do you see the north-west corner of Currituck Sound and how it is bent upwards? That was done for a purpose and the purpose was not aesthetics.

If you want to know if regions are adjacent, hold you mouse pointer over one of the regions and press the <Shift> key. If a ray goes from that region into the other region, those regions are adjacent:



Your turn.

Ooooh map fight ! North vs South

Good to know, thanks!

Back on topic, I build all of the ocean transports (IIRC about 38) and station them with the starting ocean transports in the Atlantic sea box in one huge escorted stack with the merchant fleet. I get an extra 122 units of trade above what the merchant ships alone bring in. So that would be $122 or 122 WSU or a mixture of both totalling 122, from early fall 1861 on.

Glad to be of help, you're welcome, you rascal

The balance between money and WSU is, as you have already noted, dependent on what the faction needs at the time. The total is however dependent on numerous factors including NM, how many transport elements are in the Shipping Box[SUP]1)[/SUP] and how many Raiders are in the Shipping Box.

[SUP]1)[/SUP] The ROI (Return On Investment) declines with the number of transport elements in the Shipping Box. So the first 10 transport elements might bring 1.2U each, where U is either money or WSU or some combination of the two, but with 50 transport elements in the Shipping Box they might only bring 0.9U each.

I have never seen any tables or formulas on exactly how this is calculated, but I and some others did do some analysis of the ROI back in AACW to reveal this declining ROI.

Sie sind zu nett!


With 18 Confederate Ocean Transport units I get $12 and 54 WSU for 3.5 units of trade per transport unit.

Those rascals!

Are you playing vs Athena? I'm wondering because in the last game I ran she put a whole bunch of warships in the Shipping Box for what ever reason. I'm wondering if as the South you can tell if your income is also reduced by enemy warships in the Shipping Box.

Gray Fox wrote:With 18 Confederate Ocean Transport units I get $12 and 54 WSU for 3.5 units of trade per transport unit.

Note that the split between $ and WSU is dependent on your current resource status (e.g. if you are missing $, you will receive more money from the transports)

Edit : sorry, I have not read the full thread. My comment applies to the Blockade boxes.

Gray Fox wrote:Sie sind zu nett!


With 18 Confederate Ocean Transport units I get $12 and 54 WSU for 3.5 units of trade per transport unit.

Those rascals!

Is the CSA supposed to get income from the shipping box? Is it intended or is it an exploit?

I guessed that it was an exploit because when I tried to put CSA transports in the box because it did not seem to be reliable. Also, there was no proper message for it.

A while ago I experimented with building CSA transports. In one run they worked and in the second they did not. I could not figure out why. If I remember correctly I think I may have settled on the idea that what the Union had in the shipping box affected the outcome of the CSA transports.

Good question. When it was first discovered it was not an announced feature. I thought I had read once that it had been killed, but I'm not sure anymore. I suppose it would help to know the game version.

I personally think, fair-is-fair. If the Union can do it, so can the Confederacy. But it actually circumvents the blockade. The South cannot operate merchant shipping without ports to operate out of. And the ports are being guarded by the blockade. Transports and merchantmen in the Shipping Box represent ships with good and/or money and/or gold sailing from friendly harbors to foreign harbors to do trade and then returning with goods to their home ports. This is not reflected in the game, because the blockading ships are in the Blockade Boxes, but transports are in the Shipping Box, which is untouched by the blockade.

In reality if Southern transports and merchantmen attempted to sail in or out of Southern harbors they would most certainly be intercepted, by blockading ships. They are far slower than the blockade runners actually used during the war; nearly all of which were actually privately owned by British officers on extended leave from the Royal Navy specifically for this purpose, which is not to say that the British Admiralty supported this, but they did know it was occurring and did condone it. in fact it was viewed as a valid business proposition.

I've asked if this is an exploit too, without reply. IRL one blockade runner brought back 200,000 pairs of shoes, enough for the entire Confederate army. (Unfortunately, the ship's captain should have brought back a few train engines to distribute them too.) I don't know the hull capacity of a brig, but that may exceed it by a bit. My post was about an experiment I did with Athena. The transports were bringing back a lot of WSU (54). I did receive a message that my Union "raiders" had sunk merchantmen equal to the entire production of the CSA that turn, which of course made no sense. If you use brigs as commerce raiders and transports as blockaderunners, then that would make sense. The problem with that is transports in either of the blockade boxes don't transport any goods.

So, just because it works doesn't mean that it should work and I definitely would put this on the list of HR's to be discussed in Pbem.

There have been threads in the past where there was a question on this exploit. I can't seem to remember us getting a definite answer on this.

I do this sometimes against Athena, but feel slightly guilty when I do it, and consider it "Somewhat Exploitative" in my own games. In one sense, fair-is-fair, but I also feel like I am violating historicity. I justify it by imagining a bunch of less cynical Rhett Butlers, and move on....

How would one go about removing the access from Currituck Sound into Albemarle Sound (or whatever it is called in the game). I am not completely certain that this access existed in reality, especially if it meant letting the Union into the interior of the Out Banks uncontested. Even if there was a channel, in game terms, it kinda defeats the purpose of havine forts Morgan and Clark since they then fail at controlling access to the Outer Banks region. I know historically, the Union only took the Roanoke Island defences after they took Ft. Clark, the reason, I assume, was that they could nto get to it other wise.

I guess you place/build a fort on Roanoke island but it doesn;t exist as an indpendent area on the map.

I suppose you could edit the region files and remove the links between the two regions, if you really wanted to. You can only sail shallow draft ships into Albemarle anyway.

I think the Union took Clark and the other forts/islands between Fort Morgan and Roanoke Island first to have a base of operations to then move on Roanoke. Sailing through the outlet was difficult enough for many of the ocean going ships as it was. Having to sail an invasion fleet through under the guns of the forts, as few and small as they actually were, would not be a wise thing to do.