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What are the actual effects of these? I get the description, but in game terms, how do them impact loyalty etc?

Hated Occupier: This leader will apply Martial Law with extreme severity in any rebellious city he has to pacify.

Occupier: This leader will not hesitate to proclaim Martial Law in any rebellious city he has to administer.


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[EDIT]

Actually found a post with the details:

Occupier

When commanding a stack, this leader will proclaim Martial Law in any rebellious city, raising or lowering the city loyalty by 5/trn up to 60% loyalty, if the city loyalty is below 90%.

Hated Occupier

When commanding a stack, this leader will enforce Martial Law with extreme severity in any rebellious city, raising or lowering the city loyalty by 5/trn up to 50% loyalty, if the city loyalty is below 60%.

So, the trait is mostly positive. In rare instances, it can be negative as well. You do not want people proclaiming martial laws in loyal regions. People do not like that...

Correct. Also, you should replace these leaders once loyalty has improved to the max allowed by their ability as it will not improve beyond that number while they remain.

AndrewKurtz wrote:8<
So, the trait is mostly positive. In rare instances, it can be negative as well. You do not want people proclaiming martial laws in loyal regions. People do not like that...

It's.... Martial Law. Which meant that both material and conscript production will be drastically reduced. If it's a small city, it doesn't matter, but if you're taking about Fremont in Saint Louis, I wouldn't be so happy.

Unfortunately there has never been and indicator of whether a leader is enforcing Martial Law, like an icon with a row of garrisoning troops... watching a writ of habeas corpus... burning at their feet .

Also, what seems to be a major contradiction is, when Martial Law is triggered. If the loyalty of the city is below 10%--it can't be 90%, that would make even less sense--, but continues until loyalty is above 60%. Which means that the game must remember that martial Law has been enacted, otherwise the turn after loyalty rose above 10% ML would not trigger anymore.

I am also not so sure if the change is 5% per turn. That seems a lot to me. With Buell's Good Population Administrator you are lucky if loyalty goes up more than 1 per turn.

Occupier works this way:

1. It does not affect loyal regions: 90% loyalty and it don't work.

2. If the region loyalty is under 15 or above 60, then it changes by 5 points toward these values.

3. It adds +30% to police value of troops.

4. It works only in regions with cities

It' true that if you have an Occupier in a region with 61 to 89 loyalty, he will alienate the population. Either you keep him in a highly loyal region, in a region without city or you send him in an enemy region to out people in line.

My Frenglish is kind of bad today so let's see if I understand this

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 1000, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD]Loyalty
[/TD]
[TD]Occupier increase Loyalty 5-pts./trn., increase Police Value by 30%[/TD]
[TD]Occupier lowers Loyalty 5-pts./trn., increase Police Value by 30%[/TD]
[TD]My Comment
[/TD]
[TD]Your Comments
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]0-15[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]Makes sense[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15-60[/TD]
[TD]Yes(????)[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]Makes sense, bit it's exactly the same as 0-15.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]60-89[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]Yes(!!)[/TD]
[TD]Occupier must be getting on the public's ass big-time.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]90-100[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]Occupier is happy and smokes a pipe.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

But that means the 0-15 is the exact same thing as 15-60, or what is the difference?

I understand that 15-60 it does not increase/decrease the loyalty by 5 in either direction, but does impact police value.

But that is my interpretation.

100% right, AndrewKurtz.

I don't want to split hairs, but each police point in a force has a 1% chance to raise loyalty a total of 1% per turn in the region IIRC. So by "It adds +30% to police value of troops." does that mean:

#1. A force with 50 police points would get a 65% chance to raise loyalty 1% (50 police points + (30% x 50) = 65 police points).
or
#2. The same force has an 80% chance to raise loyalty 1% (50% chance from police points "+ 30%" = 80%).

AndrewKurtz wrote:I understand that 15-60 it does not increase/decrease the loyalty by 5 in either direction, but does impact police value.

But that is my interpretation.

Pocus wrote:100% right, AndrewKurtz.

I finally understand something

Thanks for giving the ol' bear some honey

Gray Fox wrote:I don't want to split hairs, but each police point in a force has a 1% chance to raise loyalty a total of 1% per turn in the region IIRC. So by "It adds +30% to police value of troops." does that mean:

#1. A force with 50 police points would get a 65% chance to raise loyalty 1% (50 police points + (30% x 50) = 65 police points).
or
#2. The same force has an 80% chance to raise loyalty 1% (50% chance from police points "+ 30%" = 80%).

That's a good point GF. So depending on the police value of the force in a region with Fremont, the loyalty could go up 1% each turn when it is between 15 and 60, but using a completely different game-mechanic

@Gray Fox: It's a multiplicative bonus (option 1), not an additive one (option 2).

Thank you much!

It's very minor details that make the difference between "Let's eat, Grandma!" and "Let's eat Grandma!".