AGEOD Forums

Greeetings!

Just wanted to stop by here and say hello to what looks to be a fairly active community. I've been playing turned based strategy games (almost exclusively ACW titles, starting with the TalonSoft BG series waaaay back in the day) for quite some time now, but found that being able to play an entire campaign was much more interesting than an individual battle. I just bought this game this past weekend, and am still struggling (aye, struggling mightily) to learn the ins and outs of the engine but see the potential already.

In addition to wanting to introduce myself and say hello, I also wanted to pick your collective brains about some of the historical events that occur during the game: I am playing as the Rebs at the moment, and am closing in on the end of the year in 1861. I've had some very interesting "historical" events that occurred that have already changed the situation dramatically. Firstly, there has been a pro-Union uprising in Dallas TX (which spawned some Union Cavalry units and I was tasked with recapturing Dallas within 5 months for a boost to my prestiege). Some Texas Ranger units spawned in Galveston and I paired them up with Henry Sibley (don't intend to do much in NM at the moment) and he went off to do battle. Sibley managed to drive the Yanks out of Dallas, and has pursued them South towards the Gulf Coast. I think in the next turn he'll be able to destroy them, and then can turn back to take Dallas.

The second, which has much further reaching impact on the war, is that of the secession of Kentucky late in 1861. This seems to be in reaction to the Union establishing a recruiting camp in Eastern Kentucky (which seems to be about the exact opposite of what occurred historically). About half of KY (the Bluegrass region remains loyal to the Union ) has gone over to the Confederacy. Again, I have to say: awesome. Is this same type of event possible in Missouri or even in Maryland? I have Sterling Price and Ben McCulloch camped out in Jefferson City MO, protecting (what I like to believe to be) the Confederate Government in session at that place, but wonder if KY is a one-off type deal.

Now I'm sure you've all encountered these events already, but as a noob, I'm fairly impressed. It's not even a full year into the war and it's already changing in ways that make the conflict new and exciting.

Kentucky Secession is a low probability event, it usually goes to the Union if neither side chooses to invade, congratulations you are a winner! MO and MD do not have a similar event, you have to take them by force. The Sam Houston event is more common, but again, occurs only sometimes.

Welcome, and glad you could join us! Let us know if you have any questions, the members here are usually quick to help out.

Camp Dick Robinson was most assuredly real my friend.

Gen.DixonS.Miles wrote:Camp Dick Robinson was most assuredly real my friend.

Yes it certainly was, however in this iteration of "history" Camp Dick Robinson gets established prior to any Confederates violating KY neutrality, after which, Bishop Polk receives an invitation from Governor Magoffin to recruit troops in Paducah shortly after KY secedes.

In my HPS/TS game club we had someone working on a Strategic Level game with the HPS engine used for tactical resolution. I'm not sure how sophisticated his system was for determining a-historical events, but when the latest play test started I was in Baltimore raising pro-Confederate forces and was trying my best to get MD to secede as well.

The very first time I saw the Dallas event I was curious enough to check it out. There were sufficient Union leaning soldiers in Texas that this event is very plausible. It is not an assured event, it is randomized.

DizoakiusMaximus wrote:Yes it certainly was, however in this iteration of "history" Camp Dick Robinson gets established prior to any Confederates violating KY neutrality, after which, Bishop Polk receives an invitation from Governor Magoffin to recruit troops in Paducah shortly after KY secedes.

In my HPS/TS game club we had someone working on a Strategic Level game with the HPS engine used for tactical resolution. I'm not sure how sophisticated his system was for determining a-historical events, but when the latest play test started I was in Baltimore raising pro-Confederate forces and was trying my best to get MD to secede as well.

Camp Dick Robinson was established before Polk's September invasion of Kentucky. In fact the Union was sending arms to militia already in May or June.

I think the only thing that might be considered a-historical would be that once the Camp Dick Robinson event fires, the Union can send Union troops into Kentucky (not that he has any that he could spare to send there at the time), but still...

The reason there are special Kentucky secession events is because Kentucky was the only state to have remained neutral after North Carolina and Virginia had finally seceded. Maryland was under marshal law practically from the beginning and basically occupied by Union troops. Missouri was officially pro-Union, although the governor was completely pro-Confederacy, which is why he headed South to raise Confederate loyal militias. Saint Louis had been a military town for many years before the war, so having Union troops there was no new thing.

Before the Saint Louis Massacre the state was pretty much evenly divided statistically, but afterwards most of the population leaned heavily to the South and this is reflected in the loyalties of the cities of Missouri.

Missouri and Kentucky are the only states in which both factions can raise troops, and that simultaneously. There were discussion about allowing the South to raise troops in Maryland and maybe Delaware too AND in West Virginia (which officially belonged to Virginia until '63), but they got pushed back for other pressing matters. Maybe some day.

Durk wrote:The very first time I saw the Dallas event I was curious enough to check it out. There were sufficient Union leaning soldiers in Texas that this event is very plausible. It is not an assured event, it is randomized.

There's only a 12% chance of the Dallas event firing, so you won't see it all that often. I've only once got it to be of any real use to the Union and that was with the expenditure of a lot of resources and a very shady move on my part (I was playing against Athena and she let's me do pretty much what I want to and then makes me pay for it ). I transported artillery and a fat flavored unit (Empire Brigade?) from New York up the Texas rivers to North of Dallas, while sending leaders and some additional cavalry down from Missouri. Sending transports up the Red and Sabine didn't feel right, but what the heck, if they'd have encountered a single gunboat squadron, it might have looked pretty grim.

And since this was in beta-testing and the next update came, I had to drop the game right when it was getting interesting leure:

Missouri and Kentucky are the only states in which both factions can raise troops, and that simultaneously. There were discussion about allowing the South to raise troops in Maryland and maybe Delaware too AND in West Virginia (which officially belonged to Virginia until '63), but they got pushed back for other pressing matters. Maybe some day.

Well that answers my next question about whether or not I'd be able to start enrolling troops in Baltimore (which just fell to Uncle Joe's Corps of Lee's Army of Northern Virginia). A little disappointing (only a little) that I can't raise MD troops, especially considering the event notification I received a few turns back regarding Confederate Congress allowing the enrollment of border state troops. Perhaps in the future, as you say.

Still and all, having a great time with it.

The thing with Maryland is, that realistically you should only expect to be able to raise troops if a large section of Maryland were in CS hands over an extended period of time. They were too close to huge Union forces to expect anything else and this is historically indicated. When Lee's army marched through Maryland, twice, AFAIK they didn't pickup a single local volunteer. In Kentucky E.Smith and Forest constantly picked up a lot of them.

I think most sympathizers in the East feared persecution more than in the West. I believe the greater density of population lead them to believe that their families could too easily suffer persecution where it to be known that a father or son or brother were fighting for the rebels. I the West there were generally far fewer troops close at hand, far less population density and no marshal law for the most part.

On top of that, those in Maryland who did want to fight for the South simply filtered down into Virginia or elsewhere and joined there. This happened the other way around too. I believe the figure I heard was up to about 50,000 of each side crossing the Mason-Dixon to fight for the other side. It's very difficult to ascertain anything close to the true numbers, because many of the volunteers lied about where they called home. Sometimes because they didn't want anybody going after their families if they might be captured and it be discovered from where they actually came, but also IIRC because some militia units wouldn't/weren't allowed to take people from out of state by law.

Western Virgina on the other hand, before it seceded from Virgina, was Virginia and it is far from certain in the game that the Union clears it of Confederate forces leaving it completely in Union hands so that the South would have no opportunity to raising troops there.

When Virginia voted if it should secede (twice) the votes showed that in what would become West Virgina the mean average was about 60 against and 40 for secession, with only one or two counties having a majority voting for secession. But the worst was also only something like 35 for and 65 against. So there was a large enough population that were the Confederacy able to hold a city or two for some time it might be reasonable to expect to be able to raise a few regiments of at least militia and mounted volunteers, maybe even a few regular units.