AGEOD Forums

This first video will show you how to form a division

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LK40zYCc3E
http://www.ageod-forum.com/%3Cobject%20width=

[YOUTUBE]6LK40zYCc3E[/YOUTUBE]

Another video explanation about basics of military units in RUS:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9deVfK0yO8s

Just a very small thing, for future references : I think you meant "overview" (vue d'ensemble) rather than "oversight" (oubli, faute d'inattention).

Raidhaennor wrote:Just a very small thing, for future references : I think you meant "overview" (vue d'ensemble) rather than "oversight" (oubli, faute d'inattention).

Thanks. Fixing this tomorrow...

Clovis wrote:Another video explanation about basics of military units in RUS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9deVfK0yO8s

0:07 "Each military counter is either an element or a unit."
0:09 "Elements may be used alone"
How is an element a counter? What is a counter? How can a element be used alone??

0:15 "The 1st M.RedGuard unit is itself part of the larger M.Garrison unit."
I don't think so. It would be a unit if it was administrativly packed in a Division, a Corps or an Army.
Here the Moscow Garrison seems just a group of units loosely gathered to be stacked in a defensive Force.
Gathered Forces can be units (using light admin') since 1940. You put a nowaday organisation on old one.

3:15 "Here are displayed all the elements of this unit"
No. These are the units (Regiments for the Reds) of the Division unit. The elements (I don't know how they are named for the Red, Companies?; for the White they are Regiments) are all displayed to the right, not the left.

ERISS wrote:0:07 "Each military counter is either an element or a unit."
0:09 "Elements may be used alone"
How is an element a counter? What is a counter? How can a element be used alone??

0:15 "The 1st M.RedGuard unit is itself part of the larger M.Garrison unit."
I don't think. It would be a unit if it was administrativly packed in a Division, a Corps or an Army. Here the Moscow Garrison seems just a group of units loosely gathered to be stacked in a defensive Force.
Gathered Forces are units since 1940. You put a nowaday organisation on old one.

3:15 "Here are displayed all the elements of this unit"
No. These are the units (Regiments for the Reds) of the Division unit. The elements (I don't know how they are named for the Red; for the White they are Regiments) are all displayed to the right, not the left.

It's no secret you know this game better than me; After all, you just don't play it and I'm just one of the designer .

Clovis wrote:It's no secret you know this game better than me; After all, you just don't play it and I'm just one of the designer .

I know, this game lacks a good teacher. That's what I say since the beginning.

ERISS wrote:I know, this game lacks a good teacher. That's what I say since the beginning.

You should try RPG about Civil war. You're displaying the same pride than Trotski

Explain better, argue, look for the obstruct.
If the game would have been well explained, I wouldn't need to build my own explanation.

The problem seem your definitions don't fit in the RUS program or sometimes with the tutorial.

Exemple:
Tutorial explain the elements are the smallest part of units, then you say they are all part of units.
Then, if they are all part of unit, they can be another unit.
Then, how can one Element Details Window show all the details of the unit??? as only the smallest elements fit in the window.

ERISS wrote:0:07 "Each military counter is either an element or a unit."
0:09 "Elements may be used alone"
How is an element a counter? What is a counter? How can a element be used alone??

A counter is a picture of either a unit or a force (on the map). And I guess an element can be used alone if a unit only contains one element. Although yes, saying it like can be a bit confusing, fair point.

ERISS wrote:0:15 "The 1st M.RedGuard unit is itself part of the larger M.Garrison unit."
I don't think so. It would be a unit if it was administrativly packed in a Division, a Corps or an Army.
Here the Moscow Garrison seems just a group of units loosely gathered to be stacked in a defensive Force.
Gathered Forces can be units (using light admin') since 1940. You put a nowaday organisation on old one.

Hmm, I actually kind of agree with ERISS on that one, sorry Clovis. When you use the term "unit" for a single unit or for a force (or stack), it can lead to confusions. (edit : I'm not talking about describing a division as a unit. A division is displayed as a single unit, so that's not a problem).

ERISS wrote:3:15 "Here are displayed all the elements of this unit"
No. These are the units (Regiments for the Reds) of the Division unit. The elements (I don't know how they are named for the Red, Companies?; for the White they are Regiments) are all displayed to the right, not the left.

Again, I have to say he is right. You (I mean Clovis) are using the same word to describe 2 different things. What is displayed on the left would best be described as "parts" of the unit rather than elements. There are 8 units in this Latvian division, but there are more than a dozen elements - displayed on the right - in this division (elements of infantry, of artillery, etc.).

ERISS wrote:Exemple:
Tutorial explain the elements are the smallest part of units, then you say they are all part of units.
Then, if they are all part of unit, they can be another unit.
Then, how can one Element Details Window show all the details of the unit??? as only the smallest elements fit in the window.

Sorry, but in that case you're not being very clear either ERISS, I have no idea what you are trying to say.

OK. removed. Time to do other things, rather than passing a few hours on that...


I'm sure some of the best critics here will be able to do something much more perfect. 'm pretty sure I should very soon see the result

I'm sorry you're seeing it like this Clovis.

I still think these videos are an excellent intitiative, and overall I think ERISS is getting hung up on what remains only a misunderstanding over semantics. But others players might also be "blocked" like that.

I certainly couldn't do better, and I completely understand if you decide to employ your time on other things from now on. But please don't take my posts to mean that your efforts are not appreciated.

Again, I think video tutorials (or you video AAR) are an excellent tool to allow newcomers to discover the game in a fun an easy way.

Raidhaennor wrote:I'm sorry you're seeing it like this Clovis.

I still think these videos are an excellent intitiative, and overall I think ERISS is getting hung up on what remains only a misunderstanding over semantics. But others players might also be "blocked" like that.

I certainly couldn't do better, and I completely understand if you decide to employ your time on other things from now on. But please don't take my posts to mean that your efforts are not appreciated.

Again, I think video tutorials (or you video AAR) are an excellent tool to allow newcomers to discover the game in a fun an easy way.

Don't worry. I'm just tired by the overload of the last month I will come back to this when I will have taken a few rest . I should ten be able to cope easier with some misunderstandings

Regards

Many confusions come from the difference between 'Element'(RUS defined) and 'element'(common word), and between 'Unit'(unit in Unit scale) and 'unit'(common word).

We should ban the word 'element' when it does not show other thing than the RUS Element:
RUS Instruction Manual v1.0, p.8:

The smallest military unit in the game is the Element.

Same for 'unit', Manual p.23:

5.1 Unit Scale
In Revolution Under Siege there is basically 5 levels of unit scale in the game: Elements, Units, Combined Units (aka Division in AgeOD's America Civil War or Brigade in Rise of Prussia), Corps and Army

We see a unit is different from a Unit which is a kind of unit. So, we could talk about a unit when it is a Unit, and ban the 'unit' word for others units, but that is not how the RUS program works.
What I choosed is a smoothest ban: We should define units as all figures (and only that) we can see in the Panel of units, and decide the stacks seen on map are not units but forces (but some, not any, force can become a unit once integrated in another force).

These bans (de-finitions) should remove many confusion, and would greatly make the RUS understanding easier.
And, as I said about the groups of units, would be historically better.


French help:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9finition_d%27%C3%A9l%C3%A9ment

Une bonne définition est :

1. Précise - La définition doit utiliser des mots qui ont une signification précise. Il faut essayer d'éviter des mots qui ont de multiples significations ou sens.
2. Concise - La définition doit utiliser une description claire qui soit la plus courte possible.
3. Non Circulaire - La définition ne doit pas utiliser le terme que vous essayez de définir dans la définition elle-même. Ceci est connu comme une définition circulaire.
4. Distincte - La définition doit différencier un élément d'un autre élément. Ce processus est appelé enlèvement des ambiguïtés.

Clovis wrote:I'm sure some of the best critics here will be able to do something much more perfect. 'm pretty sure I should very soon see the result

Yes, that's what I do with the retranslation. About the tutorials, that would be finished soon.

ERISS wrote:Yes, that's what I do with the retranslation. About the tutorials, that would be finished soon.

And you're not playing the game! How to name someone teaching something he doesn't know?

In fact you're not Trotski, you're Lissenko.

ERISS wrote:Yes, that's what I do with the retranslation. About the tutorials, that would be finished soon.

Your work has currently just messed the French strings order. They will be integrated in the official ones after being fixed by us, because it's just currently breaking the game.....

Clovis wrote:Your work has currently just messed the French strings order. They will be integrated in the official ones after being fixed by us, because it's just currently breaking the game.....

I didn't touch to the strings order. The bug should already be in your 1.01 file. For what I tried them, they don't break the game.
If actually damaged, send me where you see a damage, I can easily fix it as I have the original official patch files.

ERISS wrote:I didn't touch to the strings order. The bug should already be in your 1.01 file. For what I tried them, they don't break the game.
If actually damaged, send me where you see a damage, I can easily fix it as I have the original official patch files.

Don't believe us. FYI, modifying files is much more secure with Excel or Openoffice...We fix yout hings before integrating them in the official version, and that's certainly because you don't see the trouble. Playing the game would help you, but as you rated this 1/5, I understand why you don't want to play it.