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One bothersome thing about BOA2 is that once the French & Spanish intervene they are still tied to the American morale number - and if the Americans have done poorly, it means the French and Spanish are forced to pay the price for American failure.

It's a design limitation, but it is perhaps excusable given the scope of BOA2. It would not be so excusable in the context of the Frederician wars, where one would hope that the various great powers would be treated as separate factions each with its own morale. Why should Russian morale suffer because France has endured a catastrophic defeat at Rossbach? Here's hoping.

Your allies should take moral hits for defeats to the allied faction. But they should be much less than the hit to the nation involved in the defeat. Conversely, victories should cause small lifts to moral for allies of the victorious nation.
The best case IMO would be for there to be a time lag before the news of the battle reaches your allies, but that could be hard to implement.

Indeed, they are all from the same 'faction' even if of different nations...

This can be worked around though, for example when the French arrives, perhaps the American morale can be set at 80 if under 80, something like that.

Pocus wrote:Indeed, they are all from the same 'faction' even if of different nations...

This can be worked around though, for example when the French arrives, perhaps the American morale can be set at 80 if under 80, something like that.

That's a very good idea for BOA2 - French intervention should have a morale-boosting effect, it's only sensible and might make a difference to the game's play-balance.

Regarding ROP, though - won't "One Big Faction" mean that Russian generals can command Austrian or French troops (and vice-versa) without command penalty?

squarian wrote:Regarding ROP, though - won't "One Big Faction" mean that Russian generals can command Austrian or French troops (and vice-versa) without command penalty?

That won't be a problem. You already have sub factions on current games, as the Indians, French, Spanish, USA or british and German Mercs on BoA2 or the whole lot of sub factions on NPC.
Only leaders with special abilities (Angloindian commander or whatever) can command other substations units without penalties
Cheers

arsan wrote:That won't be a problem. You already have sub factions on current games, as the Indians, French, Spanish, USA or british and German Mercs on BoA2 or the whole lot of sub factions on NPC.
Only leaders with special abilities (Angloindian commander or whatever) can command other substations units without penalties
Cheers

Ah, I see - "sub-faction" is what I meant by "faction". Sorry for mixing the terminology. I guess I was originally suggesting that sub-factions have their own morale in ROP. Evidently not, but Pocus' work-around might solve the problem anyway.

But to clarify my concern: what I and my opponents seem to be seeing in BOA2 is that the fatigue-recovery and combat effects of morale are sufficiently serious that the losing side can find itself unable to recover despite new allies. In the context of the American Revolution, Fr/Sp intervention only happens once, so it doesn't matter as much (though Pocus' idea for a morale boast at intervention would be a big improvement and hope it can be woven into the next update).

Whether diplomacy in ROP will be essentially scripted (as in BOA2 and AACW) or mostly directed by players, either way there are likely to be more diplomatic turning-points in ROP than either the two American games, in which case the broken-morale issue is likely to sway the game-balance of ROP much more than the prior two games. This seems to me to make a work-around like Pocus' idea all the more important for ROP. If not, we'll have a strong possibility of one side racking up an unassailable morale advantage early on (I would think especially in a Austrian Succession campaign). And of course, it only makes sense that a new ally's entry would boost a coalition's flagging morale.

(Implications for VGN's design also?)

Yes, i see your point. Interesting idea, but probably it's not possible to ahve different morale levels for subtractions.
Using some events like the one Pocus comments could be a good way getting the (approximately) the same effect.
For VGN i don't think this will represent any problem as VGN will be the first multi faction AGEOD game

Cheers

arsan wrote:For VGN i don't think this will represent any problem as VGN will be the first multi faction AGEOD game

Cheers

Exactly...

Generalisimo wrote:Exactly...

Glad to hear it! It'd be kind of weird for VGN to only have two factions anyway.

I could see what the two factions could be in VGN though, Uncivilized Heathens and Civilized Europeans ftw.

The American and Japanese being geographically outside of "Europe", in which category would they fall then

PhilThib wrote:The American and Japanese being geographically outside of "Europe", in which category would they fall then

Obviously the Americans are uncivilised even today :-D . The Japanese I guess we would have to debate the pros and cons ;-) ...