AGEOD Forums

This has been an ongoing debate since BOA and the addition of Rules of Engagement was a great addition to address the desire for more input into the tactical aspect. Of course we, or I at least, always want more so I was wondering if it would be possible to add a system where in battles of a certain size, around 50,00 total for both sides, the battle resolution could be divided up into several phases that would allow the players some input during the battle. Maybe the ability to change ROE, Posture, or sending in the Guard and things like that. I think a chit option would also be nice. Avalon Hill's old War and Peace game had a nice and simply chit option for combat that added a bit of flavor. Both sides chose a chit that represented some grand tactical maneuver or stance, such as Outflank or Bombard, and the chits were compared to give one side a bonus to battle resolution. That might be a bit "gamey" but it was nice.

This would allow the Player to get a better feel for why a battles concludes as it does and give us a bit of input into the battle after we get some feedback on how it is going. Even a single break in the battle to give us a chance for some input would be great. I would prefer two phases but no more than that. It is probably a bit late to add this to ROP before release, if it is possible at all, but is this something that could possibly be added later in a patch or future game?

Actually, i opened a thread Sol Invictus about battles and Kingdom advantages about that .
I think that the rules of engagement are good especially for Napo and AACW or even WiA/BoA because there were nothing exceptionnal tactically but not so for RoP.
The button could be replaced by instructions used at the time for example Prussia would have first Oblique Order, meaning that when you have regular/Veteran as it happens early in the war, it would be likely for a round or two to have 2/3 of your army against 1/3 of the ennemy with the possibility for the ennemy to redeploy to face the ennemy, here the French are at a desadvantage.
If the defender is not able to redeploy to face then it will be a Leuthen type of battle.
The Austrian could use Reserve (to counter Oblique Order) or Artillery barrage (Prague) or converging column starting 1758 ( Hochkirch).
Of course when using for example Oblique Order its likely your units will start the battle exausted(the march started early in the morning to go to the ennemy) and when the Prussian Veterans will vanished after 2 or 3 years, Oblique Order will be no longer used.
An Austrian using artillery barrage or converging will be copied by the Prussian ending in 1762 with a Great Battery and concentrated assault.
It replaces some if not most of the ROE original button but it adds more immersion.
This is not a complete tactical system as asked by some for 2 or 3 years but it is like your chit idea using the tactics of the time.
The battles of the time were set-piece battle during all day and were Bloodbath except perhaps for the more agressive button in RoE good for a Kunersdorf battle.
Even at Gross-Jägersdorf a 28000 Prussian army did a set-piece battle against 50-55000 Russians... and attacking following Fred's tactics.

Yes Florent, sorry. I read your thread awhile ago but forgot about it and started this thread. Yeah I agree, not anywhere near a Tactical mode, just something to flesh the battles out a bit and offer the player some choices. If it would be so detailed as to offer actual army specific tactics such as Oblique Order for the Prussians that would be great.

Maybe the Admins can merge these two threads.

I think you can guess some answers from Pocus answers on the VGN public subforum...

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=141072&postcount=2

Pocus wrote:There will be a better reporting on what's going on, rest assured. I won't give you details, but there will be one kind of reporting which should be easy to read, happening 'on the fly' during battle, and a more detailed one after battle. Now for control, we still don't plan to allow you to tweak your orders during the battle sorry. This is much more a design decision than an engine limitation, as the engine can already be put on pause to display the battle. If I were to take a parallel, you roll a dice and check the result somehow. Except that in the AGE engine, you roll some thousands dices.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=141659&postcount=30

Pocus wrote:What's for sure is that before having tactical control, if we ever reach this point (for solo games, PBEM would have to stay with full automated battles), there will be a period in the future where more and more visual feedback on battles will be shown to player. Such time has already begun, as we are improving the reporting on battles for VGN... perhaps not to the extend many would like but we are doing our best.

Remember, those Pocus comments are for VGN, that is going to be released AFTER RoP.

Thanks for the re-direct Generalisimo. I guess I need to spend more time at the VGN forums.

Flo: Are you suggesting that the ACW was fought without tactical brilliance or strategic oversight of a significant kind? I would suggest that this is not correct. t

No Tagwyn, but the Civil War wasn't fought like Napoleonic, Franco-Prussian war or even WWII, i mean with the sword in your back thus there were no respite for a defeated foe...except in the end with Grant.
With Napo and Moltke, after Manassas Washington would have been taken, the Army of northern Virginia woud have been swept after Antietam or Gettysburg etc...
In the seven years war neither the Prussians, Russians or Austrians or any other Army were able to finish off an ennemy.

Florent wrote:No Tagwyn, but the Civil War wasn't fought like Napoleonic, Franco-Prussian war or even WWII, i mean with the sword in your back thus there were no respite for a defeated foe...except in the end with Grant.
With Napo and Moltke, after Manassas Washington would have been taken, the Army of northern Virginia woud have been swept after Antietam or Gettysburg etc...
In the seven years war neither the Prussians, Russians or Austrians or any other Army were able to finish off an ennemy.

I think you are overstressing that Napoleonic feature, in fact there were many more indecissive battles in which the defeated enemy retreated unmolested that those ending in in armies being swept.

Yes totally agree Aryaman, but there were still movement with a pursuit over dozens or hundreds Km.