AGEOD Forums

How does one force an Indian nation to surrender and cede territory as the US?

I have 3 cavalry divisions chasing the Indian nations that I started the game at war with (I assume we are at war from the tool-tip that pops up when I hover the mouse over an "enemy" unit"). I also see that I can "declare war" still, though. I am also sending settlers and any other colonial options that are available and reasonably priced, not sure if that speeds up the transition process.

Just send troops in to occupy it. The land technically belongs to you; it is just controlled by the Indians. Send in troops, hunt down the roving bands both at the start and any more that pop up, slowly gain control through both military occupation and through the normal colonial options (bribes and treaties for the less developed regions and immigrants for those more so such as Minnesota.)

Don't declare war! You won't really get anything out of it (historically, the USA never declared war officially against any tribe...).

Best option--occupy all the area with troops. Build an outpost or fort on their capital region:

APA - Flagstaff
CHE - Las Cruces
CRE - Athabasca
NZP - Bozeman
SIX - Billings

Then, colonize them. When you are able to convert those provinces to colony status, they will most likely (but not always) convert to your side. You will still get the occasional uprising, but not like before. Plus, you will sometimes get Indian units. I think I have 3 Cherokees out suppressing the Sioux right now

Is there an event/option for the "colonies" to become full members of the United States later in the game?

McClellan wrote:Is there an event/option for the "colonies" to become full members of the United States later in the game?

You got that Little Mack

What you need to do is get all the provinces to 100% CP. The States will then join the Union as "national soil."

When that happens, it is a great day--prestige, plus it becomes immune to external colonization actions etc.

Aragos wrote:What you need to do is get all the provinces to 100% CP. The States will then join the Union as "national soil."

It seems that Immigrants and Build Telegraph are the only colonial options that will increase CP that high, and you only get a limited number of those. I assume the force pool will refresh?

I’ve been using my default starting units to crush the Indians (cavalry unit and Texas and St. Louis infantry units), and then I build the expeditionary troop units (1 inf and 1 cav battalion) to use as occupiers for regions I want to gain control of. They are cheap military units and don’t suffer any supply or attrition problems in the regions without supply if they are alone in the region they occupy.

The combat units that I chase down the Indians with have to run back to depots occasionally, so the expeditionary units are better for guarding your exposed trading posts and missions so they don’t get burned down while your troops leave to go get fed.

Jim

James D Burns wrote:I’ve been using my default starting units to crush the Indians (cavalry unit and Texas and St. Louis infantry units), and then I build the expeditionary troop units (1 inf and 1 cav battalion) to use as occupiers for regions I want to gain control of. They are cheap military units and don’t suffer any supply or attrition problems in the regions without supply if they are alone in the region they occupy.

The combat units that I chase down the Indians with have to run back to depots occasionally, so the expeditionary units are better for guarding your exposed trading posts and missions so they don’t get burned down while your troops leave to go get fed.

Jim

good observations all. The Exp Units are great suppresion/occupation units.

StephenT wrote:It seems that Immigrants and Build Telegraph are the only colonial options that will increase CP that high, and you only get a limited number of those. I assume the force pool will refresh?

yes, when the run out (e.g., 12 turns pass,etc) you get them back.

I worry a bit about game balance when I hear of people raising so many new military units for the indian wars. Is this really necessary to win? Or could you achieve the same with just your few original regulars and a couple of militia brigades? Historically the US did not have a large regular army until after the Spanish-American war...

true carnhorn, and they kept fighting the Indians until 1890

The units you raise for the IW are pretty useless in large-scale fights (the Exp Brigades). If you raise larger units, and PON allows you to do so, you are also shifting $$ and resources from internal improvements, etc.

Again, it is about how deterministic the game should be-e.g., "Its June 1876. Gen Custer, I have some bad news." While historical, it also would not take for account any player input at all.

PON is a game after all

Aragos wrote:The units you raise for the IW are pretty useless in large-scale fights (the Exp Brigades).

Agree. A single brigade is only 1,000 men (2 battalion elements of 500 men each). Compare that to a single infantry element in a normal unit (3,200 men) and they're pretty useless as military units. Also they have no firepower values so they aren't much good for fighting either, I view them as strictly occupation troops.

If you build the entire force pool, they don’t even equal the manpower of a single combat division. Though I generally get by with just 6-8 units or so, for an equivalent of just 2 infantry elements worth of manpower.

Jim

the region "northern missouri" belongs to kansas. maybe a bug?

No bug, just a wrong "name" in the string file that can easily be fixed...just give us the 'right name' you think it should be...

Sorry, the name of the region is ok.

but it belongs to the state of missouri and not to kansas.

McClellan wrote:Sorry, the name of the region is ok.

but it belongs to the state of missouri and not to kansas.

Yeah, I've been bugging Philippe about that. (in full disclosure, I'm from that region).

N. Missouri should be part of Missouri, and southern Arkansas should be part of Arkansas (and not Oklahoma).

but i have more...

north alabama -> alabama, not tennessee
boothill -> missouri, not arkansas
donelson -> tennessee, not kentucky
hamilton + scioto valley -> ohio, not indiana
western maryland -> maryland, not ohio
smokey mountains -> north carolina, not south carolina
wyoming valley -> pennsylvania, not new jersey

Aragos wrote:Don't declare war! You won't really get anything out of it (historically, the USA never declared war officially against any tribe...).

Best option--occupy all the area with troops. Build an outpost or fort on their capital region:

APA - Flagstaff
CHE - Las Cruces
CRE - Athabasca
NZP - Bozeman
SIX - Billings

Then, colonize them. When you are able to convert those provinces to colony status, they will most likely (but not always) convert to your side. You will still get the occasional uprising, but not like before. Plus, you will sometimes get Indian units. I think I have 3 Cherokees out suppressing the Sioux right now

I can't find these places, did you use the region names or structure names?

DooberGuy wrote:I can't find these places, did you use the region names or structure names?

Once structures pop up, then you can find them, IIRC. The regions are basically western sector of New Mexico, central Arizona, the necky part of Utah, and parts of Montana.

Great job with the new state borders in the beta patch!

I did notice one problem with Kansas still. North Missouri is part of Missouri now, but it's still the capital of Kansas. It looks like it can be fixed by changing a line in gamedata/colonialareas.ini from this:
$Colony_Kansas|$Kansas City

To this:
$Colony_Kansas|$Topeka

Fixed for next patch