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here's my situation. im playing entante and i have two adjacent stacks of enemy units surrounded. the regions they occupy both have french towns. both stacks seem to be in supply from the two towns, as i can see no other source for them.

i know the rules say that 2 towns can be a source of supply. but it seems a bit strange that two adjacent towns that are in a enemy country can be a source of supply for so many otherwise surrounded corps.

If you have installed the beta-patch 1.05L, select the concerned stacks and hit Ctrl+S: this will show the actual & nearest supply sources (green lines) and relays (pink lines).

thanks calvinus for the tip, that makes it alot easier.

its as i thought, all those surrounded corps are drawing supply off those 2 captured towns.

this seems to be a bit off. theres alot of areas on the map that are thick with towns, many of them adjacent to another. this allows enemy forces to capture a couple of adjacent towns, then they can forget about keeping a supply line back to their home country.

i had a very large german force surrounded near paris. but since they had compienge and melun (i might not have the names correct) they were in supply and thus extremly hard to kill.

the same thing happened in northern italy. 2 austrian stacks were completely cutoff from austria by a wall of italian units, but since they had captured 2 adjacent towns they were in supply.


with just 2 towns be able to provide supply it becomes very easy to ignore supply lines, since in some areas, so many towns are adjacent to each other.

i could possiby see adjacent towns in your home country providing supply if your surrounded. but i think it a bit much to expect 2 small enemy towns adjacent to each other, to supply a large invading army that's otherwise surrounded.


just some thoughts on my part.

I'm happy you appreciated this new feature. I realise it's a great help, mainly because it works also when you click on enemy stacks!! So you see all supply routes to cut, eh eh!

Luca: My Dear Friend. GO TO BED!! Even you need rest!! t

Tagwyn, you are right! I'm going to have some rest...

The boardgame rules are very explicit - "Captured enemy cities or towns cannot be supply sources or relays".

Perhaps WW1 supply needs a little tweaking

Garrett

Also, a supply source can be - "A friendly city or town, which is not isolated and is linked by unbroken rail, major river or sea hexes/hexsides to another friendly city".

Two connected towns cannot make a supply source. Need a city on one end.

thanks for the clarification of the supply rules.

if im not mistaken in my observations, i agree that supply does need some tweaking.

as it stands now you can get some weird situations, like those i mentioned above.

Can you post here the zipped savegame (both .SAV & .MAP), so that I can check what's wrong, please?

here you go calvinus.

as you can see the german stack in compienge is drawing supply from melun, as is the other german stack next to melun. also theres a german stack drawing supply from amiens.

in my humble opinion all these german stacks should be out of supply, as they have no supply line back to germany.





this save game also shows another unrelated problem. while i was making detachments from the french 1st army, i accidently teleported a detachment into melun. since this is where i wanted it, i just left it there. however as you can see, even though i have a french detachment in melun the germans still control it. its my guess that the reason for this is that i teleported it there, rather than moved it there. later i physically moved french units into melun and control passed to the french.

patrat wrote:here you go calvinus.

as you can see the german stack in compienge is drawing supply from melun, as is the other german stack next to melun. also theres a german stack drawing supply from amiens.

in my humble opinion all these german stacks should be out of supply, as they have no supply line back to germany.

Loaded your savegame and selected the Diplomatic map mode (F4) that shows immediately the control of areas. I see that Melun and Perrone are still controlled by the Germans, even if you have troops there. I believe that if you move other stacks there, so changing the control of the areas, the enemy stacks will be finally out of supply!

patrat wrote:this save game also shows another unrelated problem. while i was making detachments from the french 1st army, i accidently teleported a detachment into melun. since this is where i wanted it, i just left it there. however as you can see, even though i have a french detachment in melun the germans still control it. its my guess that the reason for this is that i teleported it there, rather than moved it there. later i physically moved french units into melun and control passed to the french.

Exactly the cause of the not-out-of-supply! My question is: have you been allowed to redeploy your stacks in Melun even if enemy controlled???
If so, it's a bug!

for the moment lets ignore the french stacks in german controlled regions. lets assume they dont exist.

my issue is really with the fact that the germans near paris are allowed to draw supplys from the french towns. for all intent and purposes they are surrounded and cut off from germany. but because the own these 2 towns they can supply a large number of troops. it just doesnt seem realistic to me. and from what poorboy has posted its against the board game rules for the germans to be drawing supply from captured towns.



now the answer to the other question is yes, when im reassigning troops im being allowed to teleport them into enemy controlled regions.


thank you for your patience.

The problem is that those two german stacks are tracing supply from Melun, who is not under your control (hit F4 and you will see Melun area is red coloured). So the problem is not the supply line, but the fact that you was able to redeploy troops over Melun, enemy controlled. Redeployment does not change the control of target areas, of course, because it's supposed to not be allowed in enemy territory. The funny thing is that I just tried a redeployment in enemy territory and I was not able to do it!

here's a save game that illustrates my main point without involving the redeploy, teleport issue, which must be a bug.


the german stacks surrounded near paris are still in supply only because they own comp and melun.

my issue is why are german stacks that can only trace a supply line to captured towns, allowed to be in supply?

you gotta admit its a little strange for such a large force (thats otherwise surrounded) to be able to draw full supply from just 2 measly captured towns.

in a nut shell i think its unrealistic for captured towns to be used for supply. i guess im asking for a rule (and game) change, so this game matches the board game rules.

i appolgize for not being clearer.

patrat wrote:here's a save game that illustrates my main point without involving the redeploy, teleport issue, which must be a bug.


the german stacks surrounded by paris are still in supply only because they own comp and melun.

my issue is why are german stacks that can only trace a supply line to captured towns, allowed to be in supply?

you gotta admit its a little strange for such a large force (thats otherwise surrounded) to be able to draw full supply from just 2 measly captured towns.

in a nut shell i think its unrealistic for captured towns to be used for supply. i guess im asking for a rule (and game) change, so this game matches the board game rules.

i appolgize for not being clearer.

+1

Ok, debugged and it's a very special occurrence. The German stacks in Melun take supply from Melun because the town of Melun is connected to Compiegne (town too), and viceversa for the German stacks in Compiegne. It's a kind of ping-pong supply. Not realistic, yes, and the point is that once the first connection is established (ie: Melun to Compiegne), further connections should be traced until the algorythm finds a "realistically" German controlled whole region (ie: Belgium)... Well, my worry is that the supply checks algorythm is already extremely complex (damn to boardgame rules) and I risk to work out something that would make the game awfully slow!

thanks calvinus. i must say again that your efforts to improve this game are simply amazing. its sunday afterall.


im new to the game and dont know anything about programming, but would it be easier to leave towns out of the equation entirely and just use citys in the home country as the ultimate supply source.


sorry if thats a stupid idea, as i said im new here.

Never stupid ideas. Using only home-country major-cities would have heavy impacts. To be evalueated anyway...

to return to the redeploy teleport bug.

ive found that i can teleport a unit anywhere just by right clicking on it in the unit viewing window and dragging it wherever i want. i can do this in the military phase not just the redeployment phase. i even managed to do it during the interphase.

ive just teleported a french unit from the paris to berlin, the kaiser wasn't pleased.


occaisionally the game will prevent me from teleporting, but about 90% of the time i can do it.

Ugh!
I removed that cheat some weeks ago! Maybe I missed something!
Ok, I'm going to check it immediately!

I tried both during the Redeployment phase and the Military phase, dragging with the right mouse key onto enemy territory: not possible!

Which version are you playing???

Edit: this cheat has been removed since 1.05G.

im playing the latest beta patch. 1.05L.


it reads the correct verision on the opening screen. is it possiable i somehow got a bad install? do you think a clean install will cure it?



am i correct in assuming its not supposed to be possiable to teleport even to friendly region?

patrat wrote:im playing the latest beta patch. 1.05L.

it reads the correct verision on the opening screen. is it possiable i somehow got a bad install? do you think a clean install will cure it?

Check the version of WW1.exe file (right click on the icon and select the "Properties" option in the popup menu, then search the version): it should be 1.0.5.9

patrat wrote:am i correct in assuming its not supposed to be possiable to teleport even to friendly region?

Yes and no. During the Redeployment phase, you can teleport in your nation-controlled areas (ie: French stacks in French areas or areas where French stacks are present, this is of fundamental importance for the Britons, for example, when they are in the North of France!), not in enemy areas.

it reads 1.0.5.9

So what is the stack that you are able to teleport anywhere and when? I must remove this cheat..

heres how it happens.

i select a stack so i can see the individual corps in the viewing window. i then right click on any corp or support unit. i can then drag it anywhere on the map and drop it. the army assignment window appears, i assign it an army. then the corps appears in the region that i dropped it in.


hope this helps.

Ahh now the difference! You drag a corps, not a stack!

Cheat removed!

the kaiser will be pleased.

no more french corps teleporting to berlin.