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Any chance of a Nap II game complete with campaigns, ala ACW and WWI? I would think those two engines would allow for a great Napoleonic campaign game.

There is definitely a chance, but it's hard to foresee what the future may hold

Maqver wrote:Any chance of a Nap II game complete with campaigns, ala ACW and WWI? I would think those two engines would allow for a great Napoleonic campaign game.

HE said 2010!
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=114727&postcount=2

Well, PT said "not before 2010", which means "not in 2008 or 2009"; he didn't say it would be in 2010, or even if it would be at all.

I.e. my post above is pretty accurate

Not in 2008?!

Just trying to be adamantly clear

Will it be a camaign game similar to ACW or WWI or still be an operational game?

If campaign game, I can wait as long as necessary to get it right!

In my view it should be a grand strategic campaign game, with diplomacy, politics and economics included...

Please don't ditch the operational, single-campaign scenarios, though. Some of us aren't looking to play a grand strategic campaign.

berto wrote:Please don't ditch the operational, single-campaign scenarios, though. Some of us aren't looking to play a grand strategic campaign.

Then no need to wait for NCP2

berto wrote:Please don't ditch the operational, single-campaign scenarios, though. Some of us aren't looking to play a grand strategic campaign.

I'm sure that AACW and WIA serve as good examples that campaigns and scenarios can co-exist in AGE games

Nikel wrote:Then no need to wait for NCP2

I have NCP. I'm looking forward to a new-and-improved NCP2 that includes all of Napoleon's campaigns, not just the incomplete subset in NCP. Also retrofitted enhancements from other games, scenario revamps, OOB & map cleanups, etc.

Rafiki wrote:I'm sure that AACW and WIA serve as good examples that campaigns and scenarios can co-exist in AGE games

Of course, and I have both. PhilThib's comment

In my view it should be a grand strategic campaign game, with diplomacy, politics and economics included...

didn't mention smaller single-campaign scenarios, which might imply that NCP2 would only be a multi-year grand strategic campaign game, and that NCP would remain the game for limited duration, single campaigns.

In general, saying that something should be A doesn't necessarily say that it shouldn't also be B

In general, saying that something should be A doesn't necessarily say that it shouldn't also be B

Aristotle got nothin' on you, brother.

PhilThib wrote:In my view it should be a grand strategic campaign game, with diplomacy, politics and economics included...

It will be a challenge, to get it!
We all know Napoleon Age was not a great conflict but a sequence of campaigns.
A grand strategic campaign game will lead to historically unpredicable and inaccurate results: we'll loose all wonderfull, accurate campaigns OOB that are the main reason for NCP populatiry.
My suggestion is in favour of a sequence of historically accurate Campaigns, like ones we have in NCP, with "peace times" linking them.
To fill "peace times" turns with actions, so to keep users busy, I suggest to introduce the naval warfare related to continental blockade, and some diplomatic actions!
Blockade and counter-blockade could be the key for victory in the grand strategic campaign game, being the factor leading to defeat or to victory Britain the unbeaten Napoleon opponent.

BTW, have some ideas over naval warfare at continental level , (blockade and counter-blockade) it could be worth to try in NCP, may be by 3rd party scenarios......

jastaV, the campaigns, included their OOB are supposed to be the cause of NCP unpopularity, not the contrary.

It is what people were demanding when NCP was released, the strategical Grand Campaign.

It would be funny that AGEod releases a Grand Campaigning NCP2 and then people start to request little campaigns

When VGN is out we will see what those "non militaristic" aspects, diplomacy, economy,... can bring

We all know Napoleon Age was not a great conflict but a sequence of campaigns.

Could not disagree more with this statement.

I think the challenge in a game like this will be getting the unique politcal realities and agendas of the major nations correct and offering unique country speciific solutions to them. Austria for example had unique problems and did not want to modernize or experience nationalism for various reasons, one being its polygot empire. They had to walk a fine line to compete. Prussia had its own solution. Anyway, the game by Matrix didn't do it and the game suffered for it.

(Also, for pbem games, the game should allow for combining some nations into an alliance of sorts so that one player could play both of them against France).

Nikel wrote:jastaV, the campaigns, included their OOB are supposed to be the cause of NCP unpopularity, not the contrary.

It is what people were demanding when NCP was released, the strategical Grand Campaign.

It would be funny that AGEod releases a Grand Campaigning NCP2 and then people start to request little campaigns

When VGN is out we will see what those "non militaristic" aspects, diplomacy, economy,... can bring

AACW grand campaign has a reason to be: American Civil War was a 5 years long conflict.....
Anyway reasons behind AACW popularity are many:
-A GREAT GrandCampaign edited with historical accuracy, a highly balanced game, the easy to manage - hard to master system behind the administrative, political, economical aspects of the war. Not last, U.S. customers sensibility and interest for that subjects: then strong modders/editors going after it keeping that subject hot for years!
A gem is the 1864 election management: at that time, 1864, The Union has a clear superiority and it's close to win! Then the Lincoln re-election issue pups up mixing cards and balancing the match again!
It's perfect: we have game balancing adding challenge, but we have historical flavour too.

Seaking for something like that with with next "generation" NCP, I look with suspect to a Grand Campaign War covering the full time span from Napoleon's rise to his fall.
On the contrary a sequence of campaigns or wars will look better!
The idea of the Continental blockade-counter blockade struggle to fill "no-war-turns" was then an historical solution.
Of course I have no idea of what could be behind the corner with VGN: no doubts new dimensions, (diplomacy, economy, trade) could be introduced and that they could work great in Napoleon Age games too....... Then, from present days to 2010 many things could chance!

I first bought this game to play campaigns, not a decade long war. Issues with scenarios, map, and oobs are only being addressed by stalwart(s) like jasta, who has figured out the obtuse modding system.

Aegod is still getting ACW right, because they have an active modding community (and the game Sells). BOA 2 looks like it's getting there.

Aegod is quite busy fixing WWI, and developing a new game.

I understand why their effort has not been put into maintaining/upgrading this game.

This is not meant to be critical: I think Aegod does as well as they can

FM WarB wrote:I first bought this game to play campaigns, not a decade long war.

+1

Aegod is still getting ACW right, because they have an active modding community (and the game Sells).

Could be there is a link between its sales and that it has a full campaign.

Anyway, from what I got out of the post above is that there will be both so why the fuss?

The main thing is that no decisions have been made regarding a possible future NCP2, including the decision on whether ot not there will be a NCP2.

(Yeah, I can be a killjoy, but I just want to make sure that there are no misunderstandings )

FM WarB wrote:I first bought this game to play campaigns, not a decade long war. Issues with scenarios, map, and oobs are only being addressed by stalwart(s) like jasta, who has figured out the obtuse modding system.

Aegod is still getting ACW right, because they have an active modding community (and the game Sells). BOA 2 looks like it's getting there.

Aegod is quite busy fixing WWI, and developing a new game.

I understand why their effort has not been put into maintaining/upgrading this game.

This is not meant to be critical: I think Aegod does as well as they can

AGEod codes are complex: it has been already pointed out that missing an editing guide modding is obtuse to novices. That humpers newcomers trying to join AGEod modding community.
Anyway, NCP has it's own active modding team: you did not mentioned Nikel that recentely produced a mess of high quality portraits,.... or arsan: he is behind spanish translations.
Although AGEod is going after new projects and fixing WWI game, till is supporting NCP improvements: we recentely got a new patch.......
But that Pocus, Lodi', Primasprint are behind my modding efforts clarifing dark sides of the obtuse modding system.

Maqver wrote:Could be there is a link between its sales and that it has a full campaign.

Few users have pointed out that, reporting their regret when discovered NCP has not a GrandCampaign.
For enthusiastic gamers of Napoleonic warfare, that's not a problem.

I suspect major sales of AACW and WiA are related to their subject: U.S. marked is wide, and can make the difference, and U.S. people seems to be mostly interested on own history dedicated games.
Guess AGEod has competence to clarify this issue, looking at selling % per country/area.

BTW, I bought NCP, Boa, AACW, WiA, WWI, in this order.
Not tried WWI yet: modding NCP is time-hungly affair!
I agree AACW offers best gaming experience at all.
WiA is OK, although an outdated graphic.
NCP, but its great care for historical accuracy, (see OOB, flavour events,....) has an outstanding graphic, a thing many PC games should look to when buying a game!

jastaV wrote:Few users have pointed out that, reporting their regret when discovered NCP has not a GrandCampaign.
For enthusiastic gamers of Napoleonic warfare, that's not a problem.

I suspect major sales of AACW and WiA are related to their subject: U.S. marked is wide, and can make the difference, and U.S. people seems to be mostly interested on own history dedicated games.
Guess AGEod has competence to clarify this issue, looking at selling % per country/area.

BTW, I bought NCP, Boa, AACW, WiA, WWI, in this order.
Not tried WWI yet: modding NCP is time-hungly affair!
I agree AACW offers best gaming experience at all.
WiA is OK, although an outdated graphic.
NCP, but its great care for historical accuracy, (see OOB, flavour events,....) has an outstanding graphic, a thing many PC games should look to when buying a game!

In agreement

I also have these games and NCP historically is the best

Few users have pointed out that, reporting their regret when discovered NCP has not a GrandCampaign.

Well, I'm sure you're right though I am one of those few. Besides, when and if the time comes for them to decide whether to move forward on it, then there will be plenty of market research and direct and indirect polling to determine what is viable and wanted. I, for one, hope it is a game that accounts for the political, econominc and cultural necessities and goals of the major participants not divorced from military operations. Should be a fun wait though.

Maqver wrote:Well, I'm sure you're right though I am one of those few. Besides, when and if the time comes for them to decide whether to move forward on it, then there will be plenty of market research and direct and indirect polling to determine what is viable and wanted. I, for one, hope it is a game that accounts for the political, econominc and cultural necessities and goals of the major participants not divorced from military operations. Should be a fun wait though.

I am another. I was kind of hoping for a 'Grand Campaign'.

However, I am also aware that I am totally at a loss how they would model it. The other AGEOD games have a structured and fixed concept of 'sides' in the Grand Campaigns: BOA/WiA you have Brits versus the USA or Brits versus France for example. AACW you have the Union Vs the CSA with the chance that the Euros join the CSA.

For the Napoleonic era, the only 'static' nation was Britain who opposed Napoleon. Most (not all) other nations were both against and allied to France (Prussia against Napoleon until defeated and then fighting with Napoleon in Russia to against again for example). Heck, you even have France changing sides (defeat of Napoleon, restoration of the Bourbon's).

If AGEOD could overcome these 'switches' that would be excellent and you could see perhaps the best dynamic campaign in any AGEOD game.

Ayeshteni

Ayeshteni wrote:However, I am also aware that I am totally at a loss how they would model it. The other AGEOD games have a structured and fixed concept of 'sides' in the Grand Campaigns: BOA/WiA you have Brits versus the USA or Brits versus France for example. AACW you have the Union Vs the CSA with the chance that the Euros join the CSA.

You pointed out a good observation!
In AGEod engine, as it works at present, Neutral Powers can join one side according to scripted commands.
You' should have noticed all neutral powers, per any scenario, are alligned so to enter that same side: the weaker one. The other side, at best can mavouver to keep them on a neutral position..... That's hard coded!
May be changes will come with VGN.........
Notice: may be means I hope so! I'm not going after VGN development and news..... for reason of time!

Seems to me that in a two player (or one player against the AI) it would have to England versus France. The English player would raise and command Coalitions (nations would come and go according to their fear of France and how bad they were beat in the last war.) English could subsidize partners (until they quit) So in most cases it would always be the Brits and another major land power against the French. As the game goes on the coalitions would get bigger and more coherent until Europe overwhelms Napoleon.