AGEOD Forums

I've played the demo of Rise of Prussia.
I find here, compared to American Civil War, many improvements. The most of them I like.

Will we see some of these improvements in AACW soon?

AACW has seen many features backported from successive AGE games; which improvements are you missing, that you would like to see in AACW?

@ Rafiki,

sorry if I sound arrogant now, but the new detailed battle report is a must have!

Even the counter in the battle circle, I find quite good.
The stack navigator and the army outliner shortcut would be welcome additions.

I´ve mixed feelings about the 3-D option mode. It´s a nice addition, but cavalry and artillery units should look like as cavalry and artillery units!

In no case, the new replacement pool system and the new construction mode!
Both I don´t like and I´m struggling to purchase the game for this.

Templer wrote:In no case, the new replacement pool system and the new construction mode!
Both I don´t like and I´m struggling to purchase the game for this.

Spoken right out of my heart! I am still wondering who came up with the idea of introducing three different ways to get replacements into RoP. Calculating replacement needs has become a pain in the ***.

The construction mode however, isn't that bad: it has at least one huge advantage: you determine in which city a new unit is built, and not just in which state as in ACW!
On the other hand, it also has one big disadvantage: You don't see the power of a unit in the construction window. Especially comparing infantry units has become guess-work. No idea why that simply information was excluded.

And you have forgotten another big improvement: the AI has gotten better (although there is always room for improvement).

If I were you, I would give RoP another shot. It is worth it!

No harm in expressing wishes, guys; never considered that to be arrogant

However, keep in mind that AACW is an old game, and AGEOD's efforts these days need to be focused on PoN. Personally, I hope that we'll see an AACW2 at some point, standing on the shoulders of AACW and other AGE games. Time will have to tell if that will happen

OneArmedMexican wrote:Spoken right out of my heart! I am still wondering who came up with the idea of introducing three different ways to get replacements into RoP. Calculating replacement needs has become a pain in the ***.

The construction mode however, isn't that bad: it has at least one huge advantage: you determine in which city a new unit is built, and not just in which state as in ACW!
On the other hand, it also has one big disadvantage: You don't see the power of a unit in the construction window. Especially comparing infantry units has become guess-work. No idea why that simply information was excluded.

And you have forgotten another big improvement: the AI has gotten better (although there is always room for improvement).

If I were you, I would give RoP another shot. It is worth it!

@ OneArmedMexican,

What annoys me on the construction mode :
In AACW, as the master brain I can command: ...I need and this and that units, I order for my needs, here is my money/costs.
So my staff response: "...we see what can be done and we set the units there to where it is easiest to make.

In RoP I am not feeling like a master brain. If I need units, I have to ask (a dealer), what types of units you can offer me today?
My dealer will response: "Where do you want your shipment delivered?"

I do not like this feeling. And this feeling should not be adjusted if you are the commander in chief.

So yes, the AI. When and where possible I would like to see if the AI would be improved in AACW.
The AI can never be good enough!

I give RoP another shot.
I just started playing RoP (of course I have not read the manual) and discover the fun way the differences to AACW.

What I do not even like in Rop:
In AACW I have the possibility of destruction the railway tracks to disrupt the infrastructure of the enemy (For me that´s fun).
In RoP there are no railway tracks (Or the guys have a good camouflage. Made in Germany). I miss now here , so I personally think, an important tactical element.
Is there an alternative in RoP to disturb the opponent in such way?

And I think for a strategy/war game the music is not well chosen. I am a lover of classical music. But in RoP I miss motivation to be combative.
No bonnie blue flag here!

It is more the way:
Honey, let's have a cup of tea.
Oh darling, you're always so wild and fierce.

I am too spoiled by AACW.

AGEOD keep in mind 3 years old but AACW is still you masterpice!
...my 2ct.


@ Rafiki,

so none of this is feasible?

AACW2...when, where. Where to place my preorder. My bank account is §%("%/(§!
Hurry up, I will try, but I dont think I will live forever - I guess. apy:

Can you develop about the tedious way of acquiring replacements in ROP please?

Pocus wrote:Can you develop about the tedious way of acquiring replacements in ROP please?

I also like the replacement /reinforcement system of AACW more than that of ROP. Even if ROP allows to choose exactly where reinforcments arrive.

The one in AACW is just clearer to look at and needs less mouse clicking.

AACW and ROP both have one Icon each for Reinf/Repl.

Replacements
But in AACW you can inspect accumulated Repl. Elements and buy new ones in one window.
In ROP you have to move between some 10 window pages to inspect the actual replacement pool and all those options to buy new replacements. To me this is not very clear. Instead of virtually representing all repl. elements on hand one by one by Nato/Otan symbols (inf, inf, inf), it would be better just to combine a number and a symbol (3 x inf). And then you have those big atmospheric painting buttons for buying repl. Because of all that you need 10 window pages alone for repl. This is not very clear and it needs a lot of mouse clicks. Plus the Replacement issue is further complicated by depot bns., which are dealt with in the Reinf. section.

Reinforcments:
In AACW you can’t decide, in which city exactly to place reinf. Thus you can have one big window, where buildable units are clearly sorted by type (with a sub window) and there by region (which even was depicted on some minimap, IRC) For me this is a clear system managable with only few clicks.

In ROP, because you can choose cities on the map for placing reinf., you need to watch the main map while doing so. A mini map probably wouldn’t do it. But this means you can’t have one big window for seeing all the reinf. pool at one glance. Instead, you’ll have to scroll through a rather small Reinf. bar at the bottom. Even if you are helped by those selection filters for types and nationalities – you can’t even see the sub-pools at one glance. At least playing Prussia, often there really aren’t much choices for placing reinf. on the map anyway. So you deal a huge chunk of interface clearliness to just a little bit of additional player choices. For me not a good deal.

This is all said – just because I really like your games.

Regards

Pocus wrote:Can you develop about the tedious way of acquiring replacements in ROP please?

I'm sorry. I have just described my impressions. I thought it would be legal.

And no. I can not.

Templer wrote:@ Rafiki,

so none of this is feasible?

AACW2...when, where. Where to place my preorder. My bank account is §%("%/(§!
Hurry up, I will try, but I dont think I will live forever - I guess. apy:

I try to make a point about not predicting too much about the future, especially when it comes to things I have little knowledge about or influence over; doesn't mean I don't enjoy some honest speculation, though

However, facts of the matter are that the time the devs can devote to AACW is severly limited. At this point, the only thing that can be expected is that if any game-breaking bugs manifest themselves, they will most likely be addressed. Anything beyond that will have to be taken as an unexpected bonus.

As for AACW2? Even its unofficial status is "gee, I wonder what that might look like if we ever should get the chance to revisit the ACW?", so make sure that you don't start holding your breath anytime soon...

Templer wrote:What I do not even like in Rop:
In AACW I have the possibility of destruction the railway tracks to disrupt the infrastructure of the enemy (For me that´s fun).
In RoP there are no railway tracks (Or the guys have a good camouflage. Made in Germany). I miss now here , so I personally think, an important tactical element.
Is there an alternative in RoP to disturb the opponent in such way?

If there is I haven't found it. It is a shame that railroads weren't invented earlier in history.
However, the good old cavalry raid still works and there are enough cities without walls as targets.

Templer wrote:And I think for a strategy/war game the music is not well chosen. I am a lover of classical music. But in RoP I miss motivation to be combative.
No bonnie blue flag here!

It is more the way:
Honey, let's have a cup of tea.
Oh darling, you're always so wild and fierce.


I am too spoiled by AACW.

Hilarious post, I have to thank you for a good laugh.

Pocus wrote:Can you develop about the tedious way of acquiring replacements in ROP please?

wosung wrote:Replacements
But in AACW you can inspect accumulated Repl. Elements and buy new ones in one window.
In ROP you have to move between some 10 window pages to inspect the actual replacement pool and all those options to buy new replacements. To me this is not very clear. Instead of virtually representing all repl. elements on hand one by one by Nato/Otan symbols (inf, inf, inf), it would be better just to combine a number and a symbol (3 x inf). And then you have those big atmospheric painting buttons for buying repl. Because of all that you need 10 window pages alone for repl. This is not very clear and it needs a lot of mouse clicks. Plus the Replacement issue is further complicated by depot bns., which are dealt with in the Reinf. section.

That sums it up rather nicely. Planning replacement needs has become a rather tiresome task:
1) Scroll through the list of available replacements and determine the most pressing shortages.
2) Scroll through up to five pages of political options (in order to get one or two replacements).
3) Back to the main map and into the construction menu (in order to built some depot units).
4) Hope that you have enough conscripts left for some to be transformed into replacements automatically (the "if", "how many" and "of which nationality" being beyond my influence as player).

As compared to this multi-step task, ACW offered a clear overview within one ledger.

Dear AGEOD,
you make extraordinary games and I am a huge fan, but in my humble opinion the new replacement system is something you fumbled.
I am not asking you to change it in RoP; one can get used to it after all. But please don't use this system in future games.

You should get a better AACW AI during december 2010, in the most advanced version of AACW, SVF mod.

Clovis wrote:You should get a better AACW AI during december 2010, in the most advanced version of AACW, SVF mod.

Woo hoo! I've been waiting for a new SVF.

Svf?

Farseer wrote:Svf?

"Struggle for a Vast Future" is Clovis' excellent and far-ranging mod for the AACW main campaigns. He has done amazing work tailoring the AI, the economy, and other aspects of the game.

It's available in the modding forum here, but I don't think the most recent version is compatible with the recent beta patches for AACW.

Paul Roberts wrote:"Struggle for a Vast Future" is Clovis' excellent and far-ranging mod for the AACW main campaigns. He has done amazing work tailoring the AI, the economy, and other aspects of the game.

It's available in the modding forum here, but I don't think the most recent version is compatible with the recent beta patches for AACW.

Unfortunatly no. but the work i've done in ROP and RUS, when adapted back to AACW, should improve the AI by a very important margin, especially for North. I know now how to force AGE to attack along supply line and fall back when isolated or during wnter.

Clovis wrote:You should get a better AACW AI during december 2010, in the most advanced version of AACW, SVF mod.

It´s christmas time.....

Athena is the only woman I know so far wich becomes more beautiful, more wrinkle-free and more intelligent at age.

Templer wrote:It´s christmas time.....

Athena is the only woman I know so far wich becomes more beautiful, more wrinkle-free and more intelligent at age.

The men I know can't compare either.

Is there a more detailed writeup of the changes in SVF (compared to vanilla AACW) somewhere that I can read? You've made me quite curious about it.

Farseer wrote:Is there a more detailed writeup of the changes in SVF (compared to vanilla AACW) somewhere that I can read? You've made me quite curious about it.

Go the modding section of these forums and look for the AACW section. There will be a long thread for SVF. The changes are listed there.

Or just click here:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=16957

Clovis wrote:You should get a better AACW AI during december 2010, in the most advanced version of AACW, SVF mod.

Thank you Santa Claus I can't wait for it

Clovis, I read this on your blog :

Ageod has created rather recently some new scripting tools helping to do so more easily

Could you tell me more on these tools or is there a place where I could find more information ?

OneArmedMexican wrote:Dear AGEOD,
you make extraordinary games and I am a huge fan, but in my humble opinion the new replacement system is something you fumbled.
I am not asking you to change it in RoP; one can get used to it after all. But please don't use this system in future games.

I will sign word for word.

Never argue with an armed Mexican!

wosung wrote:I also like the replacement /reinforcement system of AACW more than that of ROP. Even if ROP allows to choose exactly where reinforcments arrive.

The one in AACW is just clearer to look at and needs less mouse clicking.

AACW and ROP both have one Icon each for Reinf/Repl.

Replacements
But in AACW you can inspect accumulated Repl. Elements and buy new ones in one window.
In ROP you have to move between some 10 window pages to inspect the actual replacement pool and all those options to buy new replacements. To me this is not very clear. Instead of virtually representing all repl. elements on hand one by one by Nato/Otan symbols (inf, inf, inf), it would be better just to combine a number and a symbol (3 x inf). And then you have those big atmospheric painting buttons for buying repl. Because of all that you need 10 window pages alone for repl. This is not very clear and it needs a lot of mouse clicks. Plus the Replacement issue is further complicated by depot bns., which are dealt with in the Reinf. section.

Reinforcments:
In AACW you can’t decide, in which city exactly to place reinf. Thus you can have one big window, where buildable units are clearly sorted by type (with a sub window) and there by region (which even was depicted on some minimap, IRC) For me this is a clear system managable with only few clicks.

In ROP, because you can choose cities on the map for placing reinf., you need to watch the main map while doing so. A mini map probably wouldn’t do it. But this means you can’t have one big window for seeing all the reinf. pool at one glance. Instead, you’ll have to scroll through a rather small Reinf. bar at the bottom. Even if you are helped by those selection filters for types and nationalities – you can’t even see the sub-pools at one glance. At least playing Prussia, often there really aren’t much choices for placing reinf. on the map anyway. So you deal a huge chunk of interface clearliness to just a little bit of additional player choices. For me not a good deal.

This is all said – just because I really like your games.

Regards

The issue with the AACW version is that new units are created anywhere in the area. This is outside the players control. This can cause you to waste precious resources building a new unit that is destroyed the same turn it is created as the other side marches in to capture that city/town. I can say there is nothing worse than watching a unit be destroyed before you can use it, and giving your opponent a NM point for destroying 4,5, or 6 elements of a unit that cost a fortune to produce. You can't even retreat it, as it is locked until the build is finished.

Jim-NC wrote:The issue with the AACW version is that new units are created anywhere in the area. This is outside the players control. This can cause you to waste precious resources building a new unit that is destroyed the same turn it is created as the other side marches in to capture that city/town. I can say there is nothing worse than watching a unit be destroyed before you can use it, and giving your opponent a NM point for destroying 4,5, or 6 elements of a unit that cost a fortune to produce. You can't even retreat it, as it is locked until the build is finished.

Yes I know. But nevertheless I'd wish having reinforcement choices and replacement choices each in as few windows as possible just to get an easy overview and to minimizing clickfeasts.

Maybe there are ways to have both, eggs and omletts? (Mind you I'm not the poor coder who has to put things together, just argueing from my own player's POV.

What about AACW reinforcement UI as it is combined with auto-routines for placing reinforcements not in a besieged city or placing reinforcements as far as possible from enemy threats in the chosen state?

What about AACW reinforcement UI as it with choices for cities to place them by clicking on blinking dots on the mini-map? Or by clicking on the chosen city in a text menue combined with a blinking dot on the minimap?

And what about replacements, should they also be distributed by the player?

Just kicking around some ideas. And also thinking of the possible UI in Pride of Nations. Perhaps there you'll have even more units, options and map regions.


Regards

Mickey3D wrote:Clovis, I read this on your blog :



Could you tell me more on these tools or is there a place where I could find more information ?

On the Agewiki, detaling all script commands and especially those related to AI

I see we have two points of view.

As mentioned above once I understand the matter in AACW like this:
I am the General and call the President for reinforcements.
The President does what he can and is building the reinforcements where necessary staff is to find.
Will the city then, while new units are created, captured, well - so that's life or that´s war or is based on William Tecumseh Sherman
while destroying the peaceful Columbia "yah, yah, war is cruel." oke:
(For this Sherman bites the dust as soon I find him in AACW).
In this way, what happend to Vicksburg?

And who assures to me that the cities where I formed my new troops, won´t be taken by a rapid and unexpected advance of the enemy?
So should I train my troops as far away from danger zones?
Well then there is a long way to Tipperary if I need them!

I don´t like the new system in RoP.
The ledger in AACW was much clearer, easier and less stressful - and by the way very much nicer.

I still hesitate to purchase RoP. And have an eye on NCP now.
I must also confess RoP has something. Something that I can´t explain, even I am not very interested in the period and the conflict. But the more I play, the more I like the demo (if it don´t crash again).

Should we not move a part of this thread to the RoP Forum?
I am very interested on the subject about the new replacements and reinforcments system, and would like to read more opinions of players how are familiar to AACW and RoP.

Ahm, about the topic.

In RoP there is now a step by step battle description in the the message log.
That is great!

A chance to see this in AACW?

Templer wrote:I see we have two points of view.

As mentioned above once I understand the matter in AACW like this:
I am the General and call the President for reinforcements.
The President does what he can and is building the reinforcements where necessary staff is to find.
Will the city then, while new units are created, captured, well - so that's life or that´s war or is based on William Tecumseh Sherman
while destroying the peaceful Columbia "yah, yah, war is cruel." oke:
(For this Sherman bites the dust as soon I find him in AACW).
In this way, what happend to Vicksburg?

And who assures to me that the cities where I formed my new troops, won´t be taken by a rapid and unexpected advance of the enemy?
So should I train my troops as far away from danger zones?
Well then there is a long way to Tipperary if I need them!

I don´t like the new system in RoP.
The ledger in AACW was much clearer, easier and less stressful - and by the way very much nicer.

I still hesitate to purchase RoP. And have an eye on NCP now.
I must also confess RoP has something. Something that I can´t explain, even I am not very interested in the period and the conflict. But the more I play, the more I like the demo (if it don´t crash again).

Should we not move a part of this thread to the RoP Forum?
I am very interested on the subject about the new replacements and reinforcments system, and would like to read more opinions of players how are familiar to AACW and RoP.

Try RUS. You will have the rOP system but with much less units at start so it will be easier to learn the nw system. NCP isn't as good as other AGE products.

Clovis wrote:Try RUS. You will have the rOP system but with much less units at start so it will be easier to learn the nw system. NCP isn't as good as other AGE products.

Thank you for your honesty.
RUS well, I never have - and I never will play on a russian national side.

I'm sorry. But that's me.

But I am sure I will chatch Pride of Nations.