AGEOD Forums

Dear fellows can you tell us-the community - something about the planned release date for BOA 2.0. We can´t wait any longer :sigh.

greetings

Hohenlohe

In december at the earliest, but it can be Q1 2008. Yes I know, this is a long delay.

Pocus wrote:In december at the earliest, but it can be Q1 2008. Yes I know, this is a long delay.

Personally, I think you guys should put your efforts into another title.

As for BoA, maybe someday, there can be an "expansion set" (i.e. not a stand-alone game), that fixes up some of the remaining issues, adds a few more units and scenarios (i.e 1750-1815), and more (many more) portraits.

I don't think a new map is necessary, just fix up the one we have got now. Fifteen day turns, would be a mistake, IMHO. Other complexities, ala AACW, though interesting, may not appeal to everyone.

The game as it stands now, is very nice, and you can actually finish the scenarios. The land/sea regions are of sufficient size, that you can actually see and appreciate the art work, without the map becoming so cluttered with counters and informational do-dads.

Most of all, I would like to see a lot more art. When, you display the detail for a unit, you see many more soldier graphics in the bottom box. Not just the privates, but also the officers, NCO's, musicians, standard bearers, or what-ever can fit into the bottom rectangle.

Sometimes, I think, gamers are the ones most active in the community, so their voices are heard more times than not. But, in this case, I really don't think the game needs that much work.

Regards,

Stwa

OK,

Maybe the game has a few problems after all

1. Spanish Army (Valdez Commanding) captures Vincennes - September 3, 1779.

2. Spanish Army (Valdez Commanding) captures Fort Detroit - September 23, 1779.

I wonder if I can get my hands on an origianal map, without the Vincennes Box?

The new map will reach as far as the Ozarks, with regions instead of boxes...that should help

PhilThib wrote:The new map will reach as far as the Ozarks, with regions instead of boxes...that should help

Only problem is, I am already starting to mod. I am ramping up pretty fast! (unusual considering my age).

Any way, have already done a lot of string work, mostly ripping stuff from Wilkipedia, and inserting it into game, re-doing the centering and text positioning in the ledger, and NOW and I am attempting to mod the map.

Based on what you have said, the game would have lake Huron and New Orleans for a more "complete" 1812 war? Otherwise, what would be the point, unless I am forgetting something here, which could be the case.

May be you could contact me by email at pthibaut@ageod.com in order we can find a way to work together on this

PhilThib wrote:May be you could contact me by email at pthibaut@ageod.com in order we can find a way to work together on this

Uh oh! Sorry, I will chill! Great game, and I am sure BoA Gold will be just as outstanding as the original BoA!

The most important thing to do in BoA Gold is to improve the AI. I would really like to see an AI that builds depots in smart places to help it keep big armies properly supplied along an advance. I'd like to see an AI that will destroy a depot if it appears threatened by a large enemy army to keep an invading army from resupplying quickly. I'd like to see an AI that repairs it's units at depots rather than just keep running them around until they die off.

I tried the 1755 scenario as the Brits on normal level and was dismayed with how quickly the French AI frittered away it's armies. I took Quebec in 1758 via amphibious invasion without much of a fight because I figured the French AI didn't keep Quebec garrisoned beyond the locked up units and I was not disappointed. I even had to backtrack to take Louisburg from Quebec as I forgot about that fortress. I'd like to see an AI that plays defense when it is supposed to, not just AI's that are far too aggressive all the time. The French AI was very poor at taking Albany and even in my first foray in that scenario I found it way too easy to counter French attacks and begin my attacks before what was done historically. Instead of trying to counter my move up from Albany to Montreal the French AI was dorking around Crown Point and running around Lake Champlain in the middle of winter. I'd like to see an AI that parks it during the winter months and recovers unit strength and supplies.

As far as timing goes I'd rather wait for a really good upgrade than get one that's still messed up and needs more fixing sooner. I really liked the new 1775 alt. scenario and would like to see all scenarios get that kind of treatment.
Omnius

Omnius wrote:The most important thing to do in BoA Gold is to improve the AI. I would really like to see an AI that builds depots in smart places to help it keep big armies properly supplied along an advance. I'd like to see an AI that will destroy a depot if it appears threatened by a large enemy army to keep an invading army from resupplying quickly. I'd like to see an AI that repairs it's units at depots rather than just keep running them around until they die off.

I tried the 1755 scenario as the Brits on normal level and was dismayed with how quickly the French AI frittered away it's armies. I took Quebec in 1758 via amphibious invasion without much of a fight because I figured the French AI didn't keep Quebec garrisoned beyond the locked up units and I was not disappointed. I even had to backtrack to take Louisburg from Quebec as I forgot about that fortress. I'd like to see an AI that plays defense when it is supposed to, not just AI's that are far too aggressive all the time. The French AI was very poor at taking Albany and even in my first foray in that scenario I found it way too easy to counter French attacks and begin my attacks before what was done historically. Instead of trying to counter my move up from Albany to Montreal the French AI was dorking around Crown Point and running around Lake Champlain in the middle of winter. I'd like to see an AI that parks it during the winter months and recovers unit strength and supplies.

As far as timing goes I'd rather wait for a really good upgrade than get one that's still messed up and needs more fixing sooner. I really liked the new 1775 alt. scenario and would like to see all scenarios get that kind of treatment.
Omnius

Disd you tried with a small Fog of War advantage to the AI? It enhances AI IMHO

Clovis wrote:Disd you tried with a small Fog of War advantage to the AI? It enhances AI IMHO

Clovis,
I tried the AI on the hardest level with no fog of war and still it is rather dumb and acts pretty much the same. I did notice it was a little smarter at not making dumb moves like waking up the Indians prematurely but it still plays dumb as far as supply goes. All the hardest level does is release locked units earlier for the AI, gives it combat advantages and more replacements. I would really love to see an AI that actually plays smarter as the difficulty level increases instead of playing the same dumb AI with combat and manpower boosts. Especially the combat advantages as I would rather be able to have normal combat. Like most all computer wargames it seems they have lots of spiffy options like unit repair or building depots that the AI just doesn't do. AI's need to have the programming to do anything we can do in the game or it is fighting us with one hand tied behind it's back.
Omnius

AI is always a work in progress. Sorry that it disappoints you so much, but just go check the AI logs and you will get a small glimpse of how much time it tooks to just have it reach this weak level of proficiency.

There is still some light at the end of the tunnel though, as the BOA AI is not using the latest AI code though (the one used in AACW), so with the BOA patch I will issue next week, you will get some improvements, but this won't be Deep Blue (which only play Chess, a simple game compared to any wargames).

Pocus wrote:AI is always a work in progress. Sorry that it disappoints you so much, but just go check the AI logs and you will get a small glimpse of how much time it tooks to just have it reach this weak level of proficiency.

There is still some light at the end of the tunnel though, as the BOA AI is not using the latest AI code though (the one used in AACW), so with the BOA patch I will issue next week, you will get some improvements, but this won't be Deep Blue (which only play Chess, a simple game compared to any wargames).

Pocus,
Don't think I'm picking on just your AI in BoA as I see the same problems in all AI's in all games I play. It's really sad that so many games have features we humans can take advantage of yet the AI's don't. All AI's are way too busy in attacking when playing defense yields important advantages.

I wish the AI would repair units and learn to rest units during the winter months the way it should be done. I was playing as the Brits in the 1755 campaign on normal level and saw that the French AI wasted those valuable Indians down south attacking worthless forts while I took Fort Duquesne after losing one and then winning one battle with Braddock. When I play the French I use those Indian warrior bands to help defend Fort Duquense and I've hung on to it through 1757 so far. The French AI wasted it's small army rather early on and I was able to capture all objectives by fall 1759. As the French I took Albany early and have been able to fend off all AI attacks because the AI isn't good at coordinating two large armies to attack at the same time when they're both there at the same time. I ended up whipping one big army and the other ran away after I reinforced the Albany army. I figure I'll have to bail out in 1758 but before I do I'll blow the depot as I move away knowing that will make it harder for the British AI to attack Montreal. Too bad the AI doesn't know how to build or destroy depots.

One bad problem is the AI makes senseless attacks in obtuse places. As the French I killed off George Washington at Trois Points in 1757 because the AI had him up there commanding one Indian warrior band and it kept him there long enough that I could wait for reinforcements and then crush that little force. A real waste of a good leader attacking somewhere useless. I just ignore all that AI nonsense of attacking everywhere and concentrate on objectives that give me victory points. After a successful attack I stop and repair and refit my army before moving on while the AI just goes off on another wild tangent.

Until we all have Cray supercomputers on our desks it would be rather tough to create an AI wargame equivalent to the Deep Blue chess computer. But that doesn't mean AI's can't be improved by doing some simple things like making sure that if features are in the game then by golly the AI should be programmed to use all of them. Slow down the AI's and make them play more defensively, especially when they're in a strategic position that dictates it like the British in 1755 and 1775 to start. Make AI's go back to depots to repair and refit their units after a big battle so they stay more competitive longer. Make the AI's concentrate on a few (or one) important objectives at a time rather than this willy nilly attack everywhere concept that has never worked in any game.
Omnius

That is interesting, because some of the points you address have been at least partially improved in the AACW patch 1.06, so I expect that it will do good to boa too. For example, the AI seeking shelter in winter is far better now.
The problem, lets be honest, is not that we are not competent enough (well most of us ) to code a better AI, but that it takes a tremendous amount of time to do so, and in small team time is short. I would expect the Civ IV AI to be better than mine for example, as they have at least one person if not two, full time on it, but frankly, allow me to say that I find the ACW one better (especially if you consider some of the rules in AACW, like the command chain)...

Pocus wrote:That is interesting, because some of the points you address have been at least partially improved in the AACW patch 1.06, so I expect that it will do good to boa too. For example, the AI seeking shelter in winter is far better now.
The problem, lets be honest, is not that we are not competent enough (well most of us ) to code a better AI, but that it takes a tremendous amount of time to do so, and in small team time is short. I would expect the Civ IV AI to be better than mine for example, as they have at least one person if not two, full time on it, but frankly, allow me to say that I find the ACW one better (especially if you consider some of the rules in AACW, like the command chain)...

Pocus,
Yeah I've seen where multiple iterations of the same game system tend to allow programmers to make better AI's. Hopefully you'll be putting out enough iterations to program the AI to do those smart things like building and destroying depots since depots tend to be the most important item on the map. I also hope you'll make the AI slow down and play defense, especially for a side that should be doing it. Plus cut way down on the Hail-Mary type attacks and concentrate more on the important objectives. I keep looking for AACW at the store but haven't seen it yet. I don't like shopping on the net or buying downloads, I like the good old brick-and-mortar stores like Target for my shopping.
Omnius

I agree with alot of what Omnius has to say about the AI. But I think Pocus will get the AI to work better sooner or later. I'm Looking forward to the update Pocus, especially the part about the AI seeking shelter during the winter turns. In my last game, the Brits almost destroy themselves in the freezing cold with no supplies or depots to go too.