pantsukki
Brigadier General
Posts: 481
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Locked units and MTSG

Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:13 am

Am I correct in assuming that locked units are unable to help their neighbours in battle?

epaminondas
Colonel
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:35 pm

Re: Locked units and MTSG

Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:30 pm

As I recall the tool-tip says that they remain locked for the specified period unless attacked, so it would follow that they can't assist neighbouring units while still locked. But there's then the issue of what constitutes an attack. I'm close to certain that I encountered an occasion when a permanently locked unit inside a fortification remained locked after other "outside" units in the same region were attacked.

Just seen it confirmed - Breslau Division locked in fort for 400+ turns "unless attacked" has in fact been attacked but remains locked. Can't believe anything it seems.

pantsukki
Brigadier General
Posts: 481
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Locked units and MTSG

Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:58 am

But if the locked unit was inside a fort/city (as the German named divisions by default are) then it isn't attacked until there is an assault, is it?

epaminondas
Colonel
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:35 pm

Re: Locked units and MTSG

Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:51 am

That's an excellent point. The city was attacked but whether that involved an assault isn't clear. I'll go back and try to identify the actual position of each unit in Breslau at setup. Nothing had moved in since then but it's possible that all the others were in the city rather than the fort so I'll check to see whether that is represented in some way.

Nope all starting units in Breslau begin in the fort, but while the Breslau Garrison was freed up by the attack the Breslau Division was not. I'll try to reconstruct the turn and play through a few times just to make sure it wasn't a freak glitch.

epaminondas
Colonel
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:35 pm

Re: Locked units and MTSG

Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:26 am

Okay, this has gotten way too opaque. As noted above all the German units starting in Breslau are identified as being inside the fort. The fort is attacked/assaulted - can't tell which order was in play. But the only unit shown to be defending in the battle graphic is the fortress!

That would fit your idea that the Breslau Division (and the Breslau Garrison this time 'round) were not actually attacked and so remain locked. But, since they're sitting in the same spot, why weren't they? And how the blue blazes does the system determine what gets attacked and what doesn't?

EDIT

Finally something definitive. Ran it again and when the system decides to include potentially moveable units in the combat (in this case the Stadtgarrison and the Breslau Division) they are indeed freed for subsequent movement.

pantsukki
Brigadier General
Posts: 481
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Locked units and MTSG

Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:29 pm

But that still doesn't definitively answer my original question :eyebrow:

epaminondas
Colonel
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:35 pm

Re: Locked units and MTSG

Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:24 am

I think it probably does. If you put together all the bits and pieces I've just churned through, and if by "neighbours" you mean friendly units in the same region, the answer is "no" - you're not correct. Provided that the system selects them into the combat, using a method which remains unknown to us, it seems they can assist their neighbours.

pantsukki
Brigadier General
Posts: 481
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: Locked units and MTSG

Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:51 am

By neighbour I mean units in adjacent provinces. My PBEM campaign is nearing the moment when my opponent gets hit by mutinies, and I'm trying to plan ahead. I've never played this far and thus am wondering how isolated stacks I'll be fighting when the mutinies hit.

epaminondas
Colonel
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:35 pm

Re: Locked units and MTSG

Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:09 am

Ahh - in that case I'm afraid I don't have much to offer. If we're to believe the description in the tool-tip it seems obvious that since it's not attacked itself the locked unit wouldn't be released. I can't recall any instance to the contrary so I'd go with you on that point.

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