Grand Weather Matrix Thread

[mike1962]

For now if anyone is interested here is an updated weathers file. Rename the folder "weathers" In acw/gamedata/ to backup or something then place weathers folder from the zip file in its place. This is a more historical weather file. June, July and August are predominantly fair weather. Expect a lot of mud
in the winter and rainy seasons. Not much snow in the South. I did not add any new areas, just modded the existing ones. Stonewall, the Upland_South contains
some FL regions, they should probably be moved. The bottom 3/4 of FL could use its own area, as the weather there is usually different. Great Lakes, Upland South and Appalachian's could all use work.

[Hobbes]

Great stuff Mike! I assume only the host has to have these for a PBEM?
Cheers, Chris

[Pocus]

If people are ok with this file (including Stonewall), perhaps we can settle the issue (we would incorporate that as the new official version)

I will need the XLS file for this weather matrix though.

[gbs]

I'm interested in Stonewall's opinion. Also, if this is adopted as official as Pocus suggests, will it be usable in existing games?

[Stonewall]

I'll look at it and see if I can integrate it with what I have already done and see how it reacts.

New weather should have no impact on continuation of old games.

[gbs]

Another question. Does this bit of work remove the ice that seems to form in southern rivers? For example the river from Mobile and Montgomery and the Mississippi below Illinois.

[mike1962]

The file I uploaded is by no means a fix all. We should wait on Stonewall, he is probably working on the Areas. I ran the in game matrix through the test game a couple times to get a handle on the problem areas in detail. Then I tweaked the existing areas to get as close as I could to a more realistic pattern(using the existing areas). I just uploaded it as a quick fix for the frozen rivers and summer snow, etc. until a more comprehensive one is ready.

[SiTheSly]

I installed the modded weather files but come early October I get this error.

If I return to the original files it runs fine again.

I tried it for the late Oct turn and the error returned but this time I have the saved game and logs if anyone is interested.

If no one else encounters the same problem then perhaps its just my setup but I'll have to revert to the originals which is a shame.

[Stonewall]

The modified base weather area data files are almost finished. I'll try to get them up sometime over the weekend. I'll post both the .xls file as well as the extracted data files that can be utilized in-game.

No promises regarding timeframe, through. I have a DUI/manslaughter trial all week next week. So, if this weekend fails, it will have to be pushed back a week.

[Hobbes]

Thanks for the info chaps.

[gbs]

Each December in the game, when I run into icebergs in the Mississippi and other southern tributaries it reminds me to check this thread. I know this has fallen almost totally on Stonewall but I sure hope that interest in this isn't fading. BTW if changes are made, how will it be executed? Will it come in the form of an official patch from AGEOD?

[von Beanie]

I haven't checked into this new weather stuff, but please make sure there's no more snow in Tucson or Laredo. Those areas will always be dry and warm for military purposes. On the west coast the weather should always be dry from mid-April to late November, with mud possible in the winter months (the climate is identical to Italy's).

Movement from the west coast to the midwest also seems too fast. California should be connected to the Rockies or Tucson before it connects to Kansas and Nebraska. It would be difficult to move artillery from San Francisco to eastern Kansas in 11 days--if it was possible at all. Nearly all of the military units on the west coast traveled to and from there by ship because the overland travel was so arduous prior to the transcontinental railroad (1869). It takes about 3 days to drive between the California coast and eastern Kansas today!

[Hobbes]

I installed the modded weather files but come early October I get this error.

If I return to the original files it runs fine again.

I tried it for the late Oct turn and the error returned but this time I have the saved game and logs if anyone is interested.

If no one else encounters the same problem then perhaps its just my setup but I'll have to revert to the originals which is a shame.

We have now played through 1861 and into 1862 using the modded weather with no problem so far. The weather seems much more realistic.

Cheers, Chris

[gbs]

We have now played through 1861 and into 1862 using the modded weather with no problem so far. The weather seems much more realistic.

Cheers, Chris

Chris, In your opinion, about when will this become an official or unofficial file that we can all download and us, kind of like the Leader Improvement Mod? In my opinion this is the only remaining adjustment needed for this game to be almost perfect.

[Hobbes]

I can't say gbs I'm just using the mod available on the link in Mike's note.
Cheers, Chris

[PBBoeye]

I d/l the new weather patterns; nonetheless, I have some relevant concerns, so bear this out (copy/paste from my other post, as I didn't know this one existed):

OK, having just concluded my first Bull run run , I note with great dismay how NVa and MD turned into a blizzard fest in the first half of November then a sheet of ice from then on. (note: I continued playing the scenario past the end-point) Hmmm, how shall I say this? Having lived in central MD from '71 until '94, then Richmond from '95 until the present, I say - no way.

The problem lies here - Virginia is included, AFAIK from looking at the probabilities in the various weather region files, in the Mid-Atlantic region for weather. This just doesn't get the proper weather pattern down whatsoever. Snow in MD in November is not unheard of, neither is it in VA (but pretty rare). Even so, a smattering is only possible statistically, and a blizzard is a no-no. As well as frozen conditions for weeks on end with snow on the ground, in early November.

The issue here is how states are categorized in the various regions, which can be confusing all by themselves (we have Upland_South and Upper_South - ???).

My suggestion is if you have MD in Mid-Atlantic (which is correct) and VA there, too, you remove VA and drop it south a notch. If you have it by regions and not just states, then you leave NVa in Mid-Atlantic and central VA and the rest of VA in a deeper south region. This would give the ability to replicate better weather patterns. Because I don't want to model Virginia weather for the Mid-Atlantic and boot Pennslyvania weather in the noggin. Some of the tweaks here need to be code.

I can't speak for the other areas of the States, but I sure know VA, MD, and PA weather extremely well and would like to do some work on this whole area of the game. In particular, winter weather. For example, the default Mid-Atlantic file has a 5% chance of Blizzard in October (swamp, marsh and other - read: clear). That's just too off for me.

OK, bottom line - if we want accurate weather in the East, Virginia cannot be a part of the Mid-Atlantic region. It is much nearer to NC/SC in weather (especially snow) than MD.

[PBBoeye]

Thought I'd back up my comments with some info. This is pretty much the tangent that precipitation, especially winter, follows through Virginia. As you can see, at some point it crests the mountains and dumps on Charlottesville (a mere 1 hour west of Richmond) and continues on a NW trek, then hits or misses Fredericksburg, then usually slams into DC or Montgomery County, MD and heads north, usually dumping more and more snow as it goes up. I see it almost every year as I watch weather nightly.

IMO, this is why VA should not be included in the Mid-Atlantic region for weather. There is, from my experience, a significant difference between Richmond and central MD in temperature. Not so much the value, but that it is the difference between snow and rain, which we usually get while north of us gets snow.

I think this is a vital issue for determining WHEN the cold season sets in for VA. I mean, if we're talking the PNW, who cares for ACW warfare? But VA, the foremost battleground? I mean, there are earthworks sitting out in some of my friend's woods that date from the Richmond/Petersburg defense system.

[Pdubya64]

I am not too worried about this PBBoeye, but it may take some time to get it resolved.

Some good points, particularly the dreaded "freeze line". Here are a few I have from my having lived in Richmond, VA since 1970.

Pdubya's VA Weather Rules (most of the time anyway... )

• Winter weather comes LATE to the Piedmont region; we don't get snow in accumulation until January thru March, sometimes even April. November snow is extremely rare south of the freeze line. December snow is fairly rare unless you are up in the mountains (the occasional clipper is an exception). The Piedmont and Tidewater areas might get a few flurries, but it is v. rare for it to last more than a day. Ice and sleet abound along the freeze line- south of course it's just a nasty, cold rain.
• We typically have Spring weather dominated by its bigger brothers Winter and Summer. In other words, they are usually short, and after Winter breaks, the "nice" weather doesn't last long before it's...
• Summer! Ah... humidity at its finest. There seems to be a characteristic of VA summers where blue skies are rare unless its just stinkin hot. Usually, its an overdose of the "three H's", Hazy, Hot and Humid. Hard on the eyes too.
• Fall, my personal favorite time of year in Virginia. Some rain but on the whole a very pleasant time to visit all those Civil War sites and other landmarks you have always meant to visit!

Anyway guys, keep plugging; I am looking forward to the final product!

[PBBoeye]

Complete agreement with your posts, Pdubya.

I often wonder why they employ meteorologists in VA (and the South) during the summer.

[Black Cat]

What`s the verdict on Mikes _unoffical_ weather patch upthread ?

Is it a useable option in a Campaign Game re-start in anyones opinion?

Is Stonewall`s still in progress ? Nothing on that in 3 weeks.

IMO, the default Weather routine breaks the Game. Especially in the West.

Thanks

[PBBoeye]

Interesting. What is it about the Western weather?

[Black Cat]

The troop killing Snow and Ice usually start in Sept. and last continuously through March North of the Ohio river, and in the areas just below it.

Since this Weather includes the line Lexington - Louisville - Bowling Green, which the Union should have by `62, it effects troops who are not inside a city, especially the AI units.

The areas just North of, and including the line Gallatin - Nashville - Clarksville - and Forts H & D, also get this extended weather effect, and since the South usually has these, it`s the same deal for the AI.

This is because in both cases, the AI is fond of maneuvering large groups of troops in the open, in the winter. You can watch their bases turn yellow to orange to red as they sit outside....this really effects the AI troops, especially the South, which cannot afford this loss.

There have been a few threads in the HQ forum on this, but I don`t have the time to search.

Please Note: This is just a request that it be fine tunned, it`s a great, historical effect that shouldn`t be eliminated from the Game.

[PBBoeye]

What are you suggesting for the western weather patterns? Or is this about the AI and its lack of respect for winter's harsh effects?

I really think this is a vital piece for the game as regards accuracy. To dismiss it would be like saying weather played no part in the Eastern Front during WW2. OK, maybe the weather wasn't that bad...

[PBBoeye]

Found an important weather thread that has great info in it, showing me how we can alter the weather regions:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=4355

Read the whole thread. I suggested we have one weather thread (maybe lock the other one?).

Anyhow, I am going to go through the Virginia areas (and Texas) and work things out a bit more.

[Black Cat]

What are you suggesting for the western weather patterns? Or is this about the AI and its lack of respect for winter's harsh effects?

I really think this is a vital piece for the game as regards accuracy. To dismiss it would be like saying weather played no part in the Eastern Front during WW2. OK, maybe the weather wasn't that bad...

Since Stonewall & Mike were working on this, I guess Modding the Weather patterns is possible and the best way to go. Dicking around with the troops AI behavior in regard the Weather is a no - win for the programmer IMO....he needs to focus on other issues

[PBBoeye]

Yes, I think it's possible for us to straighten everything out with the tools at our disposal. By that I mean fine-tune according to our relevant understanding of regional weather patterns. A lot of work has already been done, so there is stuff to work off of.

[PBBoeye]

Black Cat,

What you might want to look at is Jabberwock's (guessing he made this arrangement) work at this post:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=34977&postcount=38

There you'll find an Areas.txt file he created (again, assuming - he's yet to confirm for me). The areas in the file that pertain to weather regions are from areas #71 and onward. If you get a chance, look it over and let me know what you think about the western groupings. I am liking what he's done with the east coast.

[Jabberwock]

Yes, that was me. I'm not as familiar with the western weather, so please feel free to modify as you see fit. Also,the southernmost three or four river areas I came up with could be combined to just one or two. I was not aware of the Virginia freeze line, but there is a similar, January/February snow/freezing rain probabilities line across northern North Carolina. Runs from approx. Raleigh to Albemarle Sound. Some winters it is closer to the VA/NC border.

The original purpose of this thread was to consolidate weather discussions. The other should be locked.

[Rafiki]

Or merged

[PBBoeye]

I'd like to see the other one locked, but with a forwarding link in a final post, as well as posted into the first post as a moderator edit. That would forward anyone to this post without losing that info.

Or perhaps lock it and post relevant info from it over to this one. That one contains some vital info.

I'll take a look at VA/NC/MD areas but your current arrangement seemed pretty good offhand. Also will look at the southern river areas. It would be nice if we could combine a few areas, if only to reduce the workload.

Hopefully Blackcat can weigh in on other western areas.