The quest to make the perfect penalty free army

[GuileMike]

I am still learning how to craft my perfect stacks but how many division can you really pack into an army? 2nd picture on this post http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?42555-GuileMike-s-Union-Campaign-AAR-Blue-mixed-with-Gray-makes-Red&p=369462&viewfull=1#post369462

look at the rebs with all those divisions, do they have a leadership penalty with all that?

Is it worth just making stacks that are 35%+ penalty? Are they unstoppable to the point that they would defeat armies and corps when met?

Please pass on any knowledge and expierence with building armies. I am still learning AGEOD games and loving more than I ever have being a Paradox fan for years.

GM

[Gray Fox]

I checked the whole page and you had two battles where the CSA had 5 Divisions in the report. That is only 20 command points worth of Divisions and would easily fit into an army with a signal unit. A very large stack with the max penalty would move more slowly and the elements would take an initiative hit for first shot in combat. Some Generals can command more than a hundred line elements in battle. It is unproven if a super stack with CP penalty is worthwhile.

P.S. I've read you whole AAR. Why do you form so few and such small Divisions (65 hearts)? You seemed to have waited well into '62 to start forming Divisions. They become active in Oct. '61. You also seem to only have 3 Corps. Concentrate your firepower. As Guderian said, "Don't poke it with your finger, smash it with your fist." Good luck!

[ArmChairGeneral]

I suspect they would not be worthwhile unless the opponent also suffers command penalties i.e. massive pre-division stacks in VA.

[Captain_Orso]

I am still learning how to craft my perfect stacks

There's really no such thing. The optimal composition of divisions and/or corps changes with every change in terrain and weather. All you can to is compose a good compromise that works in general and doesn't have any bad weaknesses.

but how many division can you really pack into an army?

The manual states it differently, but the way the manual describes Command Points (CP's) is hard to wrap your head around, at least for me. This is how I would describe it:

Every leader has CP's. Brig.Gen.s have 2, Maj.Gen.s have 4, and Lt.Gen.s have 8.

Regardless of the number of leaders in a stack, the maximum number of CP's a stack can have is 8, unless the stack is in an Army's Chain-of-Command.

Things that modify a stack's CP's: Signal Co., and Balloon units each add 1 CP to the stack they are in; every Strategic value point above 3--I believe--a stack commander has adds 1 CP to that stack; every Strategic value point below 3 subtracts 1. This is regardless of the number of leaders in a stack.

To create an Army Chain-of-Command, you must first create and Army Command by selecting a Lt.Gen. not already in an Army Chain-of-Command nor leading a division, nor combined with a brigade, and clicking the Create Army Command SO button. There may be penalties for doing this depending on the seniority of the Lt.Gen. you have chosen.

Lt.Gen. and Maj.Gen. within the Command Radius of an Army Command may be given Corps Command in that Army. The Command Radius of an Army is displayed by selecting the the Army Command stack and pressing and holding the <Shift> key.

The Army Command stack and all of its attached Corps stacks are considered to be in the Army's Chain-of-Command. No units outside of Army and Corps stacks are considered to be within the Chain-of-Command, even if within the same region as an Army Command or Corps stack.

An Army and Corps stack CP's are doubled, up to a maximum of 16, which may be modified as above. To see the available CP's of a stack, select the stack and look at the tool-top of the stack's tab in the Stack Panel.

Generally Army and Corps stacks will have about 16 CP's. That would allow them to contain 4 divisions without Command Penalty.

2nd picture on this post http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?42555-GuileMike-s-Union-Campaign-AAR-Blue-mixed-with-Gray-makes-Red&p=369462&viewfull=1#post369462

look at the rebs with all those divisions, do they have a leadership penalty with all that?

Probably some, but they still outnumber you by more than 2-1. Bragg is not great on the offensive, but IIRC still better than 'Spoons' Butler, but then again, nearly every body is.

Is it worth just making stacks that are 35%+ penalty?

No, not if it can be avoided; and it practically always can.

Starting Early Oct. '61 both sides can start forming divisions. Starting Early March '62 both sides can start forming Corps.

A division is a special kind of unit in that it is created by giving a leader division command and adding 1 or more non-supply units to it, up to a total of 18 sub-units or elements. Remember, a leader is also a unit. Divisions have a CP requirement of 4, so but as many units inside them as possible.

Are they unstoppable to the point that they would defeat armies and corps when met?

No. Each CP required above the CP's a stack has available reduces the speed and power of a stack by -5% down to a maximum of -35%. How many of your mega-stack can actually fight in a battle depends on the terrain and leadership.

The more sub-units which get beaten up in battle, the greater chance they will retreat or be routed. The more this happens, the greater chance of the entire stack retreating, including units which didn't even fire a shot.

So over-stacking can easily mean that you have units which cannot even get into battle, hamper other units from fighting well by requiring CP's unnecessarily, and might be of more use elsewhere.

Please pass on any knowledge and expierence with building armies. I am still learning AGEOD games and loving more than I ever have being a Paradox fan for years.

GM

There are several threads about division and corps/army stack composition, especially started--or completed --by Gray Fox, not even that old in this forum. Search is your friend in this case

[Cromagnonman]

Union generals worth saluting are relatively uncommon early in the war. The few good ones can make the others better by being the Army to their Corps. Thus, it behooves the Federal player to place so-so generals into an army command structure below a more competent commander. The rebels are more able to field well-led independent commands without impoverishing the command structure.