1. When you set posture as a leader in one region and move to another, you should be able to to delay posture until arrival, thus avoiding a combat until you should choose. Simple but a very powerful tool.
2. If you arrive in a territory with a small force you shouldn't unlock the units there. If a player is clever enough you target a lone cavalry or ship you can unlock an entire enemy position on accident. SO you should have to have a large force to cause an unlock in comparison.(this is a bug)
3. The CSA should get more 20 pound cannon by event early during 1862 to allow for a more playful Virginia campaign. Things get stagnate there if not. She cannot afford to buy them. I'm not sure if this would make the mega difference but it is a possibility. Please your suggestions?
4. No Confederate Naval Transport in shipping boxes.
5. A training leader for the CSA in 1861!!! Come on, just 1... Bragg!
P.S. Add your two cents and continue and counter. Also so far wonderful game, my favourite Civil War game in history. Keep up the good work Community and AGEOD.
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BattleVonWar
- Major
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- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:22 am
What would help or hurt
For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two o'clock on that July afternoon in 1863 ~~~
As requested:
1. Okay, if you mean that you have a stack in Baltimore and you want to rail it over to HF for a surprise assault, then yes it doesn't sound right that the stack would be in AOA on a train most of the way through MD.
2. Yes this is a technicality, but you shouldn't accidentally do something and then regret it. If you did it, it's done.
3. I can't find any historical numbers, but I am sure that AGEOD did research this. I would put all of the 20-lbers you get in one Division for use by one army to do you know what. If someone else had twice as many of these, they might still never cross the Potomac.
4. This seems to work but really shouldn't. AGEOD should work on more important things and players should just not put CSA transports in the shipping box.
5. Perhaps Confederate farm boy militias should just get a point or two better stats. At least at the beginning of the war, rough and tumble Union recruits from Boston, NYC and Philly may be as tough as CSA militiamen, but that doesn't mean that they had hunted with muskets all their lives.
1. Okay, if you mean that you have a stack in Baltimore and you want to rail it over to HF for a surprise assault, then yes it doesn't sound right that the stack would be in AOA on a train most of the way through MD.
2. Yes this is a technicality, but you shouldn't accidentally do something and then regret it. If you did it, it's done.
3. I can't find any historical numbers, but I am sure that AGEOD did research this. I would put all of the 20-lbers you get in one Division for use by one army to do you know what. If someone else had twice as many of these, they might still never cross the Potomac.
4. This seems to work but really shouldn't. AGEOD should work on more important things and players should just not put CSA transports in the shipping box.
5. Perhaps Confederate farm boy militias should just get a point or two better stats. At least at the beginning of the war, rough and tumble Union recruits from Boston, NYC and Philly may be as tough as CSA militiamen, but that doesn't mean that they had hunted with muskets all their lives.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!
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BattleVonWar
- Major
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- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:22 am
GrayFox, not every CSA Soldier was a legendary marksmen due to huntin' game. No but they were probably a little better with their marksmenship depending on who you pick. City Boys or country boys. The general industrial recruits of the North would soon catch up but in game terms no advantage vs the unit construction bias of the North is seen in my opinion. So a better capability would be warranted. (previous to the long years of war and training the North will get)
To add:
6. People argue this retreat rule over and over and over. During the War how many times a ceasefire called to allow for a retreat? I believe Antietam and Gettysburg are the most famous? Not that either side could have pursued things. It would maybe turned out to be a bloodbath. Why not an RGD to allow a unit a path of retreat home without engagement? I think that history should be honoured and if you want to honour 20 pound cannons not in the CSA arsenal why not Honour the fighting men of the day.(Generals doing their own business outside of the Commander and Chief)
(?)7. Sometimes when Assaulting or on O posture I get full entrenchment bonus.(this could be my misunderstanding of game mechanics) I could do screenshots if need be, but the other side is set to blue, I am set to red... revert to blue and still attack and get full entrenchment bonus on the offense.
To add:
6. People argue this retreat rule over and over and over. During the War how many times a ceasefire called to allow for a retreat? I believe Antietam and Gettysburg are the most famous? Not that either side could have pursued things. It would maybe turned out to be a bloodbath. Why not an RGD to allow a unit a path of retreat home without engagement? I think that history should be honoured and if you want to honour 20 pound cannons not in the CSA arsenal why not Honour the fighting men of the day.(Generals doing their own business outside of the Commander and Chief)
(?)7. Sometimes when Assaulting or on O posture I get full entrenchment bonus.(this could be my misunderstanding of game mechanics) I could do screenshots if need be, but the other side is set to blue, I am set to red... revert to blue and still attack and get full entrenchment bonus on the offense.
For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two o'clock on that July afternoon in 1863 ~~~
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Cardinal Ape
- General of the Army
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:59 am
1. Isn't that what the evade combat order is for?
2. I'm guessing you are referring to a situation where a CSA scout ends up in a region like Alexandria, gets into a small battle and thereby unlocks the entire defense force? Now if this happens because a player is deliberately trying to take advantage of an enemy intercept order it does seem a bit underhanded, but if you bite on the bait you should expect to get hooked. I slightly agree that one should need more than a single scout to unlock a place like Alexandria, but it is not that big of a deal - the places where there are sizable locked forces are few. One gamey thing I have done before as the CSA is to combine the naval engineer in Norfolk with the artillery unit set to bombard. If a target gets fired upon the forces will get unlocked and the naval engineer gets redeployed to oversee the construction of a Mississippi river ironclad fleet.
3. I'm a bit confused by your question. You mention not being able to afford 20 pounders, but there are none to build in the VA force pool. Do you mean that there should be more available to build? I don't have a clue about the historical OOB, though I wish one could build some bigger guns instead of all those batteries of siege artillery. I have not had much of a problem affording artillery as the CSA. Getting the seven 20 pounders built in Kentucky is vital if you are trying to mass a lot of big guns.
4a. I doubt the AI does this so it can easily be remedied with a house rule in pbem. Though in my own experiments I have not been able to reliably make CSA transports earn cash and WS. In half the games it works, the others it doesn't. I could not figure out why.
4b. It is my belief that if you are building ships as the Confederacy to increase your economic output you are actually sinking your ability to make war. Building new brigs as the CSA is folly. It would take 20 turns to break even. If you instead spent 10$ more for a 20 pound artillery you would get 15 turns of active service from it before your brig started to turn a profit. Even if you exploited transports it still doesn't overcome the lost service time of any fighting unit built in its place.
5. Yes. I agree. It would add to the fun and increase the game balance - seems like a no-brainer to me. I also like Gray Fox's suggestion.
6. The game already provides a player with enough tools to execute an orderly retreat. Cavalry screen and Disinformation RGDs are among them.
I would like to see the Deep Recon RGD changed to be playable on one's own territory to help facilitate pursuits. Without the change a Cavalry screen in enemy territory can not be stopped.
2. I'm guessing you are referring to a situation where a CSA scout ends up in a region like Alexandria, gets into a small battle and thereby unlocks the entire defense force? Now if this happens because a player is deliberately trying to take advantage of an enemy intercept order it does seem a bit underhanded, but if you bite on the bait you should expect to get hooked. I slightly agree that one should need more than a single scout to unlock a place like Alexandria, but it is not that big of a deal - the places where there are sizable locked forces are few. One gamey thing I have done before as the CSA is to combine the naval engineer in Norfolk with the artillery unit set to bombard. If a target gets fired upon the forces will get unlocked and the naval engineer gets redeployed to oversee the construction of a Mississippi river ironclad fleet.
3. I'm a bit confused by your question. You mention not being able to afford 20 pounders, but there are none to build in the VA force pool. Do you mean that there should be more available to build? I don't have a clue about the historical OOB, though I wish one could build some bigger guns instead of all those batteries of siege artillery. I have not had much of a problem affording artillery as the CSA. Getting the seven 20 pounders built in Kentucky is vital if you are trying to mass a lot of big guns.
4a. I doubt the AI does this so it can easily be remedied with a house rule in pbem. Though in my own experiments I have not been able to reliably make CSA transports earn cash and WS. In half the games it works, the others it doesn't. I could not figure out why.
4b. It is my belief that if you are building ships as the Confederacy to increase your economic output you are actually sinking your ability to make war. Building new brigs as the CSA is folly. It would take 20 turns to break even. If you instead spent 10$ more for a 20 pound artillery you would get 15 turns of active service from it before your brig started to turn a profit. Even if you exploited transports it still doesn't overcome the lost service time of any fighting unit built in its place.
5. Yes. I agree. It would add to the fun and increase the game balance - seems like a no-brainer to me. I also like Gray Fox's suggestion.
6. The game already provides a player with enough tools to execute an orderly retreat. Cavalry screen and Disinformation RGDs are among them.
I would like to see the Deep Recon RGD changed to be playable on one's own territory to help facilitate pursuits. Without the change a Cavalry screen in enemy territory can not be stopped.
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BattleVonWar
- Major
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:22 am
Mr. Cardinal Ape,
1. Evade combat yes it's for skipping fights but I mean when you say use fast cavalry and go through 8 provinces and pass through several locations you don't want to do combat, but do want to do combat at the end of the line. Assault stance will make you do 8 combats if there are 8 objectives along the way.
2. Yes, I am referring to that. I don't think an opponent always intends for it to happen. i.e. By accident you have a Cavalry out, your opponent pursues and you bring back to a location that causes a total unlock. By the way your idea in Norfolk, wonderful :P hehehe, a key for you. Set all your fixed artillery units to the most extreme defense so your opponent has less a chance to retrieve them in a capture?(if you didn't know already)
3. I have a game going now vs an opponent I started my first game with. I have 8 20LBSers about to be built by 1862. I am limited and with Kentucky I could build more. If he is soft on Kentucky I will. Though with the amount of war supply and time needed to make these I feel like a pregnant woman delivering triplets :P Plus he is aggressive, I think against a passive opponent you will build plenty of big artillery. Unlikely against a more aggressive opponent. Now argue the history but there not likely to be a historical '62 here. You cannot go anywhere without the bigger guns you're tied down. You can defend all you like and there will be no ventures in the more entrenched and tight spots. So I am just pointing out to add to game fluidity and motion, those big guns would make for more fun and historical battles. IMHO
4a. I don't if I was using an older patch when I put transports and brigs in the shipping lanes but it seemed I got cash maybe or supply. I recall Athena blocking my coastal assault on her capitol when I flanked through Baltimore but I stayed in supply this way I think now ... It would not seem possible to supply an army in this way for the CSA(heard this mentioned in another thread) : ) maybe it's been changed though an I am wrong.
4b. I checked the cost of a brig again, I see your point here. Absolutely a fighting unit ... say 5 Cavalry/some Cav.Arty/Mounted Mix with a deep raider attacking Gold producing cities would pay more than a brig fleet. Unless you really play a long game. I have 4 PBEM games that could push payback for that cost.(maybe not more cost effective than your suggestion)
5. Jumping past...
6. Interesting point you bring up. I have situations where an opponent puts an army two territories deep into my territory without adequate consideration. No, they shouldn't be able to just escape. It's gamy... I have also had instances where I escape from a territory with an entire army due to piecemealing it(I suppose higher evasion and faster moving?) You see the gamy thing here is that why I am doing that? It could reflect reality in that a destroyed Corp or Army escapes in pieces. Though it seems I don't understand the evasion and detection rules well enough to explain better. Things were more ugly with the pinning rules and 0% MC. I am glad that is fixed but I will split up an Army to escape a bad situation and do much better than I will with a whole Army... Everyone does if their back is a little to the wall but not closed in. Why though, in the end do I ask you when an Army is soundly defeated in field does it stay and hang about? Lee after Gettysburg day 3 did not stay in the territory ... he left and went home... Now it didn't take 5 minutes but in CW2 you will lose and wake up with your Army still in a territory you were soundly defeated. There is no said rule on occupation after the fact. I suppose it's random and reflective of that. Though confusing!
Lastly ; ) Your idea about using an RGD to make cavalry screening or any of those cards more useful is a good idea. They aren't of much use now.(at least in my own experience) Cavalry is very very hard to ever intercept, ever to detect even... real high evasion ... virtually never see an instance where they're caught and destroyed entirely ever. Most my Cav gets sick and dies out of supply giving beautiful intel.
Thanks for typing out I am learning as I am going . . . I want a game some day Ape :P
1. Evade combat yes it's for skipping fights but I mean when you say use fast cavalry and go through 8 provinces and pass through several locations you don't want to do combat, but do want to do combat at the end of the line. Assault stance will make you do 8 combats if there are 8 objectives along the way.
2. Yes, I am referring to that. I don't think an opponent always intends for it to happen. i.e. By accident you have a Cavalry out, your opponent pursues and you bring back to a location that causes a total unlock. By the way your idea in Norfolk, wonderful :P hehehe, a key for you. Set all your fixed artillery units to the most extreme defense so your opponent has less a chance to retrieve them in a capture?(if you didn't know already)
3. I have a game going now vs an opponent I started my first game with. I have 8 20LBSers about to be built by 1862. I am limited and with Kentucky I could build more. If he is soft on Kentucky I will. Though with the amount of war supply and time needed to make these I feel like a pregnant woman delivering triplets :P Plus he is aggressive, I think against a passive opponent you will build plenty of big artillery. Unlikely against a more aggressive opponent. Now argue the history but there not likely to be a historical '62 here. You cannot go anywhere without the bigger guns you're tied down. You can defend all you like and there will be no ventures in the more entrenched and tight spots. So I am just pointing out to add to game fluidity and motion, those big guns would make for more fun and historical battles. IMHO
4a. I don't if I was using an older patch when I put transports and brigs in the shipping lanes but it seemed I got cash maybe or supply. I recall Athena blocking my coastal assault on her capitol when I flanked through Baltimore but I stayed in supply this way I think now ... It would not seem possible to supply an army in this way for the CSA(heard this mentioned in another thread) : ) maybe it's been changed though an I am wrong.
4b. I checked the cost of a brig again, I see your point here. Absolutely a fighting unit ... say 5 Cavalry/some Cav.Arty/Mounted Mix with a deep raider attacking Gold producing cities would pay more than a brig fleet. Unless you really play a long game. I have 4 PBEM games that could push payback for that cost.(maybe not more cost effective than your suggestion)
5. Jumping past...
6. Interesting point you bring up. I have situations where an opponent puts an army two territories deep into my territory without adequate consideration. No, they shouldn't be able to just escape. It's gamy... I have also had instances where I escape from a territory with an entire army due to piecemealing it(I suppose higher evasion and faster moving?) You see the gamy thing here is that why I am doing that? It could reflect reality in that a destroyed Corp or Army escapes in pieces. Though it seems I don't understand the evasion and detection rules well enough to explain better. Things were more ugly with the pinning rules and 0% MC. I am glad that is fixed but I will split up an Army to escape a bad situation and do much better than I will with a whole Army... Everyone does if their back is a little to the wall but not closed in. Why though, in the end do I ask you when an Army is soundly defeated in field does it stay and hang about? Lee after Gettysburg day 3 did not stay in the territory ... he left and went home... Now it didn't take 5 minutes but in CW2 you will lose and wake up with your Army still in a territory you were soundly defeated. There is no said rule on occupation after the fact. I suppose it's random and reflective of that. Though confusing!
Lastly ; ) Your idea about using an RGD to make cavalry screening or any of those cards more useful is a good idea. They aren't of much use now.(at least in my own experience) Cavalry is very very hard to ever intercept, ever to detect even... real high evasion ... virtually never see an instance where they're caught and destroyed entirely ever. Most my Cav gets sick and dies out of supply giving beautiful intel.
Thanks for typing out I am learning as I am going . . . I want a game some day Ape :P
For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two o'clock on that July afternoon in 1863 ~~~
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Cardinal Ape
- General of the Army
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:59 am
1. Maybe I am wrong here, I'm possibly getting confused with rules from other AGEOD games... I thought when one used the evade combat order with an offensive/assault posture you would attempt to evade all combats en route to your final destination. With an assault posture, a force will not assault each region it moves through unless you have the all out attack ROE active.
4. When I went down the rabbit hole trying to solve the question, 'should I build brigs as the CSA?', it really made me appreciate the depth of this game. There are so many factors to take into account. Its absurdly difficult to come up with any solid numbers. There is a lot of gambling on weather and Union interception. The long game works just as well for fighting units even if they sit around doing nothing, as long as that time is spent with a driller gaining experience. To a small extent the problem has a quantity versus quality aspect to it.
6. I get your point about how dissembling a force into its smallest denominations to conduct a retreat feels gamey. It is. When I conduct a retreat I turn passive with evade orders, drop a cavalry screen and disinformation RGDs, and then I hope for the best.
4. When I went down the rabbit hole trying to solve the question, 'should I build brigs as the CSA?', it really made me appreciate the depth of this game. There are so many factors to take into account. Its absurdly difficult to come up with any solid numbers. There is a lot of gambling on weather and Union interception. The long game works just as well for fighting units even if they sit around doing nothing, as long as that time is spent with a driller gaining experience. To a small extent the problem has a quantity versus quality aspect to it.
6. I get your point about how dissembling a force into its smallest denominations to conduct a retreat feels gamey. It is. When I conduct a retreat I turn passive with evade orders, drop a cavalry screen and disinformation RGDs, and then I hope for the best.
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BattleVonWar
- Major
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:22 am
1. Cardinal Ape, I wasn't sure if the evade works as a delaying item so that you can arrive where you want and then function as an aggressor when you want like this for instance. I start in Alexandria with my Cavalry Unit but I want to bypass all territories between me and say Suffolk and then assault with my Cavalry Division and take the region(not early cav of course) In this instance right now you would on Assault I believe attack everything and every city/structure along the pathway to your destination.
4. I think brigs will pay in the long run but I have had an entire fleet go to the bottom once due to random bad luck. I really thought it must be the worst luck of all...(the factories have yet to reveal themselves as useful to me against an human???) War Supply is rare for the CSA. Money is easy and manpower is a little bit on the low end... but War Supply and her lower quality artillery leads to her being the defender in 1862 not the aggressor. Which to me Ahistorical to a level. At least in the East... She was no defender purely, she was on the offensive till mid-63 and then only then when she lost a good portion of her Eastern Army was it all Union thereafter. I know it's a point you can argue till the cows come home but I really think that the CSA is under powered. With two equal foes. (no gamy D.C. Capture with elite leaders, stripping every Theater at a last ditch promise) the rest of the States should have a littler greater value to stop that.
6. That's why I suggest the RGD card specifically for a limited withdrawal. Reflect a Gentleman's handshake. That or force house rules no disassembling batteries for later? Suffer the same fate on either end?
4. I think brigs will pay in the long run but I have had an entire fleet go to the bottom once due to random bad luck. I really thought it must be the worst luck of all...(the factories have yet to reveal themselves as useful to me against an human???) War Supply is rare for the CSA. Money is easy and manpower is a little bit on the low end... but War Supply and her lower quality artillery leads to her being the defender in 1862 not the aggressor. Which to me Ahistorical to a level. At least in the East... She was no defender purely, she was on the offensive till mid-63 and then only then when she lost a good portion of her Eastern Army was it all Union thereafter. I know it's a point you can argue till the cows come home but I really think that the CSA is under powered. With two equal foes. (no gamy D.C. Capture with elite leaders, stripping every Theater at a last ditch promise) the rest of the States should have a littler greater value to stop that.
6. That's why I suggest the RGD card specifically for a limited withdrawal. Reflect a Gentleman's handshake. That or force house rules no disassembling batteries for later? Suffer the same fate on either end?
For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two o'clock on that July afternoon in 1863 ~~~
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