loki100 wrote:The problem seems to be that left to itself the AI does not build new ships.
basilhare wrote:Ouch! This would almost seem like a game breaker? Does the AI at least upgrade the existing navies as technology evolves? Maybe I missed it, but is there a link for Chris's naval fix and how to install it? Thanks.
basilhare wrote:Well, I certainly appreciate all the help and advice...I think I am going to put PoN aside for now and wait for more work to be completed in future updates...I love the game, scope and potential but am disheartened by the number of bugs that still remain to be fixed...I guess I will move on to "TEAW" for now...thanks.
bwiser wrote:Loki - once again - thanks for sharing your expertise and your fast answers !!
I am a bit confused which routines to take: Following your links Christoph "only" created the Japanese build up - which surely will be useful for my Russia game , but I did not find a "generic" build up routine or other countries in his posts.
Which routine should I use for GB, France, Germany, Austria, Italy. You mentioned that you created a build up and I remember reading about it in your S-P AAR a couple of months ago but I just did not re-find it now - do you recommend this one - could you share a link and how do I include this - just copy and paste into a plain text-file?
Sorry to bother you again in this matter - and again thanks for your help
SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Ile de France
StartEvent = evt_nam_FRA_NavalBuildUp|1|2|NULL|NULL|Null|NULL
Conditions
MinDate = 1860/01/01
EvalAI = 1
Actions
SelectFaction = $FRA
AI.SetLandBuild = 100
AI.SetNavBuild = 100
SelectRegion = $Bretagne
CreateStruc
SetType = $Shipyard2
SetLevel = 2
SetName = Brest Naval Yards
Apply
SelectRegion = $Provence
CreateStruc
SetType = $Shipyard2
SetLevel = 2
SetName = Toulon Naval Yards
Apply
bwiser wrote:It's really a question, what you want. Per Loki's explanation this for me is nothing more than an oversight than a bug (naval warfare is working as long as they've got the boats - that saved my day). For me there is no need for an AI steered building process (would be nice but it should work properly and not catapult you in an unrealistic lala-land).
Closeness to history with possibilities of alternative paths is what I am aiming for. Victoria II would be a good candidate in this time frame as well, but for me V II is too far away in the fantasy-land and is too ... "generic". Sure PON could have a deeper inner politics play, but its economics (domestic /MTBs), the literally strenuous and long-taking colonialism, super-detailed armies / navies WITH supply chains / weather effecting them, closeness to history (just to name a few) - all this for me sums up as being far superior. And: it just feels like you are in the 19th century - no other game achieved this for me for the Victorian era.
Regarding Christophs/ Loki's work regarding the scripts: It would really be awesome if you could package these in one ZIP and provide it to us non-literates of the inner works of the engine.
bwiser wrote:So that means, that I just need to "encourage" the AI to build naval bases - the rest will do the AI ?? That would be a huge relief - Loki, I will try this - would 2 naval bases be enough for UK, France, Germany and 1 naval base for Italy?
Reiryc wrote:Loki, you're a gem.
Just picked up pon as it was on sale and have read your italy aar. So much in there that really helps me pick up the game.
loki100 wrote:that script effectively does 2 things - it tells the AI that a fleet is as important as land builds and, with the shipyards, makes it that bit easier/quicker for it to build. If it doesn't take the hint, you could try AI.SetNavBuild = 200 (or higher). Christophe reported that '100' worked well for Japan, but it does depend on the AI having the other tools (late game steel is a problem) to do the building. As to number of bases, I don't think that you need a lot, as a player I'd only build a couple and really develop them as I can't think of a situation where I would be able to afford to build all that many ships at any one time.
bwiser wrote:Do I create a dedicated scenario (.sct file) for this or do I put it into one or more existing scenarios in order for the AI to include these events. Reading other scenarios I assume I can put all countries events into one file, can't I?
loki100 wrote:matter of taste really. I ended up with one I called 'use and delete', and put all the one off events I created into there. Used them, then deleted them (I actually have a word document somewhere with all the events I came up with stored). The reason for this is that every event is checked as part of the turn processing routine. While I suspect a single event, even on a slow computer, adds very little, we're all aware that the last thing that PoN needs is to have more to process each turn.
It also meant they couldn't fire if I started a new game and so on.
loki100 wrote:matter of taste really. I ended up with one I called 'use and delete', and put all the one off events I created into there. Used them, then deleted them (I actually have a word document somewhere with all the events I came up with stored). The reason for this is that every event is checked as part of the turn processing routine. While I suspect a single event, even on a slow computer, adds very little, we're all aware that the last thing that PoN needs is to have more to process each turn.
It also meant they couldn't fire if I started a new game and so on.
loki100 wrote:Hi
I think you'll still need to tell the AI to make naval builds a priority. Its good it has the infrastructure. I think the basic problem is the AI is being too logical - at the lower priority, building up your navy, especially once you shift to coal is very expensive both as build costs and as a demand on an already hard to access good (coal). So you need to offset this logical reluctance to go and build a huge white elephant (ok I realise white elephants sink at sea), you need to tell it that white elephants are more important.
Its actually quite realistic in that there was little in the period 1880-1918 that indicated that the huge battlefleets were of any use, except that if someone else had one, you needed one, so you could then both negate the other.
Once you go beyond the sail generation (ie BB#3), then you and the AI need to engage in scrap and replace as new generations come on line, so that might be another challenge that the AI becomes stuck with the first generation of coal powered ships.
loki100 wrote:Not really sure to be honest.
The changes to AI priorities discussed above are now in the game events. My problem is I've spent most of the time dipping in and out of games testing events rather than looking at the natural development of the game. I've a current game on the go but only up to 1854.
From that, the AI definitely will do naval invasions but I think still tends to send its combat fleet into the commerce boxes. Too early to say if the new build routines will see a change - you'd have to push a game into the 1870s+ when you need to replace your sail warships.
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