caranorn wrote:I've been wondering about where the French and British armies disapeared (I lost contact with most of their front at the start of winter, except along the original French/German boder) to in my current game. Will take a look at the ai side tommorrow to see whether it's similar to your Breslau case.
DrPostman wrote:Make sure to buy one of the two spies when they become unlocked.
H Gilmer3 wrote:Well, I feel like an idiot since I'm not steam rolling the CP.
The Grand Fleet isn't bad at that big of a stack - that's how big my Grand Fleet is and it isn't even close to using up all of its command points. Being in the Africa theater is inexplicable.
H Gilmer3 wrote:Thanks HerrDan. I'm having a good game, so maybe Athena is playing against me in a very smart fashion.
bob. wrote:Kensai, I do not really understand why you argue so heavily that the AI is so good. I am not trying to bash the game here, I love all AGEOD games! They are in fact more or less my favourite PC games in general. That does not change the fact that the AI is horrible though.
Sure I have a save game that proves otherwise, the one I am posting about here! If you really need more "proof", here's some more screens:
You know what, especially this last thing has convinced me that in fact there has to be something wrong with the AI in this specific game. In other AGEOD games, it was never THAT retarded.
H Gilmer3 wrote:Well, I feel like an idiot since I'm not steam rolling the CP.
The Grand Fleet isn't bad at that big of a stack - that's how big my Grand Fleet is and it isn't even close to using up all of its command points. Being in the Africa theater is inexplicable.
vaalen wrote:It is unusual to steamroll Athena, which is why I think something is very wrong with Bobs particular game.
Kensai wrote:I argue because WE DO NOT KNOW how you reached that situation. This is not the way we troubleshoot the AI. Screenshots are snapshots of a situation that is indeed puzzling, but as long as I don't have a relatively early save game WITH the complete settings when you started the game, how on earth am I supposed to know what went wrong and help correct it?
Kensai wrote:Modern game AI usually works by steady states. The AI tries to keep some balances according to its initial instructions (biases) and scripts. I don't know why the German AI retreated in Breslau, but Breslau if I recall correctly is an important strategic city for the CP, so the AI tries to defend it. So this is nothing wrong. Before certain changes to the AGE engine we had even bigger stacks. However a big stack is not bad when the AI had got some beating and tries to regroup. Remember the AI has less penalty in CP, especially with higher difficulties, so it is good for it to combine units.
Kensai wrote:On the other hand, players usually misunderstand probabilities: the "strange retreat" issue is something I've been seeing in these forums being asked the last 3 years more than once. It is NOT strange, it is rare, but players only notice it when they see this curious thing happening. It's a bad roll, but abstracts a bad field decision or operative situation. Probabilities is hard to grasp sometimes: It's like when you're thinking of a person and the phone rings and it's that person and you say... "hey I've been thinking about you", forgetting all the GAZILLION times the phone never rung while you were thinking other persons.
Kensai wrote:My advice is, if you find the game easy, play with a higher difficulty level: Colonel, better activation for the enemy, AI detection at Medium, attrition for you, etc. The AI cannot match the strategic depth of a human player, but it is more than enough in keeping a front, which is what this game needs and does. Regarding fleet actions, I have seen as well strange movements that make sometimes no sense: this can be easily fixed when we implement better patrol biases for certain fleets.
It is unusual to steamroll Athena, which is why I think something is very wrong with Bobs particular game.
Kensai wrote:bob, the game probabilities is a huge dice. A dice can roll and give any result. Some results obviously happen more often that others (say the dice has many sides with the same number), others not. There is a number of freak occurences in your game that need further investigation, cause we did not come up on these things while in beta.
Kensai wrote:The French army ending in Dortmund is not necessarily bad, unless you are telling me it's unsupplied and dying.
Otherwise it's behind your lines doing what it is supposed to do: getting your own objectives.
Yes, the naval fleet in North Africa is wrong and should be corrected not to leave Europe. In my own games I have seen a similar situation, but that fleet is always on the move. Perhaps in a few turns it returns to Europe.
I don't know why the French line broke down so spectacularly in your case. In my games it never happens like this. If your settings are these you say then I definitely need an early save game of yours, ideally before the French front broke. I will run it with error log on and see why France does what it does.
bob. wrote:Here's a thought that just occured to me... maybe it is so hilariously bad because it is AI vs AI? Usually in all games it is AI vs human...
Owl wrote:As for that first screenshot, at least some Japanese ships in the Mediterranean Box seems alright to me - historically, the Imperial Japanese Navy committed to that theater only later, but it is still in the realm of possibility.
FroBodine wrote:Wow, a whole two page thread about how horrible and ridiculous the AI is, and not a single response from a developer to explain anything.
Are they going to improve the AI? Will this game only be enjoyable against a human opponent? I sure hope not, because I play almost strictly vs. the AI. I hope to get some head-to-head games in at some point, but mostly single player.
I sure hope the developers are reading all this, and plan to address it. I don't want to have wasted my money on the worst AI in the history of AGEOD games.
Taciturn Scot wrote:
Unfortunately, posting a screenshot or two accompanied with a post pointing out how 'retarded' this behavior is doesn't help them to correct anything. If you really want to help them to fix these problems, you need to send them game saves with a more detailed description of what was happening in your game. There's not much to help them here in this thread even though there appears to be something wrong.
bob. wrote:As I have said, for me while it is usually not THAT bad, the AI always does similarly stupid stuff for me in all games.
Well, what do you think? The front line is AT THE BORDER.
Getting objectives is stupid if you can not hold them. Holding Dortmund with zero provinces around Dortmund controlled and the front line, as said, at the border? Useless. Also, they never took it because the Germans kept considerable troops in their back.
I was also disappointed it just keeps all in one huge stack. That doesn't really seem necessary considering the superiority Britain has anyway.
Thing is, as you can see in the screens, the line did not really "break down" because the Germans are doing similarly retarded.
Here's a thought that just occured to me... maybe it is so hilariously bad because it is AI vs AI? Usually in all games it is AI vs human...
EDIT: No, caranorm (thanks for some more screenshots from a different game!) shows that this happens AI vs human as well...
FroBodine wrote:Wow, a whole two page thread about how horrible and ridiculous the AI is, and not a single response from a developer to explain anything.
Are they going to improve the AI? Will this game only be enjoyable against a human opponent? I sure hope not, because I play almost strictly vs. the AI. I hope to get some head-to-head games in at some point, but mostly single player.
I sure hope the developers are reading all this, and plan to address it. I don't want to have wasted my money on the worst AI in the history of AGEOD games.
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