I'm really not sure if there's any point in having a separate stack. As I understand the actual army commanders stack is mainly supposed to be support units not a battle stack. But what's the point of that if engineers, medical companies, and signalers abilities only apply to the stack he is in? Med companies wouldn't be able to do anything for the corps that do the fighting......
Can somebody clear this up and advise about composition of army leaders stack and how to use it?
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HidekiTojo
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You definitely want your engineers and medical services located with the corps that is fighting (as you say it's abilities only apply to the stack the unit is in).
Each person will have a different composition for the army stack. Some like to put a few divisions in there and have the army do some of the fighting, others like it to be only artillery/cavalry to aid a corps being attacked. There is no 100% right or wrong, it's how you use your units. Personally, I have the army function just like another corps in the unit (I place 2/3 divisions in it, and have it take a place in the line). This way, it helps defend a line, and as the CSA, you get few 2* generals. I feel that I need to have the army in the defensive line (helps prevent flanking). If you leave the army without divisions, but with artillery only for example, the army must be behind the corps, and can not defend a section of the line. For me, that means my defensive positions now have 1 less region covered, and the enemy can more easily flank my defensive line. But that is just my take on how to use an army.
Each person will have a different composition for the army stack. Some like to put a few divisions in there and have the army do some of the fighting, others like it to be only artillery/cavalry to aid a corps being attacked. There is no 100% right or wrong, it's how you use your units. Personally, I have the army function just like another corps in the unit (I place 2/3 divisions in it, and have it take a place in the line). This way, it helps defend a line, and as the CSA, you get few 2* generals. I feel that I need to have the army in the defensive line (helps prevent flanking). If you leave the army without divisions, but with artillery only for example, the army must be behind the corps, and can not defend a section of the line. For me, that means my defensive positions now have 1 less region covered, and the enemy can more easily flank my defensive line. But that is just my take on how to use an army.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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I agree about support units, although extra supply units in the army rather than a corps is a good idea because a retreating stack can loose supply (and artillery), and so it isn't a good idea to have too much on the front line when unnecessary. Also, I think the army is more likely to march to the sound of guns than a corps, if a nearby corps is in a battle, so it seems smart to me to treat it as a fighting army. When marching to the sound of guns, a stack only fights at closer ranges, so while putting a lot of artillery there seems appealing, and can have a good affect, artillery that isn't involved in the beginning of the fight looses the chance to give hits at a range. For me, I usually need corps commanders, so fighting armies makes sense.
They are completely different. In AACW, you needed an HQ unit to create an army. During beta, we discussed this aspect, and determined that it seemed contrived to most of us. We decided to change the game so an army could be formed without an HQ unit. We left the unit in the game, but now it is a non-essential support unit.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Captain_Orso
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The HQ Support units a bit more than meets the eye. They are equivalent to a Signal Corp and a Hospital Unit combined into one Unit, plus they have the Training Master ability, which gives each element of the stack it is in 1 XP per turn those elements are in the stack with the HQ Support Unit.
This means, if you have an HQ Support Unit in a Corps stack with 4 divisions, each and every element in that stack will gain 1 XP per turn it is not moving. That's nothing to scoff at.
This means, if you have an HQ Support Unit in a Corps stack with 4 divisions, each and every element in that stack will gain 1 XP per turn it is not moving. That's nothing to scoff at.
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charlesonmission
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Does it make sense to have another Hospital and Signal Corp in the Army with the HQ Support unit as well? Ie... cumulative benefits?
Captain_Orso wrote:The HQ Support units a bit more than meets the eye. They are equivalent to a Signal Corp and a Hospital Unit combined into one Unit, plus they have the Training Master ability, which gives each element of the stack it is in 1 XP per turn those elements are in the stack with the HQ Support Unit.
This means, if you have an HQ Support Unit in a Corps stack with 4 divisions, each and every element in that stack will gain 1 XP per turn it is not moving. That's nothing to scoff at.
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Captain_Orso
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A stack with an army commander is still a stack and should have the proper number of Divisions for the terrain. A stack that you intend to use to win a battle or campaign should have both an HQ unit and a hospital, a pontoon unit and an enginner and probably a balloon. It should also not come up short on ammo.
A region can only support a finite amount of combat elements and support elements for combat operations. If you somehow attacked a mountain region in winter with a stack that had 100 infantry elements and 100 artillery elements, then very few of the elements would actually do anything and the rest of your force would be wasted. I don't pour a bottle of milk into one glass and I don't use more (or less) Divisions in a stack than are necessary for combat operations. If a stack is attacking/defending in closed terrain, then use fewer Divisions/loose artillery. The opposite would make sense in open terrain. If your stack is fighting through several regions, then use the most elements supported by the best terrain so that you aren't shuffling units around.
Put one element in a stack by itself and check how long it will take to entrench to the next level. Then add an engineer to that one unit's stack and check it again. Now add a pontoon unit to the stack with the unit and the engineer. A stack with a pontoon and engineer unit will entrench most quickly.
Now take one element and move it to the limit of it's reach for one turn and check it's cohesion at the end of the move. Reload this turn and add a hospital unit to the one unit and do the experiment again. Finally, add an HQ unit to the stack with the hospital and the one unit. The unit will lose the least amount of cohesion when both a hospital and an HQ unit are present.
As an exception, a signal unit and an HQ unit do not both add Command Points to a stack, although an additional balloon unit will.
A large stack can use a large amount of ammo in a round of combat. A stack with only one Supply Unit may run out of ammo in a battle of several rounds. Design your stacks to win battles. If you fail to win, the loss of a SU should be the least of your worries.
A region can only support a finite amount of combat elements and support elements for combat operations. If you somehow attacked a mountain region in winter with a stack that had 100 infantry elements and 100 artillery elements, then very few of the elements would actually do anything and the rest of your force would be wasted. I don't pour a bottle of milk into one glass and I don't use more (or less) Divisions in a stack than are necessary for combat operations. If a stack is attacking/defending in closed terrain, then use fewer Divisions/loose artillery. The opposite would make sense in open terrain. If your stack is fighting through several regions, then use the most elements supported by the best terrain so that you aren't shuffling units around.
Put one element in a stack by itself and check how long it will take to entrench to the next level. Then add an engineer to that one unit's stack and check it again. Now add a pontoon unit to the stack with the unit and the engineer. A stack with a pontoon and engineer unit will entrench most quickly.
Now take one element and move it to the limit of it's reach for one turn and check it's cohesion at the end of the move. Reload this turn and add a hospital unit to the one unit and do the experiment again. Finally, add an HQ unit to the stack with the hospital and the one unit. The unit will lose the least amount of cohesion when both a hospital and an HQ unit are present.
As an exception, a signal unit and an HQ unit do not both add Command Points to a stack, although an additional balloon unit will.
A large stack can use a large amount of ammo in a round of combat. A stack with only one Supply Unit may run out of ammo in a battle of several rounds. Design your stacks to win battles. If you fail to win, the loss of a SU should be the least of your worries.
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Captain_Orso
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Damn, and I though I was long-winded 
All that just to say -the affects of a Field Hospital's Medical Service ability unit and the HQ Support unit's Medical Service ability are cumulative... which they are not.
The 10% speed increase of the Pioneer element (Pontooneer unit and various other flavor units) may be cumulative with the 35% speed increase of the Engineer element (Engineer unit and various other flavor units), because they are different abilities. The Medical Service ability of the HQ Support unit and the Field Hospital unit are however the same ability, and I know of no abilities that are cumulative of the number or elements which enjoy those abilities.
Testing for cohesion loss is not a one-shot-cut-n-dry process; there a chance variable in cohesion loss for units. Additionally the terrain being moved through, even the loyalty and MC of the regions, affect cohesion.
If you want a more cogent demonstration of how abilities are not cumulative, take the following 4 types of units and put them into the same region: 1. a flavor unit consisting of a single elite infantry element, eg: Bull Run Bde, 2. a flavor unit with a number of elite elements, eg: Irish Legion, which has 5 elite elements, 3. any infantry brigade, 4. a leader with which you have created a division with the infantry brigade in 3.
Check the Maximum Cohesion of an infantry element of the normal unit in the division and write it down. To do this, break down the division, select the normal unit in the Stack Panel so that its constituent elements are displayed in the Inspection Panel, select an infantry element of the normal unit -write its name down- and click on that element's NATO symbol in the Inspection Panel. In the element detail window, in the lower-left box it will show the element's cohesion values -"Cohesion: xx/yy"- where "xx" is it's current cohesion and "yy" is its Maximum Cohesion. Write down the Maximum Cohesion value.
Now recombine the normal unit into the division and add the Bull Run Bde, or what ever single element elite unit you have selected, and run the turn without doing anything else with the division.
Elite elements have the Strong Morale ability
"This element is either composed of highly motivated, battle-hardened individuals or is a leader capable of inspiring his men. The inspiration provided gives a +5 Maximum Cohesion bonus to all other elements of the unit."
Since a division is a unit, if there is a single elite element in the division --the Bull Run Bde-- each element of the entire division will have its Maximum Cohesion raised by 5.
You have to run the turn to see this change, because what you are doing on the map is actually only planning. It does not occur until the turn runs. In fact, if you turn the "Focus on Move" option off and center your display on the region, once the game is through plotting the enemy faction's move and other things, right after is says "Loading Master File" you can see that the Bull Run Bde is not in the division; it's there to see in the region. As soon as the first day starts it will be put into the division; you can see the Bull Run Bde disappear from the map and the strength of the division increase.
Now check the Maximum Cohesion value of the same element of your normal brigade as I described above. You will see that the Max Coh has risen 5 points.
Now add the Irish Legion into the division too and run a turn. If the Strong Morale ability were cumulative the element of the normal brigade will not have its Max Coh raised by 5 points, but by 30(!!) [6 * 5].
One thing that is calculated for the player immediately is cohesion recovery. Take any unit with lowered cohesion standing in a town region, but outside the town, and check its tool-tip for its cohesion recovery per day; "Average Cohesion: xx/yy (Variation: z.zz / day)". Now drop that unit into the town and check it again. You will find that the recovery rate will have risen substantially.
Take a Field Hospital and an HQ Support unit and do the same while stacking the unit with one, the other and then both at the same time. You will find that regardless of which you stack it with --or both-- that the rate of recovery is the same.
All that just to say -the affects of a Field Hospital's Medical Service ability unit and the HQ Support unit's Medical Service ability are cumulative... which they are not.
The 10% speed increase of the Pioneer element (Pontooneer unit and various other flavor units) may be cumulative with the 35% speed increase of the Engineer element (Engineer unit and various other flavor units), because they are different abilities. The Medical Service ability of the HQ Support unit and the Field Hospital unit are however the same ability, and I know of no abilities that are cumulative of the number or elements which enjoy those abilities.
Testing for cohesion loss is not a one-shot-cut-n-dry process; there a chance variable in cohesion loss for units. Additionally the terrain being moved through, even the loyalty and MC of the regions, affect cohesion.
If you want a more cogent demonstration of how abilities are not cumulative, take the following 4 types of units and put them into the same region: 1. a flavor unit consisting of a single elite infantry element, eg: Bull Run Bde, 2. a flavor unit with a number of elite elements, eg: Irish Legion, which has 5 elite elements, 3. any infantry brigade, 4. a leader with which you have created a division with the infantry brigade in 3.
Check the Maximum Cohesion of an infantry element of the normal unit in the division and write it down. To do this, break down the division, select the normal unit in the Stack Panel so that its constituent elements are displayed in the Inspection Panel, select an infantry element of the normal unit -write its name down- and click on that element's NATO symbol in the Inspection Panel. In the element detail window, in the lower-left box it will show the element's cohesion values -"Cohesion: xx/yy"- where "xx" is it's current cohesion and "yy" is its Maximum Cohesion. Write down the Maximum Cohesion value.
Now recombine the normal unit into the division and add the Bull Run Bde, or what ever single element elite unit you have selected, and run the turn without doing anything else with the division.
Elite elements have the Strong Morale ability
"This element is either composed of highly motivated, battle-hardened individuals or is a leader capable of inspiring his men. The inspiration provided gives a +5 Maximum Cohesion bonus to all other elements of the unit."
Since a division is a unit, if there is a single elite element in the division --the Bull Run Bde-- each element of the entire division will have its Maximum Cohesion raised by 5.
You have to run the turn to see this change, because what you are doing on the map is actually only planning. It does not occur until the turn runs. In fact, if you turn the "Focus on Move" option off and center your display on the region, once the game is through plotting the enemy faction's move and other things, right after is says "Loading Master File" you can see that the Bull Run Bde is not in the division; it's there to see in the region. As soon as the first day starts it will be put into the division; you can see the Bull Run Bde disappear from the map and the strength of the division increase.
Now check the Maximum Cohesion value of the same element of your normal brigade as I described above. You will see that the Max Coh has risen 5 points.
Now add the Irish Legion into the division too and run a turn. If the Strong Morale ability were cumulative the element of the normal brigade will not have its Max Coh raised by 5 points, but by 30(!!) [6 * 5].
One thing that is calculated for the player immediately is cohesion recovery. Take any unit with lowered cohesion standing in a town region, but outside the town, and check its tool-tip for its cohesion recovery per day; "Average Cohesion: xx/yy (Variation: z.zz / day)". Now drop that unit into the town and check it again. You will find that the recovery rate will have risen substantially.
Take a Field Hospital and an HQ Support unit and do the same while stacking the unit with one, the other and then both at the same time. You will find that regardless of which you stack it with --or both-- that the rate of recovery is the same.
I never posted anything about a cumulative effect from multiple elite units to a stack. So thanks for clarifying that. As to what I did post, the evidence speaks for itself.
A unit with a hospital and an HQ unit did have higher cohesion after a move than one with only a hospital or HQ unit.
A unit with both an engineer and a pontoon unit did entrench in less time than one with only one or the other.
I posted the results of the experiments so that doubters could try it for themselves.
P.S. I just re-read the manual for movement/resting (pp. 45-46) and there is no mention of any kind of "a chance variable" loss or gain to cohesion. Do you have a reference?
A unit with a hospital and an HQ unit did have higher cohesion after a move than one with only a hospital or HQ unit.
A unit with both an engineer and a pontoon unit did entrench in less time than one with only one or the other.
I posted the results of the experiments so that doubters could try it for themselves.
P.S. I just re-read the manual for movement/resting (pp. 45-46) and there is no mention of any kind of "a chance variable" loss or gain to cohesion. Do you have a reference?
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Captain_Orso
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Gray Fox wrote:I never posted anything about a cumulative effect from multiple elite units to a stack. So thanks for clarifying that. As to what I did post, the evidence speaks for itself.
No you didn't and I didn't say that you did. I presented that as an example of how the game engine handles multiple elements with the same ability, which I also stated.
Gray Fox wrote:A unit with a hospital and an HQ unit did have higher cohesion after a move than one with only a hospital or HQ unit.
I have not claimed that the two elements with the same ability do not have a cumulative effect, I have shown you how to demonstrate it for yourself. Believe what you want to believe; but believing isn't knowing.
Gray Fox wrote:A unit with both an engineer and a pontoon unit did entrench in less time than one with only one or the other.
As I stated, they may well do, because those are two different abilities taking their effects.
Gray Fox wrote:I posted the results of the experiments so that doubters could try it for themselves.
And I posted that doing a single experiment will not show you all possible outcomes, and showed you how you can see for yourself how things work. Take it or leave it, that's you choice.
Gray Fox wrote:P.S. I just re-read the manual for movement/resting (pp. 45-46) and there is no mention of any kind of "a chance variable" loss or gain to cohesion. Do you have a reference?
I don't have it off hand. It's something I read in the forum and something I experimented with running numerous iterations of the experiment and not just one.
I'm sorry that the manual doesn't contain nearly the detail that it might, not that I'm responsible for that, but those are the facts.
I haven't tested but it could be that you're both right. I always thought what Captain Orso said is the way it's supposed to be.
In other words HQ and hospital abilities aren't cumulative.
If Gray Fox gets different results, it might be a possible bug or maybe it's a glitch due to the way patches were installed?
Ideally you would run each others experiment and see what the result is.
You should both get the same results
In other words HQ and hospital abilities aren't cumulative.
If Gray Fox gets different results, it might be a possible bug or maybe it's a glitch due to the way patches were installed?
Ideally you would run each others experiment and see what the result is.
You should both get the same results
Gentlemen, I don't believe that I witnessed the exact results that I posted, I know that I did. If you believe my computer has a bug or a glitch that caused these results, then try them on your computer and prove this. Apparently, someone posted long ago that a random factor exists in cohesion recovery that is not documented anywhere. Perhaps someone could do something to prove its existence so that we could all pen it into our manuals. In light of the good Captain's concerns about variables in my cohesion recovery experiment, I will simplify it. I'm going to move a unit around until it is very low on cohesion and then move it to a region with the HQ and hospital units. I'll record the starting cohesion and then run one turn with just the unit, then reload with a hospital added and finally with both a hospital and HQ. That way there's no more moving once the experiment begins.
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Captain_Orso
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I hope that a .jpg is worth a kilobyte of text. Having both an engineer and pontoon unit present improved entrenching time from 15 days to 9.
[ATTACH]29373[/ATTACH]
As I posted above, I moved a stack until their cohesion was low. The stack included a line infantry, conscript infantry, cavalry, artillery, light infantry and two volunteer units for a thorough examination. I then added a hospital unit and took one turn with the result in the picture below. All units improved cohesion, but I can only have 5 pictures in a post, so I have shown the line infantry unit result. I then reloaded the turn and added the HQ unit as well and took the turn again. As you can see in the picture, the cohesion is now lower with both a hospital and HQ unit. Some of the other units did have higher results. Obviously, both a hospital and an HQ together should not produce a lower result. The only plausible explanation, is that both do not add a cumulative effect to a stack and that a "chance variable" was responsible for the lower cohesion result. This also explains why I originally received a higher result in my first experiment, when random chance produced a greater result for both a hospital and an HQ unit.
So Captain Orso's assertions are correct. It is now a logical conclusion drawn from visible evidence collected in an experiment that anyone can reproduce. It is no longer a mere claim that someone read in an unknown post.
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As I posted above, I moved a stack until their cohesion was low. The stack included a line infantry, conscript infantry, cavalry, artillery, light infantry and two volunteer units for a thorough examination. I then added a hospital unit and took one turn with the result in the picture below. All units improved cohesion, but I can only have 5 pictures in a post, so I have shown the line infantry unit result. I then reloaded the turn and added the HQ unit as well and took the turn again. As you can see in the picture, the cohesion is now lower with both a hospital and HQ unit. Some of the other units did have higher results. Obviously, both a hospital and an HQ together should not produce a lower result. The only plausible explanation, is that both do not add a cumulative effect to a stack and that a "chance variable" was responsible for the lower cohesion result. This also explains why I originally received a higher result in my first experiment, when random chance produced a greater result for both a hospital and an HQ unit.
So Captain Orso's assertions are correct. It is now a logical conclusion drawn from visible evidence collected in an experiment that anyone can reproduce. It is no longer a mere claim that someone read in an unknown post.
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Captain_Orso
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Good job!! 
A couple of fine points. You will note that your units took some hits while moving through the winter terrain. Since your units are not sitting on a town, it's rather unlikely, though not impossible, that they get hits replaced while recovering. This too will change the units cohesion, although I don't know to what extent. I believe the replaced hits are at 100% cohesion, so you can calculate what the effect might be.
Looking at each element directly will give you their exact Max and current cohesion level, whereby the unit's tool-tip will give an average over all elements, and you will probably have noted that in the units you used, most of the elements have different Max cohesion levels. Unless there is some noted anomaly for this test the tool-tip would also suffice since all the elements should be regaining cohesion at the same relative rate.
Something I discovered while doing my own testing is that having a Medical Service element in the stack already raises the Max Cohesion by about 10%. That I didn't know myself and it's not in the tool-tip of the Medical Service either. So we've both learned something new now
A tip about adding illustrations, use a photo-sharing website; then there's basically no limit to the number of illustrations you can put into one post since they are only links in the post and the uploaded screen shots are actually somewhere else.
Also, a full screen screen shot is seldom necessary. Using the Snipping tool or a program like Greenshot will allow you to create screen shots of just the area of the screen you want to show, without having to use an editor to crop them down to size. Greenshot also allows you capture the mouse pointer in the shot, which is very helpful in illustrations, to show the audience exactly what you're doing at the time.
I've been using Photobucket for years now. I don't know how many Gb of pics I have hosted there, but I'm only at 11% capacity, so I don't think I'll ever run out of space. Aslo, Photobucket has never reduces the size of a screen shot I've uploaded, regardless of how large, like others do, neither the upload itself, nor the linked image being displayed. I started out using ImageShack, but at least back then with larger screen shots they would only display only a shrunken image in the forum if it was larger that about 600x800 and I have lots of images larger than that. Other hosters like Picasa or Flickr might also work, but I'm so satisfied with Photobucket, I don't know what another might do better.
A couple of fine points. You will note that your units took some hits while moving through the winter terrain. Since your units are not sitting on a town, it's rather unlikely, though not impossible, that they get hits replaced while recovering. This too will change the units cohesion, although I don't know to what extent. I believe the replaced hits are at 100% cohesion, so you can calculate what the effect might be.
Looking at each element directly will give you their exact Max and current cohesion level, whereby the unit's tool-tip will give an average over all elements, and you will probably have noted that in the units you used, most of the elements have different Max cohesion levels. Unless there is some noted anomaly for this test the tool-tip would also suffice since all the elements should be regaining cohesion at the same relative rate.
Something I discovered while doing my own testing is that having a Medical Service element in the stack already raises the Max Cohesion by about 10%. That I didn't know myself and it's not in the tool-tip of the Medical Service either. So we've both learned something new now
A tip about adding illustrations, use a photo-sharing website; then there's basically no limit to the number of illustrations you can put into one post since they are only links in the post and the uploaded screen shots are actually somewhere else.
Also, a full screen screen shot is seldom necessary. Using the Snipping tool or a program like Greenshot will allow you to create screen shots of just the area of the screen you want to show, without having to use an editor to crop them down to size. Greenshot also allows you capture the mouse pointer in the shot, which is very helpful in illustrations, to show the audience exactly what you're doing at the time.
I've been using Photobucket for years now. I don't know how many Gb of pics I have hosted there, but I'm only at 11% capacity, so I don't think I'll ever run out of space. Aslo, Photobucket has never reduces the size of a screen shot I've uploaded, regardless of how large, like others do, neither the upload itself, nor the linked image being displayed. I started out using ImageShack, but at least back then with larger screen shots they would only display only a shrunken image in the forum if it was larger that about 600x800 and I have lots of images larger than that. Other hosters like Picasa or Flickr might also work, but I'm so satisfied with Photobucket, I don't know what another might do better.
Thanks for the experiment Gray Fox.
To conclude, pontoons and engineers' abilities stack in orde to entrench faster.
The abilities of a HQ and Medical unit don't stack.
In other words, use the HQ unit in, well, euh, the army and the medical unit in corps.
If this is a frontline army/corps combo, both should contain a pontoon and an engineer for optimal results
To conclude, pontoons and engineers' abilities stack in orde to entrench faster.
The abilities of a HQ and Medical unit don't stack.
In other words, use the HQ unit in, well, euh, the army and the medical unit in corps.
If this is a frontline army/corps combo, both should contain a pontoon and an engineer for optimal results
I'm not sure. Another explanation could be that: taking hits due to weather is random (I think this is true, at least taking hits due to epidemics is), cohesion could be deterministic, and the cohesion cases could stack. In that case, he could have randomly took hits in the run with the HQ unit that he didn't take in the other run. Or am I reading this wrong?
Thanks to all those who share my uncompromising devotion to finding the truth.
Captain Orso, I only got a 5 point increase to max cohesion when I added either the HQ or hospital unit and no more for adding both.
Tripax, perhaps someone else should really test this to see if weather hits were a cause. It's a pretty simple test.
Captain Orso, I only got a 5 point increase to max cohesion when I added either the HQ or hospital unit and no more for adding both.
Tripax, perhaps someone else should really test this to see if weather hits were a cause. It's a pretty simple test.
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Captain_Orso
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*sigh*
Here's the test:
Cohesion loss and hits --the more extreme effect of Wear-n-Tear™-- are NOT absolute values. Chance is always involve, although only to a lesser extent, and not really much to worry about. You're not going do something with a unit and arrive quite healthy and then do the exact same thing with an identical unit under identical circumstances and get extremely different results.
I hope this has cleared up all question about cohesion and medical service. Now I'm going to do my own recovery... NURSE!!
Ahhh, there she is
Here's the test:
- Take a unit with 1x Line Infantry, 1x Conscript, 1x 6 lb and 1x Early war cavalry - Ammen's Bde. from Ohio.
- Starting in April '63 run them from Cairo lL up to Milwaukee WI, then over into Iowa and down to the region directly below Chicago.
- While Ammen is running the marathon, send a Field Hospital and an HQ Support up to the finish line.
- After 5 or six turns Ammen arrives all sweaty and tuckered out (18 cohesion)
- Wait a turn (46 cohesion)
- Wait another turn (72 cohesion FULL)
- Turn the game back 2 turns to where Ammen had just arrived and put the Field Hospital unit in Ammen's stack (18 cohesion) Note: Ammen's Bde. immediately has Max Cohesion of 78 and not 72 as before
- Wait a turn (49 cohesion)
- Wait another turn (77 cohesion - practically FULL) Note: Ammen's Bde. must recover to 78 and not 72 as before, which explains why with the FH after 2 turns Ammen is not yet at 100%
- Turn the game back 2 turns to where Ammen had just arrived and put the HQ Support unit in Ammen's stack (18 cohesion)
- Wait a turn (50 cohesion) Note: a 1 point difference to with the FH
- Wait another turn (77 cohesion - practically FULL) Note: exactly the same as with the FH
- Turn the game back 2 turns to where Ammen had just arrived and put the Field Hospital AND HQ Support unit in Ammen's stack (17 cohesion) Note: I got carried away and turned back 1 turn too many. When Ammen's Bde. arrived, it had 17 Cohesion, and not 18 as originally. This is a perfect example of how under identical circumstances 2 different --albeit very close-- results can occur.
- Wait a turn (49 cohesion) Note: exactly the same as with the FH alone and almost exactly the same as with the HQ-S alone
- Wait another turn (77 cohesion - practically FULL) Note: exactly the same as with the FH alone and the HQ-S alone
Cohesion loss and hits --the more extreme effect of Wear-n-Tear™-- are NOT absolute values. Chance is always involve, although only to a lesser extent, and not really much to worry about. You're not going do something with a unit and arrive quite healthy and then do the exact same thing with an identical unit under identical circumstances and get extremely different results.
I hope this has cleared up all question about cohesion and medical service. Now I'm going to do my own recovery... NURSE!!
Ahhh, there she is
I always assumed that nothing stacked. I've leaned that Engineering stacks skills stack across at least certain units, but I believe you are correct that HQ abilities don't stack. Any idea if training master generals stack with HQ units? To me, though, I can never afford enough support units for stacking to be of much use anyway. Thanks everyone for the lessons, though!
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Ol' Choctaw
- Posts: 1642
- Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:13 pm
apy: Wait!Do note however the effects of the various tests on the final Combat Strength of the unit.
This needs looked into in that last test.
With no support and full cohesion, strength = 111
With field hospital &77 cohesion, strength = 112
With HQ unit and 77 cohesion, strength = 113
That would be due perhaps to the effects of training.
With both support units however, and 77 cohesion it has jumped to a combat strength of 116.
Why!
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