Sharpshooters

[ArmChairGeneral]

moni kerr (whom I find to be reliable)

I agree, but Ol' Choctaw is also a reliable poster.

Based on all of my reading and experience, GraniteStater's interpretation of "unit" is exactly correct. The tooltips and manual say SS applies to the unit, while Ol' Choctaw says stack, and examinations of the battlelog text files are inconclusive. Perhaps a ruling from the judges is in order....

[GraniteStater]

I don't question O'C's reliability, nor meant to impute such. All I can say, per a post above, that I thought it was clear in AACW and the tooltip seems to support the explicit bonus being conferred upon, and confined to, the unit of which the SS is a part.

It is possible that there is a mechanic that exists for a transitory bonus applied or s. t. similar 'per round'. That, I have no ideas about.

[Captain_Orso]

I'm going to chime in on this at this late date just to muddy the waters a bit

This is actually from the AACW forum section, but still applies to CW2: Force Compositions? Post #9

The question comes down to, for whom does the initiative bonus work if the Sharpshooter regiment is in a division? IIRC the Battle Engine picks opposing brigades to face off at each other in battle. This is regardless of whether the brigades are in divisions or not, but IIRC there is some advantage to having brigades in a division beyond the Command Point cost in that they will be more likely to come to each other's support in battle (this is the nitty-gritty of the Battle Engine and I don't remember too many details).

The best brigades (experience, cohesion, strength (offensive/defensive depending on Posture), etc is evaluated) will be the first picked to fill the Frontage first and fight in a battle. Other brigades are in reserve and can fill gaps in the frontage if they appear because of elements breaking and retreating or being routed.

But when looking at a single SS "unit" inside a division, how will this work, if brigades are facing off at each other? My understanding is that the +1 Initiative bonus applies to all elements fighting which belong to that division. So if Hancock's Brigades is in Hancock's division along with the 12th Pennsylvania Sharpshooters and Hancock's Brigade is selected to oppose, let's say The Stonewall Brigade in Ewell's division, all of the element's in Hancock's Brigade will enjoy the +1 Initiative Bonus when both opposing brigades start firing at each other. The +1 Initiative Bonus will give all the elements a slight advantage of being able to fire first and cause hits before the opposing force can fire. Of course this is assuming that Ewell's division doesn't have a Sharpshooter in it. If it too has a Sharpshooter element, then the bonuses cancel each other out.

Also, for those who like to get into the nitty-gritty you might like to read this too: Lt. Infantry with experience = Sharpshooters?

My opinion on Sharpshooters? No division without one; don't leave home without it

[RebelYell]

I'm going to chime in on this at this late date just to muddy the waters a bit

This is actually from the AACW forum section, but still applies to CW2: Force Compositions? Post #9

The question comes down to, for whom does the initiative bonus work if the Sharpshooter regiment is in a division? IIRC the Battle Engine picks opposing brigades to face off at each other in battle. This is regardless of whether the brigades are in divisions or not, but IIRC there is some advantage to having brigades in a division beyond the Command Point cost in that they will be more likely to come to each other's support in battle (this is the nitty-gritty of the Battle Engine and I don't remember too many details).

The best brigades (experience, cohesion, strength (offensive/defensive depending on Posture), etc is evaluated) will be the first picked to fill the Frontage first and fight in a battle. Other brigades are in reserve and can fill gaps in the frontage if they appear because of elements breaking and retreating or being routed.

But when looking at a single SS "unit" inside a division, how will this work, if brigades are facing off at each other? My understanding is that the +1 Initiative bonus applies to all elements fighting which belong to that division. So if Hancock's Brigades is in Hancock's division along with the 12th Pennsylvania Sharpshooters and Hancock's Brigade is selected to oppose, let's say The Stonewall Brigade in Ewell's division, all of the element's in Hancock's Brigade will enjoy the +1 Initiative Bonus when both opposing brigades start firing at each other. The +1 Initiative Bonus will give all the elements a slight advantage of being able to fire first and cause hits before the opposing force can fire. Of course this is assuming that Ewell's division doesn't have a Sharpshooter in it. If it too has a Sharpshooter element, then the bonuses cancel each other out.

Also, for those who like to get into the nitty-gritty you might like to read this too: Lt. Infantry with experience = Sharpshooters?

My opinion on Sharpshooters? No division without one; don't leave home without it

This is news to me, that brigades pick each other from within divisions..
I thought it would be divisions picking divisions and they randomly take on any elements that fit the frontage.

And if this is so then we really should be able to construct our own brigades, I dont like so much the ones youget to produce but I like the divisions that I make from them.

[Gray Fox]

From the Wiki:
"Who goes first?
The order of fire is determined by the initiative-values of the elements: elements with higher initiative are likely to open fire before elements with lower initiative (there is a random factor involved though!). Each element has an initiative value that can be improved by some abilities or by experience, and can be degraded if the army is under commanded."

If you have a Division with 16 militia (initiative 6) and a sharpshooter, then the militia get a new initiative value of 7 in combat, plus a random factor. A Division of 17 experienced marines with no sharpshooter have an initiative of 10, plus a random number. The marines would most likely always fire first and would benefit from an extra 600 marines versus 150 sharshooters. So it all depends on how big the unknown "random factor!" is. If the factor is small, then high initiative elements can ignore the use of sharshooters. If it is large, then individual initiative is not much of a factor and again, the sharpshooter's +1 is negligible.

[ArmChairGeneral]

I don't question O'C's reliability, nor meant to impute such.

And I wasn't trying to say moni kerr isn't reliable, I listen to him too, which is why I am now unsure on this issue that I (like you) thought was settled. Our usual sources disagree....

[soundoff]

In AACW a sharpshooter in a division conferred the +1 initiative bonus to all elements in the division. If loose in a stack they only provided the bonus to themselves or their brigade if they were an integral part of the brigade. I'd assumed the same was true for CW2 but perhaps not.

[GraniteStater]

And I wasn't trying to say moni kerr isn't reliable, I listen to him too, which is why I am now unsure on this issue that I (like you) thought was settled. Our usual sources disagree....

If this were a civil action in a court, two things: (a) the standard for a judgment is "the preponderance of the evidence", and (b) stasis dicere (previous rulings, essentially). Both favor the assumption that it is the same as AACW, i. e., only to the unit of which the SS element is a part.

Note that when either a standalone SS or a SS brigade is in a Div, the icon is shown, i. e., it is conferring a specific benefit - on the Div, i. e., that unit.