AI - Low aggression, High aggression?

[Turbo823]

Whats the most challenging setting? A lot of posts on here seem to indicate low aggression. With all the patches has that changed?

[GShock]

Whats the most challenging setting? A lot of posts on here seem to indicate low aggression. With all the patches has that changed?

It all depends on what you want from your AI opponent and what side you're playing with.

I came out winning with CSA against normal AI but i've had increasing problems by sliding up the activation rolls and the increased FOW. Increasing the FOW counters the need to apply an aggressivness bonus. The AI will come to you as Union with sheer masses of troopers. Activation roll bonuses are a cherry on cake as CSA vs Union AI bc Union has poor strategic ratings and most of its generals are very inactive.

On the other hand, i only played as Union once, so i don't really know how CSA with different levels acts.

It has to be noted that 1.09e has a serious bug in redeployment of Army HQ which seriously hurts AI as opponent. Once that is fixed, most likely these statements will have to be reassessed.

Ultimately, if you have learned your way against the AI i suggest you to try the PBEM vs human opponent (start as Union first). Trust me it's a totally different game and much more intriguing.

[Turbo823]

Wow, first the steep learning curve and just when I get ready to play my first campaign, I find out that the AI is broken. I like the support the game designers give but I'd also like to play this game eventually. Geez..

[pepe4158]

I have to agree with Shock Turbo...there is no AI deveised on this planet, that you cant eventually find its weakness and exploit. Every game, and owned 100's litteraly war games Ive owned I always fnd the AI weakness and exploit it.
How...easy, the AI cant see the board like you do (with real eyes)n quess what your up to, it can of course only respond to its flags and priorties after you trigger them. N so your for-knowledge of this always gives you the upper hand.
I feel like adding a tag that says something like, 'Never saw an AI I didnt want to beat the cra$ out of'

[GShock]

As i said, the best thing is to consider the AI a sparring partner. When you see you beat it you increase its levels, then ultimately move to PBEM.

You can play 10 pbems at the same time and spend the same time you spend on the game with the AI but of course the human opponent is much a more credible one and gives you much more problems and satisfactions.

Increasing the AI activation rolls makes the AI much more aggressive by itself for the moving and sieging generals even just occasionally, advance side by side which gives them the marching to the guns possibility. Furthenmore, losing a depot or a settlement to a siege can bring in a lot of changes compared to the standard activation rolls the AI has and this is particularly true for Union AI whose generals have low strategic ratings.

Increasing the AI FOW limits makes CSA human raids much harder. The AI also achieves an extra aggressiveness because it comes to siege you knowing you have small defenses in settlements.

Finally coming to the aggressiveness itself, many experienced players have said they prefer to play with low aggressiveness because the AI is too careless with attacking. I don't know about this but i found that the other two settings change dramatically its performances so i leave it on normal which is optimum.

The coming fury mod is being tested with fow slight advantage + low aggressiveness for example and i think these settings are good for Union AI but not for CSA AI. Athena is one and i doubt it has different policies depending on which side it's playing so in the end we come to the most important change: The human opponent.

There exists no AI that can beat a human. Even when chess computers beat grandmasters do not forget the human components of nerves, fatigue, emotions that come into play. Now imagine AI in such a complex game as AACW...bugs are welcome.

It's 18th of April...the patch is coming soon ehehehe

[berto]

I have to agree with Shock Turbo...there is no AI deveised on this planet, that you cant eventually find its weakness and exploit. Every game, and owned 100's litteraly war games Ive owned I always fnd the AI weakness and exploit it... I feel like adding a tag that says something like, 'Never saw an AI I didnt want to beat the cra$ out of'

As for me, I don't go looking for AI weaknesses, but if I find them, I try to restrain myself.

Consider Michael Jordan. When he plays basketball with his kids, does he:

(a) Give it his full effort, beat the crap out of them, humiliating them in the process?

(b) Ease up, not try so hard, give them a fighting chance to win?

Basketball's a game after all. You don't absolutely have to win.

Of course, while still an NBA pro, and playing against other pros, Jordan would play as (a). But then it's his job, maybe no longer a game, and having fun on the job may be secondary.

I can have fun playing against computer game AIs, but only if I practice restraint (and maybe handicap myself in certain ways).

So why don't I try PBEM? Chiefly because: I have too many other obligations in life. If, as often happens, my life takes me in different directions so that I don't have much if any gaming time, I don't want to feel guilty about not attending to my PBEM game(s) in a timely fashion. Obligation isn't fun. The computer game AI won't care if (after doing a save and shutting down the game) my next turn is next week, or next month, or whatever. Freedom is fun.

Different strokes for different folks, and all that...

[GShock]

Consider Michael Jordan. When he plays basketball with his kids, does he: OMISSIS

The kids select his skills in the difficulty panel.

So why don't I try PBEM? Chiefly because: I have too many other obligations in life. If, as often happens, my life takes me in different directions so that I don't have much if any gaming time, I don't want to feel guilty about not attending to my PBEM game(s) in a timely fashion.

I understand that but it's actually all about the pace at which the game must proceed. Nobody in this world, i think, doesn't have 1 hour free in 15 days to play. PBEM games allow things that ip/ip games don't.

As of the AI and difficulty levels, this is a minefield. A good AI doesn't need bonus on die rolls.
When playing as CSA i don't forget that Union Armies are inactive because McDowell was very unself confident and those Lincoln wanted to send to battle were totally green troops. If i increase the activation bonus, then Mc Dowell comes oh if he comes, and the CSA is history.

On one part i fight with myself because i want it to be more challenging, on the other side, i feel like i am being cheated bc it rolls with the help. In the end it's good that there are so many options. Everyone chooses the McDowell he wants!

If you want a historical McDowell, leave the activation rolls as they are.

[pepe4158]

Consider Michael Jordan. When he plays basketball with his kids, does he:

(a) Give it his full effort, beat the crap out of them, humiliating them in the process.

Different strokes for different folks, and all that...

LOL....aww comon man...hardly a good analogy....so Athena is now having insecurity issues and deep seated depression?????? cuz I just kicked the grap outta her again on hard as the CSA by ripping her off taking DC?

Took me 11 turns this time as I didnt take DC first try with Jackson ....waited a turn.....can always count on Athena to NOT understand shes in mortal danger but her little AI is content shes slaughtering me everywhere else LOL

Then WHAM I take DC...I get the I-WIN-MESSAGE....even tho Im losing everywhere else almost ...hardly historically accurate lol, and certainly a human player would have responded better CUZ he can SEE the playing board.

I just wish I could somehow prove Im doing this on hard, cause no where in the interface does it say????? unless im missing something, and maybe a patch will fix that 1 day?

But point being even tho I beat her on hard...Im not fairing as well against live opponents as they are playing much better IMO and much more of a challenge. Im learning way more about the game from them, then the AI on strategies that wll work or not.

[Skibear]

Its been said before, but be much more interested to hear when you can beat the AI without taking DC. Thats much more impressive. Or at least make DC be the last thing you take after you have taken St Louis, Lousiville, Cincinatti and Harrisburg. THEN hit DC as the killer blow. Thats the only way you'll know you've actually got better at the game, as at the moment you admit you are getting it handed to you except for exploiting a weakness to get into washington.

[pepe4158]

Look I just play it as I see it....n admit my short commings lol

But point being Im learning the most playing humans PvP....not bone-headed Athena lol

[soloswolf]

Can we please just let this Washington issue die?

And if you don't like the AI's ability, great. Noted. Now, can't we move on?

[pepe4158]

Noted Solo, but this was a thread about the AI ya know, n I didnt start the thread just commenting. N granted it was about her agressiveness but still I think any of her short-commings would be fair game dont you think?

As Jab said to me though...dont expect me to play like Athena...I took that to mean he has a very low idea of her abilities too!

[Coregonas]

Im intrigued

I believe USA AI performs a lot better with Low Aggresion, always had best results... Add some extra bonus to (+1).
In normal he goes on a mad assault mode, just helping CSA to promote his generals for free.

Have you tried this tactic playing versus Athena with LOW Aggresion? Does she (:coeurs performs the same way (i.e. abandon Washington)


Surely CSA AI performs best with High Aggresion, on the early months, but not tried.

[pepe4158]

Hmm no Cor, havent, been wanting to, but im caught up now in as many PvP games which are a lot more fun to me.
She doesnt actually abandon DC....she just cant notice im in the square directly west....forget its name, because it triggers no alert for her, but its a very dangerous square for her to not be able to notice especially when ive thrown everything i can muster into this one gamble....again it doesnt always work, sometimes she just randoms into that square herself, but usually not since there is no rail line there.

[Jabberwock]

Noted Solo, but this was a thread about the AI ya know, n I didnt start the thread just commenting. N granted it was about her agressiveness but still I think any of her short-commings would be fair game dont you think?

As Jab said to me though...dont expect me to play like Athena...I took that to mean he has a very low idea of her abilities too!

As a programmer, I actually have a fairly high regard for Athena's abilities. I never seen her source code, but from looking at the logs of how she makes decisions, I admire what I can deduce of the algorithms behind her reasoning. It also gives me a fairly accurate view of her limitations. No program or programmer can account for everything. no program can make snap judgements the way a person can. No program that will run on a pc should try to incorporate all the reasoning that a human player goes through, or you will end up with a burned out programmer and a bogged down unplayable mess.

She certainly beat me enough times while I was learning the game. Most of my original strategies came from giving Athena different settings and watching what she did with them. Those strategies didn't always work so well for me in early PBEMs. I still needed to learn what would work against a person. Did I learn her specific weaknesses? Sure. I try to do that with all my opponents. So now I don't play to beat Athena, but I still use her as a sparring partner to test and improve new ideas, and learn more about the game mechanics.

[pepe4158]

K I stand corrected Jabber lol...still all in all I actually do too....if I cant feltch my victory at DC...she kicks my butt in and I have to restart on hard...irts about 1 33%-50% chance ill win.
I dunno...maybe Athenas like super-girl and the DC problem is kryptonite to her lol
Still all in all the fix looks easy enough that Im so suprised the topic urks so many of the AGEod staff here to always tell me move on from it lol....I quess its just that a newcomer like myself can boast I beat Athena that way lol...n the fix looks so easy, just half the points a player losses with DC....she storms right back n bloodies me in DC I bet with that fix?

[Jabberwock]

1. 99% of those people aren't staff. They are players who don't like the obsession with one topic. It amuses me, but I'm just wierd. Besides, I obsess about boats vs. forts.

2. When you focus too much on places (or one place), you will fall into the same trap as Athena. Focus on actually winning the war, which you are starting to do, and you will earn more respect.

[GShock]

I'm playing CSA with Union AI on:

Optimized aggression
Slight adv on activation rolls
Medium adv on FOW
Easy foreign intervention (1st tick, so i suppose normal, not easy)
Easy blockade rules to reduce micromanagement

...and i am enjoying it a lot

[Turbo823]

Hmm,

Is there a mod that better distributes the VP? Such as reducing the VP for Washington?

[soloswolf]

Oh, no! A follower for The Church of Changing a Number That Doesn't Matter!

[pepe4158]

Oh, no! A follower for The Church of Changing a Number That Doesn't Matter!

OMG LOL another true believer whos seen the light! about what needs changing the most lol

Actually not a VP point problem...huge morale loss problem; Union morale is low already, and that breaks it. Remember instant win if you drop their morale to 0

Yeah I asked the Admn here they said no, not yet leure: as far as a mod to reduce that cause thats the one id play to practice against Athena with, but let me ask Turbo...were you able to even win that way on hard?...its still not easy n I got slaughtered quite a bit trying to work a plan out.

N like Jabber said, Im tottaly focusing now on being a good PvP player as thats way more challenging IMO

Oh yeah Grudge did it tottaly different then me, and says he still CANT do it on hard, so again I challenge you to say its really not something you will easily fiqure out.

[Turbo823]

Hi Pepe,

I am asking all the questions prior to playing a full campaign. I've played a number of short campaign games on hard settings to get the mechanics down as this is a fairly complex game. My score is about even with the AI (which has me delighted).

I'd like to understand what the various settings are so as to get a challenging game from the AI before I invest a lot of time. I hate investing hours in a game only to find that the game is a blowout because I didn't use the optimal settings for the AI.

[pepe4158]

Unless your the God-of-Wargames, seriously doubt a blow out, especially on hard,slightly doubtfull on normal, your first campaign.
Maybe your third or fourth tho (on normal), but remember they are extremly long campaigms and easy to forget things, where Athena NEVER forgets, and thats her advantage.
Maybe if you use the DC trick following Grudge's advice, but remember I alledge that Grudge's method DOESNT work....I dont doubt Grudge did it, but I CANT duplicate it///so you will have to figure out your own there and it will surely take you more then 1 campeign
Also Grudge said mine didnt work for him so were even there LOL......which brings me back to you will surely have to fiqure out your own LOL.....and I am sure wiil take multiple campeigns.

[GrudgeBringer]

Pepe's right...

We both had the same end result on normal setting (taking Washinton in the first 25 turns or so) breaking the union morale and 'winning' the game (on paper....we both kept on playing after that and the union does keep trying I must admit. The best I ever did was get the union morale down to 2.).

However, on hard my strategy just will not work and I treied pepe's and it doesn't work for me.

I would suggest for your first long campaign that you use most of the normal settings.

The only one you MIGHT change is the one that takes away having to supply your Blockade runners (but you only get 75% of the war supplies you would normally get).

There is SO much to remember that using that will be just one less thing you will go..."oooooh noooo I forgot about my ships and they are gone due to lack of supply.

You can read all the AAR's in the world but past the first few turns ita all on you and THATS what makes this game an addicting game.

Good Luck!!

[pepe4158]

say Turbo...let us know how you did your very first campeign ok, if I was a betting man Id take Athena versus you very first game, but I seem to be losing EVERY odds I ever do lately, even at 4:1 in my favor

[Turbo823]

Hi Pepe,

Starting my new campaign in about 4 hours. There were problems with the first beta patch but before I could blink my eyes Pocus posted a fix.