game advice for CSA (post em)

[Duie1]

First off good game .


1. Use what you have not what you want .manpower as the CSA is the limiting factor and IMO is better spent reinforcing the units you already have .Before doing anything else ,visit the reserve window and make sure those arnt red 0s

2. it took half a game for me to see this one (DOH!!!)when buying BDE's look at the bottom of the screen, it will show what is in that unit .this helps when putting those DIV together {11 inf 4art 1 cav 1sharp} .

3.CAV= RECON .in real life , there isn't much that could strike the fear of God into a man as much as 20 + horses coming at one full charge .Often men would turn tale for the hills ........ BUT this aint real life

4. History is your best guideline to what you should and shouldnt do.

[MarkCSA]

This may sound strange, but the entire war can be won in the West. Make sure you keep the yankee out of MO, KY, TX, LA and AR and you will be able to build up a force that should be able to withstand any attacks.

In the East, just dig in WW1 style and keep a closed front.

Eventually you will win (either by survival or the Union 'giving up') I count survival as a win.

[GrudgeBringer]

I have been playing for about 5 weeks (almost non-stop I might add).

I just won my third game in a row all on normal settings....turn 34 (game 1) Turn 26 (Game 2) Turn 17 (game 3).

All I did was milita the heck out of everything, form 2 Corps in the east.

One under Jackson with Mcgruder, Huger, and Longstreet. (full perfect divisions and 4 extra art) Jackson and his boys are sent to richmond when freed up.

One under Joe Johnston with Bee, Edwards? (the other Division commander that comes with Johnston), Bohnham, and the Artillery guy that arrives in richmond a little after the game starts.

Agian perfect Divisions and 4 extra art.

(I DO proiect Mo, Tex, Ark, KY ect in the meantime)

Jackson takes Alexandria (rests a turn) and then you have Johnston assault Harpers Ferry (you have already let the Union take it back after the first turn).

for some reason Athena (AI) moves toward Harpers Ferry, Jackson Assauts Washington next turn....Game over

But I continue to play on for another 30 turns usually till I get bored.

Guess its time to kick it up a level.

Because I KNOW if I play PBEM i am in for a WHOOPIN!!!

Not bragging, just kind of dissapointed after taking SO much time to learn all this.

[arsan]

If you know how to trick the Ai to lose the game by turn 17 and then you win and get no fun out of it... well the solution is easy IMHO... don't do the trick!
That you can win with that simple gamey trick does not mean you HAVE to do it
All Ai's can be tricked. Athena is not one of the worst that's for certain but still could use some improvements. But then even it she is improved, sooner or later you will find another trick for easily winning her if you look for it.
But i use to have much more fun from any game trying to not trick the Ai's that looking for an easy gamey win.
Just my 2 cents
Regards

[GrudgeBringer]

I agree 100%, I just did it 3 times to see if the AI would ALWAYS react the same.

In some other games if you save and reload it will react in a different manner.

As I said I will have to kick it up a notch.

I can do one of two things as I see it...

I can kick it up a notch and TRY and do the same thing or I can try and find another way to win.

I understand about gamey tricks as I have been playing and modifying rules to make things more even for 40 years.

And agianst a Human opponent I believe that rules SHOULD be modified to make things fair.

The other side of me says that a game is just that...a game.

When I play No-Limit Poker (every day) at the Casino, THEN its not a game.

I enjoy trying to find the chinks in the armour of every game or player I play agianst whether it be Chess or AACW.

I take what the game gives me and use it to overcome the problems the AI will present.

If I come to the point that there is no challenge anymore, the game goes on the shelf and I go to the next one.

However, this game is pretty intricate and it took me 5 weeks to find a way to defeat it every time.

I'm sure that it isn't the ONLY way to beat it and I'm POSITIVE when I put it on a harder level new problems will be presented that will make my strategy ineffective.

after the next couple of levels I will try the hardest level.....a human.

And i'm sure I will take my lumps there also, but at least when I yell at the computer it will be agianst some PERSON beating me and not a machine for a change!!!

I do appreciate your input AND all the help you have given me in the first stages of the learning curve that seems SOOOO impossible when you first dive in!!!

[stars&bars]

Once you have learned the basics of the game. Playing the Normal setting is a piece of cake, and no challange really, as they let you build your froces up pretty much, and wait for you to attack most cases. I play on the Hard setting now, and the first time i played it on that level, i lost my first ever campaign. The reason why, was that I was so used to the freedom of playing on normal, i was over confident, and divided my forces. As such the Union rolled over Richmond with superior numbers(lesson learned).


I would agree with the top post by Duei1 when playing as CSA. On hard difficulty, you shouldnt try to do too much at once. Just combine your units at Richmond with the Army of the Potomac, and 2 Core to start. Replenish what you have, repel the Union at Richmond, hold your lines, and build up your force in the East(VA) as priority one. When you have the luxury to do so, I would reccomend taking Fort Monroe, as this allows good movement for shipping, and stops the Union from landing froces easily.

Then look North(TN,KY) and hold Island10-Fort Henry&Donalsen and Nashville. Let the Union attack a Kentucky town(usally 3-4 turns or so in), so that state goes against the Union, loyalty wise. Then with Polk & some of the forces from Charleston, take Paducha to strenghten your front Northern line.

Texas is a big threat, as the Union will often throw their weight around there from time to time. You can hold Texas by making sure you recap the cities they take. In the meantime, you want to be building up a Division under Sibley, while Waite can soft cap the Indian towns with minimal force, when set to avoid conflict.

On the hard difficulty, the Union usally land some Divisions at either New Orleans or Chaleston via the forts they hold on the coast. Be sure to also slowly build up a Division at Charleston to repel and protect your underbelly.

Thats the basic way I am playing at the moment. My goals are usally to Hold the Northern lines, skirmish and hold Texas, make sure the Union Divisions landing in the South dont gain momentum, and push them back into the sea. Finally and most important goal, build up my main Army in the East at Richmond, and try to retake Virginia!

[mlp071]

You can end up not having any manpower, WS or money problems with CSA at all, playing with Normal difficulty.

I just finished my first ever April campaign and by June '62 I had 100 line infantry regiments(275 of them) more then Union, and thats a just Line infantry(i compared it after game was over).

At same time i still had 700k of money, 600 of conscripts and 600 WS in my bank with 7% inflation.With some planing thats very achievable on Normal.

What i did was, held the line Jefferson City-Rolla- Padukah- Clarksville- Bowling Green, and gradually built 4 Corps Army in TN(AS Johnston) and 1 Corps Army(J.Johnston) in Rolla.Have , at least, 1 supply wagon per division in each corps.

- Take Grafton, WV with Huger, and destroy RR and Depot there, no more Union raids from that side. In addition , you can get Huger killed as a bonus

- Be sure that Prestonburg is strong enough( 2-3 Militias will do it) to hold off any Union attacks , otherwise they can sneak into your backyard from there.

- Mass build AoP into 5 corps (2 divisions each)with cannons, cannons and cannons (4 per division) in VA, then attack Alexandria-Washington, with help of every single fighting ship, starting ones from VA, that you have there.

- Keep 2x 1/2 size divisions on Atlantic and Gulf side to prevent any possible Union landings, as soon you can afford them, with 1 full division in TX.Destroy Creek and Cherokee villages , so Union can't resupply there. That solves Union raiding issues there.

- Always had 6-10 raiders(1 cav unit, partisans , etc) wrecking RR and taking Union cities deep in their territory (i played with Hardcore attrition).Be sure to give them time to replenish in occupied city occasionally.When that city rebels back to Union it creates Militia and that along with RR repairs costs ,cuts down their recruiting ability by a lot.

-Once , when you take FT. Monroe(Marines are your friends there), whole possible Union amphibious invasion thing is over with.You need to wait till Butler is gone from Fort though, then attack it.

At same time, i tend to invest into Industrializations of as many States i could in turn. Never kept them more then 1 turn , but usually it was 4-6+ states at same turn.Usually would be around March/April and Sept/Oct when i did that.If i wasn't upgrading that , i was investing into Rail and River improvements.

I only built Reinforcements twice a year, and rest of the time i was covering replacements and small amount of militia(if i needed to cover some city).

Your growth per turn in Money , Man and WS is more then sufficient to cover what you need in between those 6 months.

You can do it with less troops , but i like to build things

[MkollCSA]

Okay guys i need some help...i have only been playing for about a week (CSA) so i dont think i still have all the basic's down firmly yet. I read somewhere in the book where you can transfer regiments to other units to re-enforce them but then i also read that the Brigade is the lowest level of unit that can be manipulated...Now on to the tactical situation (which is limited to the eastern theater because i just try and hold THe western cities i have) My strategy thus far has been pretty sound in my point of view....I send the first Corps i am able to put together from The Army of the Potomac to Fredricsburg To hold off any attempt by the Union to cross the Rappahannock There and threaten Richmond...This force's the Union to travel further down to cross at Tappahannock (which they never seem to attempt) then with my forces in the Shannondoa Valley hold off attempts by the Union to circle around and threaten Petersburg and Richmond...my problem is as follows.....Almost even before i can my forces unlocked to start delpoying them Mcdowell Hits Johnston, He hit me with 36k men 7k horse and 400 arty...i could only throw 6k men 2k horses and 4 arty back at them....i won a tactical victory but still had to withdraw then McDowell just followed up his minor setback and persued my army until my back was against the wall and had to make a stand where i was all out destroyed...now i tried moving my Corps in Fredricsburg to support but this opens myself up to invasion through there...either way i seem doomed....i dont see how that many troops can be rasied in such a sort time and if they start with that many how am i supposed to stop such a huge army when i can barely throw 7k troops into the mix....any idea's on what i can do or what i might be doing wrong? i cant even get started before i am wiped out.

[Jabberwock]

Okay guys i need some help...i have only been playing for about a week (CSA) so i dont think i still have all the basic's down firmly yet. I read somewhere in the book where you can transfer regiments to other units to re-enforce them but then i also read that the Brigade is the lowest level of unit that can be manipulated...Now on to the tactical situation (which is limited to the eastern theater because i just try and hold THe western cities i have) My strategy thus far has been pretty sound in my point of view....I send the first Corps i am able to put together from The Army of the Potomac to Fredricsburg To hold off any attempt by the Union to cross the Rappahannock There and threaten Richmond...This force's the Union to travel further down to cross at Tappahannock (which they never seem to attempt) then with my forces in the Shannondoa Valley hold off attempts by the Union to circle around and threaten Petersburg and Richmond...my problem is as follows.....Almost even before i can my forces unlocked to start delpoying them Mcdowell Hits Johnston, He hit me with 36k men 7k horse and 400 arty...i could only throw 6k men 2k horses and 4 arty back at them....i won a tactical victory but still had to withdraw then McDowell just followed up his minor setback and persued my army until my back was against the wall and had to make a stand where i was all out destroyed...now i tried moving my Corps in Fredricsburg to support but this opens myself up to invasion through there...either way i seem doomed....i dont see how that many troops can be rasied in such a sort time and if they start with that many how am i supposed to stop such a huge army when i can barely throw 7k troops into the mix....any idea's on what i can do or what i might be doing wrong? i cant even get started before i am wiped out.

In regards to the first point, I think you are speaking of transfering brigade-sized units between divisions. You probably don't have any divisions yet. Some units are only one regiment in size; the ones that are multiple regiments are brigades.

You may be having a problem with replacements. I suspect that is the case from the numbers you give. Many of your units start out understrength. If you go to the ledger and open the replacements drawer, you have the possibility to buy troops to fill out these units. I avoid the word reinforcements here, because that is used in this game to refer to buying entirely new units.

In regards to the second, I believe the key here is to send the first available cavalry unit (I use the one from MacGruder's force) to cut the Union-controlled rail lines between Alexandria and Winchester. The fighting effectiveness of an army is very different after a long march, than after a short train ride and a short march. The cavalry may be able to also cut the rail in Frederick, MD, and escape.

Also, it is generally sufficient to put a brigade or two in Fredericksburg, and the rest of that force either in Manassas, or a supporting position closer to Winchester. If the Union troops march through Stafford to take Fredericksburg, and then on towards Richmond, circle around behind, cut off their supplies, and hit them after they have worn themselves out.

[MkollCSA]

THanks for the advice...i am happy to say it worked and i am into 1862 so far...as soon as i could i got some cav. north of manassas and just started cutting railroad lines...alas they werent able to survive for long but there sacrafice gave me the edge i needed to survive, i have one corps (4 div. of nearly perfect size 10 inf 4 arty 2 cav 1 ss, i have found it difficult to form the 11 inf 4 arty 1 cav 1 ss i have heard works great, but never the less i am up to around 1500 pwr with my current set) north of the Rappahannock defending around Manassas and one Corps in the Fredricksburg region to provide support. My army of the Shannondoa is doing well...they have firm control of winchester and even tho i can only muster 20k troops there so far they are so well entrenched (lvl 5) that they have won about 7 battles against 2 Army's with over 40k troops and they dont look like there gonna break any time soon. The West looks better for me as well..i sent S.Watie and his comanche warriors on a killing spree and destoryed all the Indian Villages that the Union uses to resuply themselves when they come down and harrass me. and my newly formed army of Tenn. is building up it's forces to go on an offensive hopefully in mid 1862. I was also able to capture Norkfolk and Fort Monroe to secure the shipping lanes around VA to protect myself from Anhib. Assault. it may not be great but for me i am still alive so thats good for me. Thanks for the help

[daddytorgo]

Just had my first real taste of success in the game I started on Friday and played nonstop all weekend. I'm at work and not in front of it so I can't give specific troop levels and stuff, but I can say this:

CSA - Winter 1862 / Spring 1863

At this point I have:
-Conquered Bowling Greene
-Conquered St. Louis!
-Sent a raiding infantry division 3/4 of the way to Chicago before it ran out of supplies and was destroyed (just on a lark)
-Conquered Harper's Ferry
-Conquered Alexandria

AND

-Conquered Washington D.C. and held it (Marse Robert strikes again!!)

Lee, Jackson, Longstreet and Johnson dominate the Eastern theater, keeping the Union pinned back (each with a stack of at least 1000, Lee with ~1800). Beauregard is sitting in Richmond on ~600 power as the "home guard." I have a stack of ~400 power cavalry under Stuart ready to cause trouble. Albert Sydney is firmly in control in KY + TN, and Braxton Bragg (nominally in control in MO although actual control has been given to the corps commander whose name I forget, and Bragg just sits in Rollo trying not to poison things) hold St. Louis firmly.

I can smell victory!! And I wonder where the Union moved their capital too? And if Lincoln managed to get out through the seige? I imagine him as my prisioner...

[GShock]

It would help if you said the difficulty level, aggression level and FOW level you used

[pepe4158]

Well personally I think Grudge is really on the best track that an early southern victory can be achieved by, 'tricking' the AI n hammering Washington when he takes the bait running after a lightly defended Winchester n Harpers.

Its the classical gaming problem that an AI just doesnt see the big picture. Marks scenario of fighting an opponent trench war style that has oddels more resources just doesnt appeal to me

On normal setting everywhere, in my best southern side game, I pulled one over on the AI completly by a 2 prong approach of taking Louisville n cutting the north in 2 with raids n the clincher was sending Jackson with all my forces in the east thru the by pass of Baltimore (never bothered with the Alexandria approach) to hit Washington from the rear why the AI ran off to reclaim Winchester n Harpers I left as decoys...adding that I was losing a lot of key areas why doing these two objectives but the trade off was worth it.
Yeah I feltched my victory but what the he$$ durn A"I's deserve it for being so narrow-minded

You want more challenge you really gotta play human vs human IMO, dont expect me if you play me e-mail or whatever to allow a fletched victory like Grudge's plan (works against AI) ....I prefer in Multi-player the north cuz waiting to be killed as the south just dosent seem that fun IMO.....put your little militas down ill eventually blow-em apart lol

Cuz n human vs human,you can have your victories in the east why i fortify the heck outta Washington, my armies planted n wont move lol till i have increased fortifications (you cant have that 1 I learned the hard way there ill tell ya early playing an agressive AI) The player as the north if he isnt, 'too lame; will always win this game by eventually taking the middle south areas and using the, 'Annaconda plan.'

Grudges plan wont work against a human tho Im pretty sure, cuz in the west you will die from an onslaught of men n cannons Im sending from the east...it will take a little time to get there but when it does you wont hold.

Sure I could play on harder settings this game on harder settings....but I never really liked that in theory for any wargame. Harder should be the computer plays better (no AI ever has yet to achieve this, Warlords tried years ago n a dismal failure, classic gaming prob)....not his units are mega-stronger or he gets hordes more then you do....stupid concepts IMO...you want more challenge you need to play human vs human in any type wargame

[Brochgale]

Playing on harder settings is a whole lot more interesting. Play easier settings to learn game and then move on as fast as possible to harder settings with no foreign intervention - Playing CSA is a lot more fun - more of a challange?

[pepe4158]

Yeah Broch I like south side in my own games versus the AI.....put personally prefer north in any PvP cuz waiting to die isnt apealling to me
Well as I mentioned tho putting any game on a harder setting is just plane lame IMO, the game should be hard enough on any normal setting and that is the true test of whether the game was designed well IMO.

This AI tends to be a little too over-aggresive in this game for its own good which is a classic wargaming design mistake, the worse I ever saw (not too digress too much I hope) was an old WWII game called CoS old wargamers may remember (great game a classic) where whole armies could be cut of from supply cuz n destroyed easilycuz the AI was just too aggresive.

This AI borders on that and giving it mega-strong units or tons more isnt the answer...hmmm wonder about this tho, a combination of harder setting and less aggressive AI may be the answer?....think Ill try it.

[pepe4158]

Then look North(TN,KY) and hold Island10-Fort Henry&Donalsen and Nashville.

Yeah if your gona grunt it out ya gotta hold Henry I think....when I play as the north getting Henry to free up my ship movement is my #1 priorty as being bombed each time I pass is a prob.
I have a job where I travel lots and sometimes go by there on I-40 (the landing point Grant used) When I first went by there I wondered why Grant would bother with that wilderness but playing the game has made me understand its key significance that Grant really knew his stuff n making that a key objective early.

Ohhh yeah I reduce the fort to (as the north player) so it isnt a thorn in my back n can push again south as this isnt a key place to hold for the north once you get the batteries outta there.......Island 10 isnt that big a deal IMO as you still have other batteries elswhere to protect the MS. river but only Donalsen to protect that other stretch of river (when playing the south) you cant protect everywhere as the south face it, between holding Nashville n island 10 you better hold Nashville (and that free depot you get to start with there )
If you started splliting your forces to cover all of them say bye to everything against me! ......where if you fortify one n hold it Id be burying blue soldiers.

[pepe4158]

It would help if you said the difficulty level, aggression level and FOW level you used

He's gotta be on mega easy IMO....these guys coming on thinking they will hold everything are killing me

Look im not trying to flame anyone but face it as the south your resources are severly strained n I would slaughter any of you in an even matched PvP game where you think as the south your gonna hold everything. Many of you are trying to pick too many key areas n I would make you pay for that Im sure with your limited forces.

You gotta keep it simple n hold just a small few key areas no matter what n sacrifice the rest....thats just the facts or you will lose everything quickly in an even matched PvP for sure. Personally I think your ability to play this game is ONLY tested in PvP not slaughtering a short sided AI like Athena the over-agressive idiot LOL (sorry Arsan just joking lol)

[Jabberwock]

Pepe - you seem like a nice guy ... in a psychotic sort of way. You remind me of myself about 9 months back. I don't know why you keep inviting an experience that could possibly cause permanent damage to your psyche and self-esteem. I have several other items on my agenda right now, but if you can handle a slow-paced game (maybe 2 or 3 turns a week), then I'm your Huckleberry. PM me if interested.

[pepe4158]

Your on some time there Jabber....just testing some new theories first ok against Athena so give me a week k?....love a good challeng lol

[Jabberwock]

Sounds good.

[pepe4158]

Pepe - you seem like a nice guy ... in a psychotic sort of way. You remind me of myself about 9 months back. I don't know why you keep inviting an experience that could possibly cause permanent damage to your psyche and self-esteem. I have several other items on my agenda right now, but if you can handle a slow-paced game (maybe 2 or 3 turns a week), then I'm your Huckleberry. PM me if interested.

Well been psycho-analyzed here big-time now....remember I'm a type 3 personality too I was told by Admn!
As far as the risk to my psyche damage ...hmm I live dangerously so quess ill have to risk it.
Oh yeah Jabber do you want to play random Gen or fixed historically?

[Jabberwock]

Check your email.

[pepe4158]

Hmmm try again Jabber ....didnt go thru for some reason?

[Jabberwock]

resent by PM

[Brochgale]

On Hard settings - give AI more time to make moves - seems to work better. Less aggression though does not seem to do much - moves as crazy as on High aggression?
I never play with foreign intervention - there was none in the real war so I dont entertian any in games I play.
I got my ass kicked first time around on hard settings. Losing Charleston was the start of the fall. By passing coastal defenses was most sneaky move?After I had pulled troops out of SC to help in Virginia where I was under some pressures - Richmond being beseiged.
I look forward to my next game to see what AI does to me?

[pepe4158]

Still Broch...the key to winning for the south is a quick victory against Washington on a normal level, no other strategy compares to that IMO (Athena bowled over Washington in my first Union game ever and I was determined to pay her back playing as the confeds lol)

No other approach to this game compares n really I think (well hate to say it cuz might pi$$ Raf off lol) a kind of flaw in the design) I mean even if the south had managed to capture Washington early (talked to a history Prof about this once at Cal State) it would have NOT ended the war and early on would have made the north even more determined to fight harder ..NOT the opposite

Lincoln after the initial chaos would have just set up shop elsewhere and the northern congressmen would be screaming for pay-back....aquating any other response would be analogous to the US wanting to quit the war after pearl harbor loss of the pacific fleet.

The REAL problem of the war was latter as it drug on, and the north using conscripted ...(ummm recruits) from the fresh immigrant pools lol....Lee really screewd up...all he had to do was sit there and wait for the riots to consume the North why the main army was chasing him ......the number one job of the army returning from Gettysburg was quell riots against forced conscription.

But to the problem at hand, how to trick the dimwitted Athena into surrendering Washington....I will give you my exact approach that works.
Early on ONLY this works on normal settings (and You can win as early as July)

I dont doubt Grudges approach works, but fo some reason doesnt work for me, Athena doesnt seem stupid enough not to miss the threat when you take Alexandria VA (shes Programmed to respond to such threats.....n A. either Grudge is full of it lol, or B. I am def missing something in his plan n probably the latter.

The exact path to victory is giving Jackson's corp the bulk of your troops and leaving the main army to just slow down n impead Athena as she runs off to quickly reclaim any progress you make (SHES PROGRAMMED THAT WAY lol...n path exact plan I will share)

N try to cut your OWN rails to slow her down as she rushes to catch you cuz if she does catch you with the bulk of her forces the plans eXed

I use the approach that will arise the least suspecion in her lil dimwitted aggressive approach lol....after you get Harpers n she rushes to reclaim it (get outta there fast!)

Ok ...heres the plan Fredrick City--Westminster,Carrol MD---Montgomery,MD....n of course bang into Washington. (oh yeah cut as much of that rail as you can ahead if time so she doesnt blunder into you by accident further complicating things ...hmm but not too soon cuz she will run off to fix it, hard to get the balance right lil luck needed actually)

You can win that battle on normal (I hate other setting easier or harder myself ) n this doesnt raise her suspecion what your up to.....any human would say OMG thats Jackson's Corp. parked outside Washington lol
...but since its really a low priorty area she generally ignores it unless by blind luck she stumbles into you (plan botched time to grunt or reload ).

I dont doubt Grudges plan works for Grudge, but either Im def missing something in it or its unworkable, everytime I play Athena says OMG he took Alexandria n rushes to reclaim it hence I lose.

IMO unless you take Washington you will die under an onlaught of blue...n waiting to die in a game never imppressed me lol...others talk about it here but only the pepster and Grudge gave you details lol....n I dont see how Grudge got his plan to work, but I dont doubt him, just saying Im missing something or he didnt revile all his secrets lol

[Rafiki]

Just make sure that criticism is presented constructively and that other forumites are treated respectfully, and you'll find me hard to "pi$$ off"

[pepe4158]

Just make sure that criticism is presented constructively and that other forumites are treated respectfully, and you'll find me hard to "pi$$ off"

Hee-hee ....fair enough

[Rafiki]

[Jagger]

Look im not trying to flame anyone but face it as the south your resources are severly strained n I would slaughter any of you in an even matched PvP game where you think as the south your gonna hold everything. Many of you are trying to pick too many key areas n I would make you pay for that Im sure with your limited forces.

Actually the CSA resources are not severly strained. Unless the standard scenario has been revised, the Union only has a 1.4-1 manpower ratio advantage. Considering the power of defense, the CSA is well set for defense.

Now if you bump up the power of offense and increase the manpower ratio to 2-1, then you have a challenge for the CSA.