Timing your attack

[Johnny Reb]

Need some advice from my fellow soldiers. I've found a lot of answers to my questions by using the search engine but I can't seem to find this one, probably because I don't know what to search for. So here it is, it's an easy one.

You feel you have a superior force and decide to attack the enemy. However, it takes your men 10 or 12 days to reach the enemy's region, and therefore not many days left for the battlefield.

1) Are you better off to "stage" in an adjacent region and wait until the next turn to attack when you will have 13 or 14 days to battle?

2) Are casualties directly affected by days of battle?

3) Is there an attack cutoff point y'all use? For example, "I never attack after the 12th day".

Thanks,
Johnny

[Jim-NC]

In my experience, most battles are over in 1 day, rarely does a battle go longer than 3 days (I have seen a few). So having a few days left is not a problem. Unless you have long battle delay (in which case, you may not fight that turn).


Personally,
As for staging 1 area over, that can tip off your enemy to your intentions. So I try not to (keeps em guessing).

Casualties are not specifically tied to days of battle, but the longer a battle the more hits each side takes/receives. (think of Antietam and Gettysburg - Antietam was the bloodiest single day, but Gettysburg was the bloodiest 3 days)

I attack whenever I can (you never know when it will be critical to attack on day 14). For example, in the mud, it might take 14 days to move into a region. Or, for example, if you are attempting to steal a march on your enemy to capture a lightly defended depot, you may want to show up on day 14, and not stage next to the region so they can blow the depot next turn or rush in reinforcements via rail.

[George McClellan]

I'm only helping cause I'm bored.
I say either:
1) go directly to the battle
2) Wait in another region
or 3) Siege!
Godspeed,
George McClellan

[caranorn]

Staging one region from the expected battle will have soem advantages related to cohesion. You will be marching fewer days this turn, therefore losing less cohesion and recovering more. If your force marched for 14 days to engage battle on the 15th it might be in such bad shape that it will auto-retreat. If your entire march is in territory you have sufficient control over, you could also march in defensive posture which is even more efficient when it comes to preserving cohesion (I would not march in passive as you never know your enemy's moves and you might end up repulsed by a minor force)...

And yes, your step by step movement coudl alert your enemy. Worse, you could have a commander with low strategic ratings who will be inactive for the next several turns. So if the situation warrants it you should try and go for the immediate attack. But if you have reliable commanders, good weather and some time you should preserve cohesion. By the way, alerting the enemy might be useful too, imagine your target is well fortified (level 5+ trenches, behind a river etc.), an outright attack (with low cohesion) could be very costly and likely lead to defeat, on the other hand delaying that one turn might lead to the enemy withdrawing from the fortifications (as your force might seem more imitating to him than it actually is) and you can then catch them on the move...

[Ethan]

Need some advice from my fellow soldiers. I've found a lot of answers to my questions by using the search engine but I can't seem to find this one, probably because I don't know what to search for. So here it is, it's an easy one.

You feel you have a superior force and decide to attack the enemy. However, it takes your men 10 or 12 days to reach the enemy's region, and therefore not many days left for the battlefield.

1) Are you better off to "stage" in an adjacent region and wait until the next turn to attack when you will have 13 or 14 days to battle?

2) Are casualties directly affected by days of battle?

3) Is there an attack cutoff point y'all use? For example, "I never attack after the 12th day".

Thanks,
Johnny

Hi Johnny!

To start, I'll let you answer yourself to your third question, after I give you my point of view on the two previous.

Well, I think in regard to a combat there are several factors you should consider before starting to attack. The cohesion is vital in the battle. You have to take into account that as the days go up to the battlefield your men lose some cohesion per day, depending on the terrain through which they move, National Morale, climate, if they travel by foot, by ship or train, the experience of your troops, etcetera. In addition, if your troops take a long time coming, the enemy will be reinforced sufficiently. I prefer my men arrive to the battle in 3-5 days at most, if possible. In your case, I would wait other moment to attack.

As Caranorn said, the enemy can even run away if your troops are very numerous and the enemy can "smell" an attack from you

Regarding to your second question, Jim is right in saying that the longer a battle, the more casualties each side receives. But not by a rule of the game, but by the logic.

Excuse me if I have written too.

Good luck in your play and have fun!

Regards!

[Johnny Reb]

I appreciate your insight fellas. It does give me some interesting thoughts to consider.

Oh, and George...thanks for the autograph!

[LSSpam]

1) Are you better off to "stage" in an adjacent region and wait until the next turn to attack when you will have 13 or 14 days to battle?

2) Are casualties directly affected by days of battle?

3) Is there an attack cutoff point y'all use? For example, "I never attack after the 12th day".

Thanks,
Johnny

This is actually an entirely historical problem. McClellan, for instance, would never attack unless things were "just so", sitting a region away for 2 weeks making preparations, regaining cohesion, etc. Stonewall on the other hand would happily force march his men to fight on the next day if he felt the opportunity warranted it.

As for advice, that's what it comes down too. There are no hard and fast rules. It's a "if the opportunity warrants it". Trying to smash a garrison before the opposing army notices it's dangling and reinforces or rescues? Hit an isolated corp before the opposing side recombines? Escape a cleverly sprung but aggressive trap attacking in the same process as retreating? Probably a good idea.

But there's nothing wrong with settling into a chess piece match if you have the overall theater advantage and can painlessly, without big loss, out-maneuver your opponent from a strong position.


PS I regularly see 2 and 3 day battles. The program cuts them up into individual "battles", like you get a battle report each day, but it's still consecutive days, and so I consider it one "battle" and a common occurrence.


I imagine if Gettysburg was done on this system, Lee would have "won" Day 1 in terms of the battle report, "stalemated" Day 2, and "lost" Day 3, resulting in his withdraw.

[George McClellan]

McClellan, for instance, would never attack unless things were "just so", sitting a region away for 2 weeks making preparations, regaining cohesion, etc.

For the sake of my sanity, I will not answer that.

[LSSpam]

For the sake of my sanity, I will not answer that.

McClellan arrives at Antietam on Day 15 (September 15th).

Player sets McClellan's stance to Attack / All - Out

McClellan fails to committ to battle on Day 1 the next turn.
Jackson arrives.
McClellan commits.
AP Hill joins the battle.
Stalemate Day 2.
Due to low cohesion McClellan fails to engage the enemy Day 3.
Due to low cohesion McClellan fails to engage the enemy Day 4.
RE Lee has successfully evaded the enemy Day 4 and retreated.


Close examination of McClellan's army for the Early October orders phase reveals 2 full corps, untouched and with perfect cohesion (Franklin and Sykes).

[George McClellan]

McClellan arrives at Antietam on Day 15 (September 15th).

Player sets McClellan's stance to Attack / All - Out

McClellan fails to committ to battle on Day 1 the next turn.
Jackson arrives.
McClellan commits.
AP Hill joins the battle.
Stalemate Day 2.
Due to low cohesion McClellan fails to engage the enemy Day 3.
Due to low cohesion McClellan fails to engage the enemy Day 4.
RE Lee has successfully evaded the enemy Day 4 and retreated.


Close examination of McClellan's army for the Early October orders phase reveals 2 full corps, untouched and with perfect cohesion (Franklin and Sykes).

McClellan's Command arrives in Richmond.
McClellan's Command is commited to LSSpam's Command in region Richmond, VA at Day 1
[color="Red"]Sir, the enemy Garrison has surrendered at Day 1!
Your control of Richmond, VA has increased to 100% at Day 1.[/color]
Supply (NY) has arrived in Charleston, SC at Day 14.
Supply (NY) is commited against Army of The Tennessee in Charleston, SC at Day 1.
[color="Red"]New Units raised in the Various States[/color]
[color="red"]We have won a battle against Confederate States of America (100 Morale Points Gained)![/color]
[color="red"]Sir, we have captured Charleston in region Charleston, SC[/color][color="red"]Jefferson Davis Surrenders[/color]
[color="red"]Brigadier Gen. LSSpam is tortured and hanged[/color]
[color="red"]Sir, the war is won! As a result, our Morale Points are OVER 9000!!!![/color]
[color="red"]Gen. George McClellan is recognized as a national hero and recieves the Medal of Honor.[/color]
[color="red"]George McClellan will be your bodyguard at Ford's Theatre.
[/color]
Beat that.

[Johnny Reb]

For the sake of my sanity, I will not answer that.

George my friend, your forces may be arriving too late for that battle.
Especially after reading this in your following post: [color="Red"]"Brigadier Gen. LSSpam is tortured and hanged".[/color]

I suggest you and LSSpam start an AAR. Y'all are off to a great start.

[George McClellan]

George my friend, your forces may be arriving too late for that battle.
Especially after reading this in your following post: [color="Red"]"Brigadier Gen. LSSpam is tortured and hanged".[/color]

I suggest you and LSSpam start an AAR. Y'all are off to a great start.

Why thank you, Johnny! http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?p=199403#post199403

[Johnny Reb]

Wheeeeeeew doggie! Now we're gonna see somethin'.

I'm not gonna touch that thread with a 10-foot pole! I'm digging a trench and staying out of y'all's way.
I will however be listening to the cannon fire in the distance. Good luck boys!!!

[LSSpam]

I'd love to play a game. I've currently got Struggle for the Vast Future installed but I can scrub that pretty easily. Play with 1.16?

[Johnny Reb]

McClellan, for instance, would never attack unless things were "just so", sitting a region away for 2 weeks making preparations, regaining cohesion, etc.

Be patient LSSpam, like you stated, maybe McClellan is making preparations, waiting for things to be "just so".
I am sure when he does attack, we will all know it!

[George McClellan]

[CENTER]NEW YORK HERALD
THE THREAD HAS BEEN CHANGED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT[/CENTER]

[CENTER]http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=20309
Currently Recruiting at:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/member.php?u=8545[/CENTER]

[GraniteStater]

Before we entered the Total Derailment Zone, this thread was informative. I'm still learning stuff every time I play or read good threads.

Don't get me wrong. Derail does not mean Not Funny. Funny is good. Pertinent and Funny is ideal, but I don't require the Ideal, although I strive for it.

Like:

George McClellan had second thoughts about his attack.
George McClellan had thoughts about his second thoughts.
George McClellan had the opposing commander's Big Plan given to him!
George McClellan made sure everybody's coat was buttoned before moving out.
George McClellan arrives at Sharpsburg.
George McClellan decides to play fair and attack piecemeal.
R E Lee thanks George McClellan for the sportsmanship.
R E Lee withdraws, wondering how the heck he lives to talk about facing 2.25 - 1 odds on very indefensible ground with his back to a major river.

Now, that's funny, even if I say so myself.

*****

To be fair to General Doesn't Quite Get It, it wasn't his fault that they didn't have a modern command structure. Nowadays, we have senior officers do what they're good at and don't expect Patton to train & feed Third Army while it's hard chargin' 'cross the Rhine. Combat leaders mess with the Bad Guys - trainers train. Lil' Mac was an excellent trainer and, regardless of his battlefield faults, bequeathed an excellent tool to his successors. McClellan made the Army of the Potomac into an army - not entirely his fault that he didn't know how to use his creation to best advantage.

[George McClellan]

Before we entered the Total Derailment Zone, this thread was informative. I'm still learning stuff every time I play or read good threads.

Don't get me wrong. Derail does not mean Not Funny. Funny is good. Pertinent and Funny is ideal, but I don't require the Ideal, although I strive for it.

Like:

George McClellan had second thoughts about his attack.
George McClellan had thoughts about his second thoughts.
George McClellan had the opposing commander's Big Plan given to him!
George McClellan made sure everybody's coat was buttoned before moving out.
George McClellan arrives at Sharpsburg.
George McClellan decides to play fair and attack piecemeal.
R E Lee thanks George McClellan for the sportsmanship.
R E Lee withdraws, wondering how the heck he lives to talk about facing 2.25 - 1 odds on very indefensible ground with his back to a major river.

Now, that's funny, even if I say so myself.

*****

To be fair to General Doesn't Quite Get It, it wasn't his fault that they didn't have a modern command structure. Nowadays, we have senior officers do what they're good at and don't expect Patton to train & feed Third Army while it's hard chargin' 'cross the Rhine. Combat leaders mess with the Bad Guys - trainers train. Lil' Mac was an excellent trainer and, regardless of his battlefield faults, bequeathed an excellent tool to his successors. McClellan made the Army of the Potomac into an army - not entirely his fault that he didn't know how to use his creation to best advantage.

[LEFT]Ahem...

[/LEFT]
[CENTER]COMEDY FAIL!!! [/CENTER]

[Johnny Reb]

Before we entered the Total Derailment Zone, this thread was informative.

I thought so too.
But unfortunately the train has jumped the tracks, flipped over twice, gone off the cliff, and is now falling into the valley of death.

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

I thought so too.
But unfortunately the train has jumped the tracks, flipped over twice, gone off the cliff, and is now falling into the valley of death.

Don't forget about the simultaneous plane crash, earthquake, and gas leak all converging with the train to one point.

[ATTACH]14590[/ATTACH]

Farmer Pocus' eye twitches...

I had to derail this thread further because it reminded me of my favorite Calvin and Hobbes comic.

[GraniteStater]

The world is a much, much grimmer place without Calvin and Hobbes. It was, without a doubt, the best. The absolute best.

[moni kerr]

So says Bill the cat.

The world is a much, much grimmer place without Calvin and Hobbes. It was, without a doubt, the best. The absolute best.

[Mickey3D]

The world is a much, much grimmer place without Calvin and Hobbes. It was, without a doubt, the best. The absolute best.

+1

[gchristie]

What the heck, this thread got completely hijacked, so I'll jump in.

My father in law teaches english at Kenyon College and had Bill Watterson as a student. Thought he was a fine student. Watterson painted a mural on the ceiling of his dorm room and I guess he skipped a lot of classes to do so. Kenyon painted over it once he left. Bet they wished they had kept it!

[Cromagnonman]

I never gave it a whole lot of thought. True, you can try to outmaneuver your enemy out of his strongholds, like Sherman on the way to Atlanta. Or just accept that you've gotta plow into 'em like Grant overland.

I tend to try to pounce on whatever opportunity I'm given. An attack on day 15 is okay if you account for marching fatigue in your victory-probability estimates. So long as there isn't likely to be another force waiting to jump you when you arrive, and as long as you have a good hope for extrication of your expedition.

[Johnny Reb]

Cromagnonman, what the heck are you talking about???
Oh, that's right... that's what this thread was about. I forgot.

Thanks for your input.

[Cromagnonman]

Then you also have to consider, when is the right time to introduce your kids to Calvin and Hobbes? Calvin's a 1st grader, so obviously not before then. But so much of it is ironic and cynical, they might not appreciate it all before they're ten or twelve.

[GraniteStater]

If you introduce your armies to Calvin & Hobbes, NM and Cohesion go up dramatically.

[Cromagnonman]

Mostly buoyed on the idea of a future without measles

[George McClellan]

If you introduce your armies to Calvin & Hobbes, NM and Cohesion go up dramatically.

...and factories are no longer making cannonballs, they're making toy tigers (that come to life!) to shoot at the unsuspecting enemy!
Oh, and the train then goes into a black hole. I'm just rambling off prophecies like an old man apy:...oh wait, aren't I 200 years old? Thats a LOT of candles.