Taking Island 10?

[kwhitehead]

I have had considerable problems taking this region so thought I would ask for some hints and why the region is so difficult to take?

The tooltip for the fortification doesn't show all that much in it but I have had large forces under Grant not even make a dent in it and end up having to retreat due to lack of supplies before reducing the region.

Is it getting some special defensive bonus for being an Island?

Will naval bombardment help? Looked like my ships always got the worst of it.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Chaplain Lovejoy]

I believe historically, it was rapidly bypassed and basically withered on the vine, but I could be wrong on that. Have fun.

From what I read in Lincoln and His Admirals, you're pretty much right.

[Jim-NC]

Generally, don't wait so long on a siege. Do it, try to get 1 breach, and then storm the fort. To get the fort to surrender from lack of supply is very! tough, as you must completely cut if off from supplies (that would include a naval blockade - in which your ships usually take a beating from the fort's guns). Also, it takes a long time to reduce a fort (after you make a breach, the garrison takes a few hits, and this can take a long time to kill it). Better to get 1 breach and storm.

As this is a swamp, and fort, you will get very limited frontage, so expect to take lot of casualties to capture it (more than normal for the size of the defender). You will also suffer quite a bit of cohesion loss from the swamp.

Hope this helps.

[Hobbes]

This post rung an old bell - but it seems for different reasons.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=5626&highlight=pope

Cheers, Chris

[kwhitehead]

I like the amphibious idea. See if I can put one together but may take a while since my units are to scattered right now.

Anyone know what it takes to create a naval blockade of Island 10? Can you go down stream out of range of its guns or do you have to be in the water region it is also in?

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[GraniteStater]

This post rung an old bell - but it seems for different reasons.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=5626&highlight=pope

Cheers, Chris

To continue in this vein:

* Re the reply in this thread - won't amphibious landing on Reelfoot Lake be a daunting task. what with landing penalties and all? Plus a buncha boats are gonna be shot all to h*ll and gone.

* I've taken #10 from the land every time. Siege, bombard with I-clads, and lotsa guys with lotsa cannons under a good general.

* Historical bechmark - by the late spring of '62, the Union held Fts. Henry and Donelson, Nashville, New Orleans, Memphis, and #10 of course. IMO, this is tough to do in AACW with either the April or July 61 starts. Now, this is off the top of my head, but IIRC, the Union seized #10 with more than a little luck. There was an Army colonel who either knew someone or had some naval engineering experience and also rounded up a buncha guys who were river types or some such. Anyhow, he cobbled together a makeshift 'fleet', took the initiative, and stole a march (or steam?) so to speak, and was able to effect a propituous surrender/abandonment of the river fort. This is difficult to model in the game, it would just about have to be an Event.

* In AACW, as I wrote above - force majeure seems to be the most effective route.

[kwhitehead]

Historically it was easily done. Pope marched his men down the west bank. Foote ran the Island Ten batteries to get transports down to them. Sound familiar. Pope crossed his army of 23,000 to Tiptonville on the east side of the river just south of Island Ten and it's land side batteries. The Island isolated and with no land side defenses for its shore batteries the 7,000 man garrison surrendered the next day without a single loss from combat to Pope's force.

Basically once the road to Memphis was cut and the river blocked anywhere south of the Island it was indefensible.

[Le Ricain]

To continue in this vein:

* Re the reply in this thread - won't amphibious landing on Reelfoot Lake be a daunting task. what with landing penalties and all? Plus a buncha boats are gonna be shot all to h*ll and gone.

* I've taken #10 from the land every time. Siege, bombard with I-clads, and lotsa guys with lotsa cannons under a good general.

* Historical bechmark - by the late spring of '62, the Union held Fts. Henry and Donelson, Nashville, New Orleans, Memphis, and #10 of course. IMO, this is tough to do in AACW with either the April or July 61 starts. Now, this is off the top of my head, but IIRC, the Union seized #10 with more than a little luck. There was an Army colonel who either knew someone or had some naval engineering experience and also rounded up a buncha guys who were river types or some such. Anyhow, he cobbled together a makeshift 'fleet', took the initiative, and stole a march (or steam?) so to speak, and was able to effect a propituous surrender/abandonment of the river fort. This is difficult to model in the game, it would just about have to be an Event.

* In AACW, as I wrote above - force majeure seems to be the most effective route.

As can be seen from the old post, I always take Island No 10 by amphibious landing. Your fleet will be fired on by the fort if the fleet tries to pass the fort or if it tries to leave the fort's area. The fort does not fire if just you move to the fort. Just to be sure, I always use the evade combat option.

It takes 5 days to load the troops (or zero days if in port), a couple of days to move and 5 days to offload the troops at Island No 10. The troops arrive in pretty good shape.

Assuming that your division has enough artillery, you should get a breach in 1 or 2 turns. You can wait for a second breach if the fort is well defended and if not assault it.

I have never had a problem taking Island No 10.

[GraniteStater]

Hmmm...interesting. I'll give it a go.

[GraniteStater]

Historically it was easily done. Pope marched his men down the west bank. Foote ran the Island Ten batteries to get transports down to them. Sound familiar. Pope crossed his army of 23,000 to Tiptonville on the east side of the river just south of Island Ten and it's land side batteries. The Island isolated and with no land side defenses for its shore batteries the 7,000 man garrison surrendered the next day without a single loss from combat to Pope's force.

Basically once the road to Memphis was cut and the river blocked anywhere south of the Island it was indefensible.

So what the heck am I recalling?

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[kwhitehead]

So what the heck am I recalling?

The tactics used by Pope were essentially the same as used by Grant to take Vicksburg. Just on a bigger scale. Pope even dug a canal too.

[GraniteStater]

The tactics used by Pope were essentially the same as used by Grant to take Vicksburg. Just on a bigger scale. Pope even dug a canal too.

Yes, but there's something I'm recalling here - I thought it was to do with #10. There was a Union colonel, or some officer, who was knowledgable about river craft and so on. He rustled up a small flotilla and effected un coup de guerre.

I'll hafta look it up. TG for the Internet.

[Chaplain Lovejoy]

Yes, but there's something I'm recalling here - I thought it was to do with #10. There was a Union colonel, or some officer, who was knowledgable about river craft and so on. He rustled up a small flotilla and effected un coup de guerre.

I'll hafta look it up. TG for the Internet.

There's a good discussion of the Island #10 affair, plus a map, in Lincoln and His Admirals. But I've taken it back to the library and cannot recall details.

[kwhitehead]

Yes, but there's something I'm recalling here - I thought it was to do with #10. There was a Union colonel, or some officer, who was knowledgable about river craft and so on. He rustled up a small flotilla and effected un coup de guerre.

I'll hafta look it up. TG for the Internet.

You might be thinking of Commander Walke, skipper of the Carondelet. He reinforced the decks, tied a coal barge filled with hay to the side, and tried to make a silent night run past Island Ten. He got past one battery but then soot in his chimneys caught fire putting out a five foot torch light and bring fire down on him. But his ship made it and demonstrated to Foote that they could run the batteries. Foote sent the Pittsburg down the next night. Pope had previously cut a canal and brought over his transports so now that he had a little fleet he took the Point Pleasant batteries on the west bank and landed his troops at Tiptonville Road.

[mikee64]

As can be seen from the old post, I always take Island No 10 by amphibious landing. Your fleet will be fired on by the fort if the fleet tries to pass the fort or if it tries to leave the fort's area. The fort does not fire if just you move to the fort. Just to be sure, I always use the evade combat option.

It takes 5 days to load the troops (or zero days if in port), a couple of days to move and 5 days to offload the troops at Island No 10. The troops arrive in pretty good shape.

Assuming that your division has enough artillery, you should get a breach in 1 or 2 turns. You can wait for a second breach if the fort is well defended and if not assault it.

I have never had a problem taking Island No 10.

This strategy seems to work. You can move your ships into the fort region and unload your troops as Le Ricain says above. The invading boats will not get fired on by the coastal artillery (even if there are CSA ships in the region and a naval battle occurs). I understand this is WAD. However in my recent experience and contrary to the portion of the quote I bolded above, if the ships wait until the next turn to leave the region, they still will not get fired on by the coastal artillery. So they can go back and get another load of troops, and repeat the cycle, all while the coastal guns stay locked in place.

Unless the fort or region is pretty heavily reinforced, it will fall easily to the amphibious landing force and the coastal guns will never fire.

[mikee64]

I just had a USA fleet run past Island 10 from south to north after a failed attempt at an amphibious landing further downstream. I had reinforced Island 10 with some cannon which successfully bombarded the fleet from within the fort. However, the coastal batteries did not fire (I am basing this on the amount of damage inflicted) and remained locked after the fleet ran past the fort. WAD?

[enf91]

I think it is. I read somewhere about "double-adjacency", which means a fleet has to go enter 2 regions next to a fort/entrenched arty for the guns to fire.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[mikee64]

This would require a game engine change to fix... Won't be done anytime soon. End of year earliest. We're not going to bother Pocus with game engine changes (except for CTD issues) untill the end of the year earliest. (i.e. auto fort gun bombardment vs local amphib landing)

Understood completely Gray, I was just trying to clarify the way its WAD with the current engine.

Regarding your request for my saves, I can send them but I think I figured out whats happening - when a fleet passes the fort, the fort batteries DO bombard. However, unless they are hit by return fire from the fleet, they stay locked. So they can fire repeatedly while still locked, which is fine. I was mistakenly under the impression that once they shot at something they would become unlocked.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[W.Barksdale]

I think units stay locked unless attacked by land forces... Naval bombardment by enemy naval units should not cause the locked artillery units to unlock... That's my current understanding on it.

This is incorrect in 1.13b sorry. I'd imagine it's the same in the latest patch. Anytime locked units take a hit from an enemy they will unlock.

[enf91]

This is incorrect in 1.13b sorry. I'd imagine it's the same in the latest patch. Anytime locked units take a hit from an enemy they will unlock.

It was still true as of the last 1.14 beta. Even siege hits will unlock units.