Hmm it seems larger when I am building units as when I am the north I seem to have oddels of $ n men versus when I play the south n I am always broke n hard pressed to scrape up every man, women, and child I can find n give em a rifle.
------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
-
GrudgeBringer
- Captain
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:25 am
Pepe, I'm sorry my strategy didn't seem to work for you on capturing washington.
I HAVE been accused of being "full of it" but mostly by my Girlfriend (sigh).
Perhaps I didn't explain what happened BEFORE I took Alexandria and How I set up my Corps.
But it DID work...3 times in a row (though looking back I was wrong on the third game , it was 24 turns not 17).
I replayed the scenario 3 times HOPING that the AI (Ms. Athena) would do something different so I could perhaps continue on and make an alternate strategy as I didn't want to go to the Hard setting so quick.
Now, I am a novice at THIS game but I have played a awful lot of strategic (I'm not so good at tactical) games with ladders and have constantly been around the top.
What I see (IMVeryHO) so far is this...If you play south you need a definite quick strategy for either a diversion (from somewhere around Harpers/Winchester) and a frontal ASSAULT right up the gut.
Thats providing the Union will give you a CHANCE to get your 2 early Corps full and rested. In order (on hard setting anyway) to do that you almost need to bring 'Ol fightin Joe' to Richmond so he isn't set upon early.
That presents a problem in itself as by the time you do that, get troops and Divisions set for both Corps, Its getting cold out and you have to go BACK to Winchester which by now is fortified pretty good.
THATS why playing on regular is SO different than hard.
And not to be critical but if you can beat it so easy (as I did) on Normal...
Why would you want to play the Union because the CSA presents a challenge on the harder settings.
It seems to me that you would WANT to play the harder settings and see that the 'over agressive' Union AI (as you put it) rams my strategy right up the errrrrr middle so to speak.
Not to mention playing someone thats a VET at playing this game as CSA in PBEM.
But, I am showing MY shortcomings and not suggesting that you have any at all.
Just 1 1/2 cents worth........
I HAVE been accused of being "full of it" but mostly by my Girlfriend (sigh).
Perhaps I didn't explain what happened BEFORE I took Alexandria and How I set up my Corps.
But it DID work...3 times in a row (though looking back I was wrong on the third game , it was 24 turns not 17).
I replayed the scenario 3 times HOPING that the AI (Ms. Athena) would do something different so I could perhaps continue on and make an alternate strategy as I didn't want to go to the Hard setting so quick.
Now, I am a novice at THIS game but I have played a awful lot of strategic (I'm not so good at tactical) games with ladders and have constantly been around the top.
What I see (IMVeryHO) so far is this...If you play south you need a definite quick strategy for either a diversion (from somewhere around Harpers/Winchester) and a frontal ASSAULT right up the gut.
Thats providing the Union will give you a CHANCE to get your 2 early Corps full and rested. In order (on hard setting anyway) to do that you almost need to bring 'Ol fightin Joe' to Richmond so he isn't set upon early.
That presents a problem in itself as by the time you do that, get troops and Divisions set for both Corps, Its getting cold out and you have to go BACK to Winchester which by now is fortified pretty good.
THATS why playing on regular is SO different than hard.
And not to be critical but if you can beat it so easy (as I did) on Normal...
Why would you want to play the Union because the CSA presents a challenge on the harder settings.
It seems to me that you would WANT to play the harder settings and see that the 'over agressive' Union AI (as you put it) rams my strategy right up the errrrrr middle so to speak.
Not to mention playing someone thats a VET at playing this game as CSA in PBEM.
But, I am showing MY shortcomings and not suggesting that you have any at all.
Just 1 1/2 cents worth........
The Good General looks to Win and then to Battle while the Poor General looks to Battle and Hopes to win.
Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu
Hmm am wondering Grudge which patch you used and if that affected things....dunno just a thought, I always quickly upload the newest patch on any game I can find as Jab asked me which version Im playing and I said dunno the newest whichever that is lol.
Wondering if there was a slight change to her tactics in tha patch cuz on my computer she NEVER missies the fact I took Alexandria and pounds me with everything she can find the verbeal, 'kitchen sink'
...n tho even I can usually dig-in and weather her on-slaught pressing into Washington then is outta the question.
So I divised a bypass that I can hit Washington unmolested and pull the rug out from under her---I think the easy game, 'fix' is you dont loss as many morale points by losing your capitol....although these would have been big objectives to either side they were hardly an I-WIN-BUTTON as the game thinks to belive (I think cuz the designers are European and this is mostly a European concept but hardly American lol)
Hmm dont exactly remember the exact #'s but when Athena bowled me over when I was playing the north....think I had 70 morale points (dont remember) n had like 10
after she was finished with me.....I think it would be an easy coding change to cut that # in half to reflect a much more historicaly accurate picture of the moods of the country, n in fact it WASNT losing Richmond that convinced Lee to surrender, it was the fact his army had NO food, clothes, or amunitions to fight with as not only was Richmond gone but the Shannandoah area farmlands were burnt n no ammunitions productions out of Petersburg any more...as the south was literally devestated which is what it took, a southern victory would have almost needed to achieve the same or possibly wait for the civill unrest to corrupt the north?
Think my plan will possibly work on hard settings too (dunno havent tried it yet) because its not baised on any long-drawn-out plan n takes only like 10 turns (dont remember exactly) just remember I was assaulting Washington in late July or was it Early Augest depending on when I got the path clear....since my path plan is a low priorty area to her AI.
Even on hard settings you have a slight advantage in troop strength over Athena in the very beginning of the war, as the south, and need to use it to your fullest eka. taking out Washington since thats the I-WIN-BUTTON that it SHOULDNT be IMO
I want to mention even though I took Washington on normal, I am still having fun with the game as even though it says, I WON I view it as a bogus BS message cuz I really wouldnt have won squat lol and Athena is still got some fight left in her....I still cant keep her out of TN....she firmly holds Mo.....and the army of the Potomic n Hooker with a fulll stack is sitting in Baltimore ready to pounce on me if I leave the Washington area....so she is far from utterly destroyed, n my REAL goal of invading the Northern heartlands, (which is true victory lol) is still quite a few turns away
PS Oh yeah Grudge are you checking the boxes that make her smarter too?...I always check those in any game, my approach is the sme to any strategy game, play it on normal giving the AI as much time as it needs to consider its move///yeah gets a little boring some time waiting for it
(even with a high end system she needs time)
But, I dont like feltching a victory from an AI without giving it all the time it needs, the way you feltch your victory over dimwitted Athenna is making her think your not after anything important, she cant see the playing board like a real person, she only responds to threats and assesses priorties, n how your, 'tricking' her into thinking Alexandria is of low priorty is beyond me, cuz as dimwitted as she is shes never tottaly stupid and quite aggressive at responding to any of my advances.
Wondering if there was a slight change to her tactics in tha patch cuz on my computer she NEVER missies the fact I took Alexandria and pounds me with everything she can find the verbeal, 'kitchen sink'
...n tho even I can usually dig-in and weather her on-slaught pressing into Washington then is outta the question.
So I divised a bypass that I can hit Washington unmolested and pull the rug out from under her---I think the easy game, 'fix' is you dont loss as many morale points by losing your capitol....although these would have been big objectives to either side they were hardly an I-WIN-BUTTON as the game thinks to belive (I think cuz the designers are European and this is mostly a European concept but hardly American lol)
Hmm dont exactly remember the exact #'s but when Athena bowled me over when I was playing the north....think I had 70 morale points (dont remember) n had like 10
after she was finished with me.....I think it would be an easy coding change to cut that # in half to reflect a much more historicaly accurate picture of the moods of the country, n in fact it WASNT losing Richmond that convinced Lee to surrender, it was the fact his army had NO food, clothes, or amunitions to fight with as not only was Richmond gone but the Shannandoah area farmlands were burnt n no ammunitions productions out of Petersburg any more...as the south was literally devestated which is what it took, a southern victory would have almost needed to achieve the same or possibly wait for the civill unrest to corrupt the north?
Think my plan will possibly work on hard settings too (dunno havent tried it yet) because its not baised on any long-drawn-out plan n takes only like 10 turns (dont remember exactly) just remember I was assaulting Washington in late July or was it Early Augest depending on when I got the path clear....since my path plan is a low priorty area to her AI.
Even on hard settings you have a slight advantage in troop strength over Athena in the very beginning of the war, as the south, and need to use it to your fullest eka. taking out Washington since thats the I-WIN-BUTTON that it SHOULDNT be IMO
I want to mention even though I took Washington on normal, I am still having fun with the game as even though it says, I WON I view it as a bogus BS message cuz I really wouldnt have won squat lol and Athena is still got some fight left in her....I still cant keep her out of TN....she firmly holds Mo.....and the army of the Potomic n Hooker with a fulll stack is sitting in Baltimore ready to pounce on me if I leave the Washington area....so she is far from utterly destroyed, n my REAL goal of invading the Northern heartlands, (which is true victory lol) is still quite a few turns away
PS Oh yeah Grudge are you checking the boxes that make her smarter too?...I always check those in any game, my approach is the sme to any strategy game, play it on normal giving the AI as much time as it needs to consider its move///yeah gets a little boring some time waiting for it
(even with a high end system she needs time)
But, I dont like feltching a victory from an AI without giving it all the time it needs, the way you feltch your victory over dimwitted Athenna is making her think your not after anything important, she cant see the playing board like a real person, she only responds to threats and assesses priorties, n how your, 'tricking' her into thinking Alexandria is of low priorty is beyond me, cuz as dimwitted as she is shes never tottaly stupid and quite aggressive at responding to any of my advances.
------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
-
GrudgeBringer
- Captain
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:25 am
I would also play on for about 30 more turns.
The Lowest I ever had the Union Morale down to was 2 (although I remember someone on here said they actually made the Union quit one time).
I always play with the AI having as much time as she needs.
I described HOW I did it in an earlier post but what I guess I didn't say was that I would move J.J. one region NW of Harpers (after taking it some time earlier).
The same turn I would Assault Alexandria with Jackson Corps (Mcgruder, Huger, Bonham, and Gustavious somebody with FULL perfect Divisions with 4 extra Corps art.
Next turn I would move JJ back to Harpers and who ever was in Washington would make a move towards Harpers.
I didn't even let 'ol' Stonewall rest.
Since the force I just whipped went into Washington I just had Jackson Assault Washington....Game over....BUT that was on normal.
I tried that on Hard and it never let me breathe long enough to ever get back to Winchester. But it never did try and get richmond (although it would go right by it and attack another town.
The Lowest I ever had the Union Morale down to was 2 (although I remember someone on here said they actually made the Union quit one time).
I always play with the AI having as much time as she needs.
I described HOW I did it in an earlier post but what I guess I didn't say was that I would move J.J. one region NW of Harpers (after taking it some time earlier).
The same turn I would Assault Alexandria with Jackson Corps (Mcgruder, Huger, Bonham, and Gustavious somebody with FULL perfect Divisions with 4 extra Corps art.
Next turn I would move JJ back to Harpers and who ever was in Washington would make a move towards Harpers.
I didn't even let 'ol' Stonewall rest.
Since the force I just whipped went into Washington I just had Jackson Assault Washington....Game over....BUT that was on normal.
I tried that on Hard and it never let me breathe long enough to ever get back to Winchester. But it never did try and get richmond (although it would go right by it and attack another town.
The Good General looks to Win and then to Battle while the Poor General looks to Battle and Hopes to win.
Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu
Say Grudge where was the main Army for the union n what was it doing......amazed Athena didnt take a shot at you in Alexandria?
My plan is baised n bypassing them all (being as I havent alerted her other then taking Harpers which she sends some strong force after) n blasting Washington with my full compliment of all divisions I could muster under Jackson Corp, the only other force I have in the east unlocked is a couple of cav and Beauregards main army that I just try to follow Athena's main force around with n cut any rail she intends to use and try to slower any way I can....if she stumbles into Jackson by luck it screws everything up.
Usually her strongest force is either:
A in Alexandria
B. in the rail square next to it ready to pound me if I even consider taking it.
and gives her mega movement speed which she loves....thats why I cut
that top line above Washington so she wont use that path n screw my
plan up
C. off doing other misheaf but if I alert her somehow she magics it back n
pounds me with it but ONLY if I have alerted her to the threat by taking
an area of any importance (which Alexandria always triggers)
MY plan should work on hard since its baised on your early advantage and tottal deception of the AI....yeah Im re-reading and trying to visualize how your plan would work, n I still dont see how Grudge, cuz she always manages to hit me hard n quick once I have alerted her flags....hmm was her main force already deep in Virginia?
My plan is baised n bypassing them all (being as I havent alerted her other then taking Harpers which she sends some strong force after) n blasting Washington with my full compliment of all divisions I could muster under Jackson Corp, the only other force I have in the east unlocked is a couple of cav and Beauregards main army that I just try to follow Athena's main force around with n cut any rail she intends to use and try to slower any way I can....if she stumbles into Jackson by luck it screws everything up.
Usually her strongest force is either:
A in Alexandria
B. in the rail square next to it ready to pound me if I even consider taking it.
and gives her mega movement speed which she loves....thats why I cut
that top line above Washington so she wont use that path n screw my
plan up
C. off doing other misheaf but if I alert her somehow she magics it back n
pounds me with it but ONLY if I have alerted her to the threat by taking
an area of any importance (which Alexandria always triggers)
MY plan should work on hard since its baised on your early advantage and tottal deception of the AI....yeah Im re-reading and trying to visualize how your plan would work, n I still dont see how Grudge, cuz she always manages to hit me hard n quick once I have alerted her flags....hmm was her main force already deep in Virginia?
------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
-
hereonceagain
- Civilian
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:05 am
Hello...
Just a few suggestions regarding CSA strategy from April 1861 onwards.
Opening moves...
Storm Sumter, then send forces to NW Tenn. McCulloch/Zollicoffer (as one) to Dallas to reinforce Sibley. Use 2 Riv transports and 4 Sup Wagons to build depots Shreveport to Dallas. 2-3 61 generals to Tenn.
Early strategy...
East...
AoNV to Fredericksburg. Valley forces to Fredericksburg. Johnston Army Commander. Form 2 corps. Jackson with 4 Divs main force. Beauregard reserve corps (Res and Vol brigades). Beaureguard (Huger/Magruder/Norfolk Art) plus CSS Virginia besiege and storm Ft Monroe with Div from Jackson if needed. Once Taken Huger commands fort. Magruder transfers over to cavalry command, Reserve Div forces to Wilmington area (not inside) for Hills coastal command when he arrives. By Jan 1862 the above should be completed. Build naval transport and a few Ironclads in Virginia for raiding into Maryland/Delaware.
West...
Militia Texas/Arkansas. Build 2 Inf/2 Cav brigs and assemble at Dallas. Texas Cav/art from Tenn to Dallas. Command under McCulloch/Zolli/Sibley. If Houston appears assemble at Shreveport.
If price appears then defend north Arkansas with militia (holding) until Lyons location confirmed.
Secure Texas and take Tuscon. Sibley plus inf hold. McCulloch plus cavalry to Ft. Smith. Into winter quarters.
Centre...
Ken/Ten/Ala militia to secure forward and rear areas. Tenn div forms area west of Nashville. South Carolina Div forms SE of Paducah/Columbus.
Avoid entering Kentucky until after Federal forces.
Cavalry used to picket forwards areas against raids. Gunboats (all) assemble at Island 10 and then picket river from Cairo to east of Nashville.
By Jan Tenn should be secure against raids.
Future strategy...
Hold East. Threaten west. Take Kentucky and push into Illinois/Indiana and Ohio.
1862 Objectives...
East...
2 Corps main army plus reserve corps Richmond. Forward line Alexandria/Leesburg/Harpers. Hill coastal Div in NC. Cav Div raids (Stuart/Magruder) into north.
West...
Need to threaten St Louis. Occupy Missouri with Cav/Indian forces. Assemble main force as a threat at Rolla. Build 2-3 Ironclads to dominate Cairo area.
Centre...
Army HQ at Ft Donel. Polk (small corps) threat to Cairo. Occupy Kentucky. Ship army HQ to Lexington. Transfer Polk to Western army.
By winter 1862 Kentucky plus northern river bridgeheads secured. Threat to St Louis/Cairo occupying Lyons/Grant/Sherman main forces.
1863 Objectives...
Naval raids into Delaware/Maryland at Div strength. West Army threaten St Louis/Cairo. Centre army breakout into north. Cavalry raid to the great lakes.
Economy...
Improvements...
High level in Texas.
Blockade runners...
1861-2 move all to gulf, increase to 6 in total. 1863 add 6 to atlantic.
Commerce raiding...
1861-2 increase by 4 Frigs and steam Frigs. 1863 variable.
River forces...
3-4 Ironclads mississippi fleet. Block and threaten Cairo. 3-4 Ironclads Norfolk. Threaten Chesapeake area/support landings.
Money and recruits...
1861-2...
Early call for volunteers and bonds. Keep inflation at zero and use lowest level call. Intent being to keep NM highest possible level. In early high 1862 victory points should allow reasonable Vol call and decent bonds. By end 1862 the occupation of most off the border states will greatly increase low level calls and revenue.
Victory...
By earrly summer 1863 the invasion of the north plus the occupation of the border states should get the CSA NM near 180-190. From then on use raids and major victories to win. The threats to centre/great lakes may draw forces from the St Lois/Cairo/Mayland areas. If they do the activate those front to make the final push to 200 NM.
All comments welcome
Gary
Just a few suggestions regarding CSA strategy from April 1861 onwards.
Opening moves...
Storm Sumter, then send forces to NW Tenn. McCulloch/Zollicoffer (as one) to Dallas to reinforce Sibley. Use 2 Riv transports and 4 Sup Wagons to build depots Shreveport to Dallas. 2-3 61 generals to Tenn.
Early strategy...
East...
AoNV to Fredericksburg. Valley forces to Fredericksburg. Johnston Army Commander. Form 2 corps. Jackson with 4 Divs main force. Beauregard reserve corps (Res and Vol brigades). Beaureguard (Huger/Magruder/Norfolk Art) plus CSS Virginia besiege and storm Ft Monroe with Div from Jackson if needed. Once Taken Huger commands fort. Magruder transfers over to cavalry command, Reserve Div forces to Wilmington area (not inside) for Hills coastal command when he arrives. By Jan 1862 the above should be completed. Build naval transport and a few Ironclads in Virginia for raiding into Maryland/Delaware.
West...
Militia Texas/Arkansas. Build 2 Inf/2 Cav brigs and assemble at Dallas. Texas Cav/art from Tenn to Dallas. Command under McCulloch/Zolli/Sibley. If Houston appears assemble at Shreveport.
If price appears then defend north Arkansas with militia (holding) until Lyons location confirmed.
Secure Texas and take Tuscon. Sibley plus inf hold. McCulloch plus cavalry to Ft. Smith. Into winter quarters.
Centre...
Ken/Ten/Ala militia to secure forward and rear areas. Tenn div forms area west of Nashville. South Carolina Div forms SE of Paducah/Columbus.
Avoid entering Kentucky until after Federal forces.
Cavalry used to picket forwards areas against raids. Gunboats (all) assemble at Island 10 and then picket river from Cairo to east of Nashville.
By Jan Tenn should be secure against raids.
Future strategy...
Hold East. Threaten west. Take Kentucky and push into Illinois/Indiana and Ohio.
1862 Objectives...
East...
2 Corps main army plus reserve corps Richmond. Forward line Alexandria/Leesburg/Harpers. Hill coastal Div in NC. Cav Div raids (Stuart/Magruder) into north.
West...
Need to threaten St Louis. Occupy Missouri with Cav/Indian forces. Assemble main force as a threat at Rolla. Build 2-3 Ironclads to dominate Cairo area.
Centre...
Army HQ at Ft Donel. Polk (small corps) threat to Cairo. Occupy Kentucky. Ship army HQ to Lexington. Transfer Polk to Western army.
By winter 1862 Kentucky plus northern river bridgeheads secured. Threat to St Louis/Cairo occupying Lyons/Grant/Sherman main forces.
1863 Objectives...
Naval raids into Delaware/Maryland at Div strength. West Army threaten St Louis/Cairo. Centre army breakout into north. Cavalry raid to the great lakes.
Economy...
Improvements...
High level in Texas.
Blockade runners...
1861-2 move all to gulf, increase to 6 in total. 1863 add 6 to atlantic.
Commerce raiding...
1861-2 increase by 4 Frigs and steam Frigs. 1863 variable.
River forces...
3-4 Ironclads mississippi fleet. Block and threaten Cairo. 3-4 Ironclads Norfolk. Threaten Chesapeake area/support landings.
Money and recruits...
1861-2...
Early call for volunteers and bonds. Keep inflation at zero and use lowest level call. Intent being to keep NM highest possible level. In early high 1862 victory points should allow reasonable Vol call and decent bonds. By end 1862 the occupation of most off the border states will greatly increase low level calls and revenue.
Victory...
By earrly summer 1863 the invasion of the north plus the occupation of the border states should get the CSA NM near 180-190. From then on use raids and major victories to win. The threats to centre/great lakes may draw forces from the St Lois/Cairo/Mayland areas. If they do the activate those front to make the final push to 200 NM.
All comments welcome
Gary
hereonceagain wrote:Hello...
All comments welcome
Gary
Hmm just 1...everything sounded good except in the east, you forgot that the dimwitted Athena can be tricked into surrendering Washington early thus crushing her morale.
Grunting it out never appealed to me in any game, as Napolean said, 'the natural recourse to a defensive war is surrender.'
As I said after taking Washington n crushing her littlle morale (which is TOTTALY bogus historically n needs to be changed) now for the real challenge fun of invading the deep north and plundering all her wealth lol... now thats victory!
------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
pepe, you have more than made your point about how you consider the AI lacking in its ability to defend Washington throughout various threads around here; anyone who hasn't grasped your take on it by now, never will.... I'm sure there must be other things in the game that also are worth focusing on? 
Thanks,
Rafiki
Thanks,
Rafiki
Ha ha Raf true
I want to point out that Athena as an AI really isnt that bad a player, just suffers from the common problem that NO AI can actually SEE the playing board with eyes as a human can, she simply responds to her flagged alerts and acesses priorties....no human playing multi-player would ever be dumb enough to miss this I hope so this plan only works in a solo game against Athena....would be an extreamly bad idea in PvP probably, much too risky.
She also actually re-took Washington in most of my scenarios and my real goal of utterly destroying the north is difficult even on just a normal setting...... utterly impposible on hard I am sure.
Say tho.....will they actually change that I-WIN_BUTTON Raf at some time, it shouldnt be there IMO n is really a sort of BUG dare I say.....simple fix to change the morale loss in half right?...with the newest patch?
Ohh yeah n a big plus to foreign intervention..thats historically what it would have achieved, far from breaking the northern senators will to fight on.
Hey you guys may not believe me, but I pulled it off on hard too lol, but utterly crushing the north is outta the question for sure, Athena is swallowing me in a sea of blue already ...Latter Ill post how n the route I used ....much more risky a move n far from full-proof, dont know the odds of it succeding yet as I need to play a number of times which I would need to do to know that 1; n to be honest it kinda bores me on hard setting cuz as I said actually crushing her is outta the question (just too many blue troops as she gets maga more ), as where in normal a distinct possiblity to utterly destroy the north (burn baby burn lol)
Yeah I had to use a much different route in and Im still unsure just exactly how to avoid those huge main northern armies moving around...cuz as I said if they blunder into me somehow it will destroy the whole plan. N cutting those northern rails is ridiculous on hard, cuz oh yeah since I have to tottaly by pass Harpers (on hard) I would rather sacrafice Winchester n hope Athena (geesh if I am lucky) would send a bulk of her troops there.
Remember its all baised on giving Jackson every man, women, and child you can find to fight n getting into that square directly west of Washington unmolested....yeah a frontal assault I know but Jackson CAN pull it off early ONLY because the south had the very early historical advantage.
I want to point out that Athena as an AI really isnt that bad a player, just suffers from the common problem that NO AI can actually SEE the playing board with eyes as a human can, she simply responds to her flagged alerts and acesses priorties....no human playing multi-player would ever be dumb enough to miss this I hope so this plan only works in a solo game against Athena....would be an extreamly bad idea in PvP probably, much too risky.
She also actually re-took Washington in most of my scenarios and my real goal of utterly destroying the north is difficult even on just a normal setting......
utterly impposible on hard I am sure.
Say tho.....will they actually change that I-WIN_BUTTON Raf at some time, it shouldnt be there IMO n is really a sort of BUG dare I say.....simple fix to change the morale loss in half right?...with the newest patch?
Ohh yeah n a big plus to foreign intervention..thats historically what it would have achieved, far from breaking the northern senators will to fight on.
Hey you guys may not believe me, but I pulled it off on hard too lol, but utterly crushing the north is outta the question for sure, Athena is swallowing me in a sea of blue already
...Latter Ill post how n the route I used ....much more risky a move n far from full-proof, dont know the odds of it succeding yet as I need to play a number of times which I would need to do to know that 1; n to be honest it kinda bores me on hard setting cuz as I said actually crushing her is outta the question (just too many blue troops as she gets maga more ), as where in normal a distinct possiblity to utterly destroy the north (burn baby burn lol)
Yeah I had to use a much different route in and Im still unsure just exactly how to avoid those huge main northern armies moving around...cuz as I said if they blunder into me somehow it will destroy the whole plan. N cutting those northern rails is ridiculous on hard, cuz oh yeah since I have to tottaly by pass Harpers (on hard) I would rather sacrafice Winchester n hope Athena (geesh if I am lucky) would send a bulk of her troops there.
Remember its all baised on giving Jackson every man, women, and child you can find to fight n getting into that square directly west of Washington unmolested....yeah a frontal assault I know
but Jackson CAN pull it off early ONLY because the south had the very early historical advantage.------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
-
GrudgeBringer
- Captain
- Posts: 156
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Well I know this....
I just stopped my second game on Hard in Feb 62.
I was sailing along ok (not great but ok) and it looked like I had found a way to slow the Union down.
I had taken Ft Monroe (what a MONSTER fort to have on your side!!)
Been whooped twice at Fredricksburg trying to take it from Burnside (ahhhhh, I forgot to tooltip 'ol' Burnie and see that he had a strength of aprox 1400...not good for J.J)
But overall I was winning in the west, taken Paducah, and Bowling Green.
AND THEN....the wheels came off and the yanks came pouring in every theater from every side.
It was amazing, one turn I am feeling pretty good and the next...I am honestly knocking my King over as I see that its useless.
So, as for me Athena on hard may have her quirks but so far I can't find her weakness.....she just sits and waits like a dang spider then attacks!!!
I just stopped my second game on Hard in Feb 62.
I was sailing along ok (not great but ok) and it looked like I had found a way to slow the Union down.
I had taken Ft Monroe (what a MONSTER fort to have on your side!!)
Been whooped twice at Fredricksburg trying to take it from Burnside (ahhhhh, I forgot to tooltip 'ol' Burnie and see that he had a strength of aprox 1400...not good for J.J)
But overall I was winning in the west, taken Paducah, and Bowling Green.
AND THEN....the wheels came off and the yanks came pouring in every theater from every side.
It was amazing, one turn I am feeling pretty good and the next...I am honestly knocking my King over as I see that its useless.
So, as for me Athena on hard may have her quirks but so far I can't find her weakness.....she just sits and waits like a dang spider then attacks!!!
The Good General looks to Win and then to Battle while the Poor General looks to Battle and Hopes to win.
Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu
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daddytorgo
- Conscript
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:23 am
pepe4158 wrote:Say tho.....will they actually change that I-WIN_BUTTON Raf at some time, it shouldnt be there IMO n is really a sort of BUG dare I say.....simple fix to change the morale loss in half right?...with the newest patch?
Ohh yeah n a big plus to foreign intervention..thats historically what it would have achieved, far from breaking the northern senators will to fight on.
Work on improving the AI is continuous and ongoing. I don't know if "AI defence of Washington" is on the list of currents tasks.
As for the rest, it might be that this is working just like the designers intended (or not, I don't have insight into that). However, unless I am much mistaken, you can mod yourself the amount of morale lost when Washington is lost, and you can also add that FE is adjusted in some way too when that happens.
Hmmm how Raff...I am sure ill play that way from now on...ummm which mod do I need? I am a stickler for history and they would have only achieved foreign intervention IMO,as Europe was sending advisors and they wanted knowledge who would win n if they didnt know they intented to stay neutral.
That the union and the north would just lay down n die seems riddiculous, after the initial shock they would want to fight harder.
So I go to the mods n look through them.?...yeah I can win on hard too....no quarantee tho cuz its if I stumble into the main union army it wrecks the plan, in the game I just won, (by the computers definition of winning but certainly not mine , on hard LvL) she actually sent the main army after Winchester, and Manasses and was slaughtering me big time there.
As Jackson was poised to frontal assault Washington from the Montgomery,MD square I couldnt believe Athena was stupid enough this time to have her main army ready to smash JJ at Winchester with only a couple of token forces (he was wounded for the cause lol)
The new path, on hard level, was Leesburg(Loudon VA)---Montomery Md ...now this plan DOESNT always work, I blunder into huge forces about 50% of the time and even though I win the battle you have to get to Montgomery unscathed to take Washington (especially on hard) now I want to mention, at the risk of my pitfull southern economy, on hard level, I did have to build 2 extra Hvy Aty, and a sharpshooter to win (build em a soon as you can and they will be ready when Jackson unlocks, oh yeah n take the other 20 pounder too from Norfolk...the seige cannon is too slow). But I dare say I win by turn 9, 50% of the time, but hard to really call this a victory as I really believe a patch should come out that changes this....not just a mod.
N ill probably go back to normal on my games cuz I prefer a tottal victory in any game (burning the north as they did the south)
and that isnt achievable I really believe on hard as she still has so many blue troops running around to keep me out of the north heartlands.
That the union and the north would just lay down n die seems riddiculous, after the initial shock they would want to fight harder.
So I go to the mods n look through them.?...yeah I can win on hard too....no quarantee tho cuz its if I stumble into the main union army it wrecks the plan, in the game I just won, (by the computers definition of winning but certainly not mine
, on hard LvL) she actually sent the main army after Winchester, and Manasses and was slaughtering me big time there.
As Jackson was poised to frontal assault Washington from the Montgomery,MD square I couldnt believe Athena was stupid enough this time to have her main army ready to smash JJ at Winchester with only a couple of token forces (he was wounded for the cause lol)
The new path, on hard level, was Leesburg(Loudon VA)---Montomery Md ...now this plan DOESNT always work, I blunder into huge forces about 50% of the time and even though I win the battle you have to get to Montgomery unscathed to take Washington (especially on hard) now I want to mention, at the risk of my pitfull southern economy, on hard level, I did have to build 2 extra Hvy Aty, and a sharpshooter to win (build em a soon as you can and they will be ready when Jackson unlocks, oh yeah n take the other 20 pounder too from Norfolk...the seige cannon is too slow). But I dare say I win by turn 9, 50% of the time, but hard to really call this a victory as I really believe a patch should come out that changes this....not just a mod.
N ill probably go back to normal on my games cuz I prefer a tottal victory in any game (burning the north as they did the south)
and that isnt achievable I really believe on hard as she still has so many blue troops running around to keep me out of the north heartlands.------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
pepe4158 wrote:Hmmm how Raff...I am sure ill play that way from now on...ummm which mod do I need?
AFAIK, there is no mod that currently has this incorporated, which gives you two options:
- Suggest it for other modders, so that they e.g. incorporate it into their mod, or
- Make a mod for it yourself
I say it like that, since I hope there is a chance you'll take this as a motivation for discovering the wonderful world of modding
Ha-ha if I made one I would include an option to raze cities down one level (eka Sherman burning Atlanta) but I think thats a little beyond my program editing skills right now....but certainly a skill to work towards
------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
daddytorgo wrote:for those who were wondering - I am playing on Normal. All settings normal.
Yeah Daddy sorry I doubted you cuz I hadnt noticed you DID say you knocked out Washington....Athena starts to crumble after that from not being able to pump out units.....shes still putting up a good fight keeping me out of the north heartlands n other then she doesnt grasp that stupid I-WIN-BUTTON ( I know Raf, I said it before , but it shouldnt be there
) she is a pretty good fighter.
Losing Washington is definitly her Stalingrad or Battle of Midway points, after that you will slowly turn the tide in your favor....I am still wondering on normal if I can get into the heartlands of the north its already winter of 1862 in my best game and I have only made it to Dayton in the mid-west and capturing Harrisburg was my chief triumph in the eastern summer campaign as she still holds Baltimore.
Say Grudge.....did you ever win on hard yet?....just wondering caz like I said won a feltched victory turn 9 (hard level) by sneaking by her and knocking out Washington with giving Jackson everything I could scrape up n hitting her with the old verbeal, 'kitchen sink.'
------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
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GrudgeBringer
- Captain
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:25 am
No I havn't yet, I have played twice and thought I had it pretty much in hand but Athena wouldn't let me breathe around Richmond so I couldn't get to Washington.
Will try something new soon
Will try something new soon
The Good General looks to Win and then to Battle while the Poor General looks to Battle and Hopes to win.
Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu
Ha-ha yeah sneaking by her is tough to get to that square, it only works 50% of the time for me.....hmmm maybe 33% dunno since its baised on a limited times of doing it.
I could easily see, even though the game said I won, my true victory of invading the northern heartlands looked impossible (on hard) cuz I was already by turn 9 getting swallowed in a sea of blue so I went back to normal lol
I could easily see, even though the game said I won, my true victory of invading the northern heartlands looked impossible (on hard) cuz I was already by turn 9 getting swallowed in a sea of blue
so I went back to normal lol------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
Bottom line is I think that you need to work on a strategy that involves more than just wrong-footing the AI and getting an easy road into Washington. Maybe discpline yourself to play a game where you forbid yourself from entering Washington and stick to it. It is perfectly possible to win without it as the CSA, and if the AI has a weakness then you can prevent yourself from exploiting it to keep historical balance. This will train yourself to build a good solid army, explore all the tactics available to the CSA and then you should get strong enough to resist the blue tide.
Otherwise when you play Jabberwock he is going to pull each of your limbs off one by one I suspect... Have fun!
Otherwise when you play Jabberwock he is going to pull each of your limbs off one by one I suspect... Have fun!
"Stay low, move fast"
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Jabberwock
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Brochgale
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Ha-ha Ski...I cant resist wanting to pull the rug out from under Athena, especially since she did it to me to show me it could be done that way.
As far as grunting it out, I do when I play the north, as the south is determined to fight forever and no easy path.
Still devising what I would think would work best against a human if I am the north cuz I got side-tracked with this blog about being the south and winning (sorry Jab). Lets face it everyone wants to be the south as its more glamorous being they had a militiristic society, so I wanted to see if I could do it (love a good challenge lol.) I mean lets face facts, an, 'how to win as the north' thread is probably going to be ignored lol....everyone wants to play as the upstart rebs lol
But lets face it, they and their way of life was doomed to perish under an industrial tide of production and GNP of the north and this game has captured that advantage....if the north player doesnt tottaly screw up, in PvP he can bury the south under a wave of blue (as Athena does most players here if you dont take out Washington.)
Honestly I dont think a southern victory can be easily achieved if your the south in PvP cuz no northern player will let you pull off my, 'fletch' of Athena....easy enough to slow down that early eastern advantage by being dare I say, 'cautious' or hopefully a better word, 'carefull' lol....if the north can still hold Washington by turn 15 in PvP the tide will be turning in his favor.
Still its was no piece of cake devising a plan to beat Athena by turn 9 on hard...if I may brag that took some skill, I had to carefully manage my divisions, strain my pitfull southern economy, and form my divisions correctly (with power) to have enough punch even if I could get to that square I wanted. That was my only concern was if I could get their on hard, would I have enough power?...and it was a yes....hmmm wonder if I could do it on extra hard lol?....cuz there is easy, normal, hard and extra hard.....bet I could do it on extra hard too lol, but not going to try cuz Im busy with both taxes and trying to get my plan ready for Jabber
As far as grunting it out, I do when I play the north, as the south is determined to fight forever and no easy path.
Still devising what I would think would work best against a human if I am the north cuz I got side-tracked with this blog about being the south and winning (sorry Jab). Lets face it everyone wants to be the south as its more glamorous being they had a militiristic society, so I wanted to see if I could do it (love a good challenge lol.) I mean lets face facts, an, 'how to win as the north' thread is probably going to be ignored lol....everyone wants to play as the upstart rebs lol
But lets face it, they and their way of life was doomed to perish under an industrial tide of production and GNP of the north and this game has captured that advantage....if the north player doesnt tottaly screw up, in PvP he can bury the south under a wave of blue (as Athena does most players here if you dont take out Washington.)
Honestly I dont think a southern victory can be easily achieved if your the south in PvP cuz no northern player will let you pull off my, 'fletch' of Athena....easy enough to slow down that early eastern advantage by being dare I say, 'cautious' or hopefully a better word, 'carefull' lol....if the north can still hold Washington by turn 15 in PvP the tide will be turning in his favor.
Still its was no piece of cake devising a plan to beat Athena by turn 9 on hard...if I may brag that took some skill, I had to carefully manage my divisions, strain my pitfull southern economy, and form my divisions correctly (with power) to have enough punch even if I could get to that square I wanted. That was my only concern was if I could get their on hard, would I have enough power?...and it was a yes....hmmm wonder if I could do it on extra hard lol?....cuz there is easy, normal, hard and extra hard.....bet I could do it on extra hard too lol, but not going to try cuz Im busy with both taxes
and trying to get my plan ready for Jabber------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
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GrudgeBringer
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- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:25 am
On normal, after a while its pretty easy to take Washington (once you know what your doing) and do it every time.
I think that has been discussed over and over in this thread.
Its not Athena's fault...its the normal settings fault.
BUT, I believe thats what the Easy and Normal setting are for.
I see Pepe won it on Hard in 9 moves and I give him congrats....
However, I have NOT been able to get past about Feb or March of 62 (thats when the Big Blue wave hits me in about 6 spots.
I can't get anywhere near Washington because Burnside has a Corps there with a rating of aprox 1400.
I have tried to bump him off twice with all I had but to no avail.
I see the problem as IF I take EVERYTHING to either Alexandria or FredricksBurg (where Burnside ends up normally) I leave Richmond open to attack.
Soooooooooo.....back to the drawing board for me as I want to win it on hard and the only way I see it happening as CSA is a quick strike at the biggest target I can find and that just happens to be....you got it , Washington.
I think that has been discussed over and over in this thread.
Its not Athena's fault...its the normal settings fault.
BUT, I believe thats what the Easy and Normal setting are for.
I see Pepe won it on Hard in 9 moves and I give him congrats....
However, I have NOT been able to get past about Feb or March of 62 (thats when the Big Blue wave hits me in about 6 spots.
I can't get anywhere near Washington because Burnside has a Corps there with a rating of aprox 1400.
I have tried to bump him off twice with all I had but to no avail.
I see the problem as IF I take EVERYTHING to either Alexandria or FredricksBurg (where Burnside ends up normally) I leave Richmond open to attack.
Soooooooooo.....back to the drawing board for me as I want to win it on hard and the only way I see it happening as CSA is a quick strike at the biggest target I can find and that just happens to be....you got it , Washington.
The Good General looks to Win and then to Battle while the Poor General looks to Battle and Hopes to win.
Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu
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Jabberwock
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Brochgale wrote:Do you have a metal limb by any chance. I once broke someones jaw with an arm that was in cast - he thought a one handed opponent would be esay to intimidate and bully.
No, but once when we were kids my brother kicked me in the unmentionables with his prosthesis. That put me out of commision for a while.
[color="DimGray"] You deserve to be spanked[/color]
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Brochgale
- Brigadier General
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Say Grudge did you try my approch lol?....if so n it didnt work, there may be couple minor but key things that I did different then you n ill e-mail them to you if you want?
Just did wanted to mention doubt any one could just pick up the game and win (on hard) as I did....it took me hours of getting the S$it kicked outta me (by Athena) to learn enough to pay her back lol
Also its NOT a full-proof plan....in some cases her AI randomly blunders into your approach...screwing up your cohesian and the plan
Just did wanted to mention doubt any one could just pick up the game and win (on hard) as I did....it took me hours of getting the S$it kicked outta me (by Athena) to learn enough to pay her back lol
Also its NOT a full-proof plan....in some cases her AI randomly blunders into your approach...screwing up your cohesian and the plan
------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
Jabberwock wrote:No, but once when we were kids my brother kicked me in the unmentionables with his prosthesis. That put me out of commision for a while.
Ruinning your units, 'cohesian factor' I bet lol
------Ahhh the generals, they are numerous but not good for much.------
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
The Civil War is not ended: I question whether any serious civil war ever does end.
Author: T. S. Eliot
New honorary title: Colonel TROLL---Dont feed the trolls! (cuz Ill just up my rank by 1 more post!)
-
GrudgeBringer
- Captain
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:25 am
Cohesion is OK...Troops are OK...Strength I guess (agianst 1400) is questionable.
But its more than likely that I use the ASSAULT button WAY too much,
I just DO NOT like to siege because the Union always brings a bully to the fight after I start one.
But its more than likely that I use the ASSAULT button WAY too much,
I just DO NOT like to siege because the Union always brings a bully to the fight after I start one.
The Good General looks to Win and then to Battle while the Poor General looks to Battle and Hopes to win.
Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu
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