arsan wrote:While Pocus fixes the thing with the 4 elements per zone fix...
Try using gamey tactic againts gamey tactic and try the rivering movement trick. I´m not sure at all, but i think it could work
Regards!
Pocus wrote:What is contestable is that a single ship (a gunboat) can patrol effectively a river over 100 kms. So the need of more elements. 4 seems fair...
I won't (and can't, I don't have historical facts) contest that even a single gunboat can prevent a regiment from crossing. Although I would find logical to have a division set some batteries on a river to protect the crossing of the soldiers. That is what I would do as a commander, if I knew a little crappy gunboat patrol the area to sink my barges
edit: if only from a gameplay purpose, I think an amendment should be done though.
Evren wrote:Hey Skibear,
There are some fellows out there who avoid using gamey tactics. Why don't you play with them instead?
Pocus wrote:What is contestable is that a single ship (a gunboat) can patrol effectively a river over 100 kms. So the need of more elements. 4 seems fair...
I won't (and can't, I don't have historical facts) contest that even a single gunboat can prevent a regiment from crossing. Although I would find logical to have a division set some batteries on a river to protect the crossing of the soldiers. That is what I would do as a commander, if I knew a little crappy gunboat patrol the area to sink my barges
edit: if only from a gameplay purpose, I think an amendment should be done though.
arsan wrote:So.. how about making gunboats able to impede crossing of rivers to stacks without guns but not to stacks with batteries they could set up to protect the crossing?
Maybe each gunboat element would need a battery element to be neutralized. So a normal gunboat unit (2 element) could impede crossing of raiders, an even small stacks like cavalry/inf+arty but not divisions, corps and the like.
If you manage to put 8 or 10 gunboat elements per river zone (a sizable fleet), only big corps will be able to force the crossing...
Sound good? Will it be too difficult to program?
Regards!
lodilefty wrote:..and keep in mind, that although a 'river area' may represent 20-30 miles, how many fords were actually useful? How many decent roads leading to fords? I don't think it's inconceivable that a 'gunboat' [which may actually be 2 boats or more' could patrol the stretch and inhibit crossings.....
inhibit, not prevent is the key word. Was the commander willing to try it? Is the crossing unopposed [opposite bank]? Can you even see the gunboats when you decide to go? Is the river in flood or low? Is it raining? How far have we marched to get here?
With all this: I'll 'vote' for: slow down the crossings, cause cohesion losses, and perhaps even force a leader to inactive after crossing..... [remember the old wargame rule: you could only cross a river if you started adjacent to it, and expended all your movement to cross]
AndrewKurtz wrote:I think you are getting closer. Some ratio of the number of elements to the number to batteries would seem to be good.
Skibear wrote:One of the principal problems here is the ease by which gunboats can push deep into enemy territory and effectively stop troops crossing bridges in there own town in which a divison is on the south bank and two divisions are on the north bank, and both are powerless to cross because of a single gunboat in each of the stretches of river. I havent got the map here at work, but its 240miles from decatur AL to Knoxville TN by road and probably further by river. At present 6 or 7 boats have that entire stretch totally locked down so that even if I control both side of a bridge with a division at each end then I cant cross except to march 3 months round.
Jabberwock wrote:Notes:
2. We haven't figured out a good way to represent Muscle Shoals (west of Decatur) on the map yet. Boats could sometimes get past there, but usually not (depending on the water level).
Jabberwock wrote:3. I'd guess about 20 usable fords/ferries/bridges between Decatur and Knoxville. Is that too many for a dozen gunboats to patrol?
LMUBill wrote: When the govt. founded TVA and put the headquarters in Knoxville the start of the Tennessee River was moved upstream to the junction of the Holston and French Broad rivers east of Knoxville because the TV people thought it odd that the headquarters of the TENNESSEE Valley Authority was not located on the Tennessee River.
Originally Posted by Jabberwock
Notes:
2. We haven't figured out a good way to represent Muscle Shoals (west of Decatur) on the map yet. Boats could sometimes get past there, but usually not (depending on the water level).
Evren wrote:Hey Skibear,
There are some fellows out there who avoid using gamey tactics. Why don't you play with them instead?
arsan wrote:So.. how about making gunboats able to impede crossing of rivers to stacks without guns but not to stacks with batteries they could set up to protect the crossing?
Maybe each gunboat element would need a battery element to be neutralized. So a normal gunboat unit (2 element) could impede crossing of raiders, an even small stacks like cavalry/inf+arty but not divisions, corps and the like.
If you manage to put 8 or 10 gunboat elements per river zone (a sizable fleet), only big corps will be able to force the crossing...
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