The Saga of Island Number 10 - Siege Working As Designed?

[elxaime]

In my current PBEM as Union, it is 1863 and I have had Island Number 10 under siege now for about six months straight. Its walls went down the first week and it has been without walls that whole time. I have had Union ironclad fleets of sufficient size blockading the Mississippi both up and down stream of the fort. I have held all territories on both sides of the river for that entire time. The besieging Union force is about twice the size of the besieged and includes a general with the siege ability and a siege gun. The Union divisions have four artillery each and are otherwise full strength. Island No. 10 has a defending general (Mouton) and a depot but I can see no way it is getting replenished with supplies. The defenders maintain a constant strength of 600-700 (the besiegers are 1400-1600). It may drop to 450 or so after one of the failed assaults, but it comes right back up afterwards.

Despite having no walls and no apparent outside supply, two Union corp-sized assaults have both been heavy defeats of the Yankees (with morale loss). Since the walls came down, nothing from winning the siege results roll except 5 hits or so a turn on the defenders (the Union wins the siege roll every turn). Other than bringing the entire Union army in the west into the region, not sure what else can be done.

At this rate, Island Number 10 will last not just until 1866, but 1966. Underneath the fort must be a Gate of Hades which provides unending supplies. We are not talking about just supplies to keep a skeleton crew alive. We are talking about supplies sufficient to feed and replenish a force that can beat off attacks from twice its size.

I understand it is on a swamp, forts are supposed to be hard to take, etc. But usually the counter to that is time. Historically, time has been the great leveler of fortifications under siege. You starve them out. But apparently not Island Number 10.

Anyone else having this experience with sieges? Where you have them completely isolated and with walls down for months and months and months on end and no surrender? Where lack of supplies from outside makes no difference?

[MarkCSA]

Yes, sieging can take forever, and I agree with you that if a Fort is besieged (even if it is connected to a waterway, Pickens / Monroe) it should just not receive extra supplies (as my besieging artillery should be able to blow any supply ship out of the water) and certainly not replacements for its units.

However in your case, the question becomes:

-How big is your artillery 'score' as compared to the defenders?
-What is the NM score for both sides

There's a Siege guide on the forum somewhere that explains why those two are significant.

[Captain_Orso]

If the besieging Union corp is entrenched at 3 or higher, push their Bombardment button and no supplies can traverse the river regions into which they can bombard.

Also, the rules say that for supply to traverse a land region that side must have at least 25% MC. From reports of other players it does not however include the target region (Island #10 in this case).

What patch level are you at? With 1.17 some improvements were implemented:

[INDENT]• Game Engine [updated to version 121010]
[INDENT].
.
◦ Siege improvements [supplementing rules added in version 1.07]
[INDENT]▪ Besieged forces will now take attrition hits every turn, in proportion of their number and how the siege roll went (anti overcrowding rule).
▪ If too many breaches accumulated, then a surrender roll is always possible (whatever the presence of a depot, super elite troops, etc.)
▪ Each breach will make the besieged consume an extra 5% of his normal supply usage. The purpose of this rule is that by upping the supply usage, you'll have more chances to have your supply depleted enough so that the depot (or supply wagon) can't provide its 'surrender protection' to the besieged force. For the rationale, just consider that the breaches are also making depots and stocks explode or be wasted, as you get shelled pretty heavily, etc...
▪ Fixed a bug where a lone sneaky leader could prevent a siege to happen, even if siege indicator was correctly shown
[/INDENT]
[/INDENT]
[/INDENT]

[MarkCSA]

Thanks Cap, I did not know that (about the bombardment button) !

[DrPostman]

At this rate, Island Number 10 will last not just until 1866, but 1966. Underneath the fort must be a Gate of Hades which provides unending supplies. We are not talking about just supplies to keep a skeleton crew alive. We are talking about supplies sufficient to feed and replenish a force that can beat off attacks from twice its size.

They's livin on catfish from the river

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I didn't think about using bombardment when besieging either.

[elxaime]

Thanks for the tip on the bombardment button.

As far as National Morale, it was about 110 CSA - 80 USA at the time. We are using the latest patch.

I had been under the impression that by fully blockading a river, you also prevented enemy river supply up that river? Or do you actually need to have a land force using the bombardment button? I didn't think to use the bombardment button but I did have full river interdiction.

Update: finally took Island No. 10 with a series of massed assaults at heavy losses. Waiting was simply not doing anything. I would have 8-10 breaches and nothing.

[DrPostman]

How many turns total did the siege last? I've seen them go on for a few months
before I started to see results. It also matters how much artillery and what type.
No siege artillery makes it tough, but not impossible.

[elxaime]

I had two divisional complements of Union artillery (8 units) plus two siege guns (although I understand their bonus doesn't stack). I also had a Union general with the siege bonus involved. The siege went on for roughly 10-12 turns during which time the place was surrounded by Union-held regions (100 percent MC) and ironclad fleets up and downstream of sufficient size to blockade. The CSA, in addition to his fort batteries, had put a coastal gun in there and I believe CSA General Mouton was the leader.

I had no trouble getting breaches. The place just wasn't starving. Must be the catfish in the river + the fact i didn't use the bombardment button.

[Captain_Orso]

You have to think about supply like thinking about a boat in water; if there is a hole somewhere--anywhere--the water will get through, even if it has to take a very round-about path.

Also, if you are playing against Athena (the AI) just load her side of the game an look at the situation in Island #10 or where ever. It's important to see the thing from the other side of the battlefield sometimes. Who knows what you might learn.

[DrPostman]

You have to think about supply like thinking about a boat in water; if there is a hole somewhere--anywhere--the water will get through, even if it has to take a very round-about path.

Also, if you are playing against Athena (the AI) just load her side of the game an look at the situation in Island #10 or where ever. It's important to see the thing from the other side of the battlefield sometimes. Who knows what you might learn.

I've done that several times now when faced with a very frustrating situation and it's been quite an
eye opening experience. I always discover something I didn't think of that obviously Athena did!

[elxaime]

Does Athena cheat on supply though? I know in some games the AI is allowed to do things players cannot.

[Captain_Orso]

Not that I know.

[DrPostman]

Does Athena cheat on supply though? I know in some games the AI is allowed to do things players cannot.

That's why being able to swaps sides is a great feature of this game. You can see what Athena has
been doing. As far as I can tell I have never seen her cheat or give advantages that one hasn't
set in the preferences already.

[Captain_Orso]

Athena does have a slight advantage in spotting (Detection); that is the only advantage that she has that I know of.

Through many games I could have sworn that she looked at my move before her minions plotted her own ,
but that's probably just paranoia on my part .