Old Bug

[rattler01]

Anyone remember where the post is of a bug where a bde missing INF elements would get ART elements because it had a L ART slot and the ART had upgraded from a 6 to 12 and so it was putting another L ART element in? I think it was talking about some elite brigade it too.

I don't think the thread with it started with that topic, it just took it over. Asking because my tourney game now as a bde with 3 ART elements and 2 INF elements and I'm pretty sure thats not right.

[lodilefty]

Please upload saved turn with that unit. I'll snoop the DB to see if there's a fix possible....

[rattler01]

Do you just need my turn file or the host files also? Because Longshanks has them with it being a tourney game.

[lodilefty]

need hst also, I think....

[rattler01]

Just Emailed longshanks to post them or if he wants to PM them to you with it being a tourney game.

[Longshanks]

I'll get this to you soon, LL, along with corrected files that I sent previously.

[Captain_Orso]

Anyone remember where the post is of a bug where a bde missing INF elements would get ART elements because it had a L ART slot and the ART had upgraded from a 6 to 12 and so it was putting another L ART element in? I think it was talking about some elite brigade it too.

I don't think the thread with it started with that topic, it just took it over. Asking because my tourney game now as a bde with 3 ART elements and 2 INF elements and I'm pretty sure thats not right.

Well, there is this one that I started Regimental losses not reported & Replacements are wrong There's another from like a year and a half ago that I started too . This is something that I learned then forgot that I learned it and learned that I forgot it and ... you get the picture

Basically when this happens, the unit model has a 6lb-er in it. The actual bde has not lost a battery, but the 6lb-er that it started with has upgraded to a 12lb-er, which means that in comparison to the model, the 6lb-er is missing. Now if an infantry regiment is lost from this bde the engine looks at what is missing. If the engine decides to replace the 'missing' 6lb-er (missing because it has changed to a 12lb-er), the bde now has the upgraded 12lb-er plus the new replacement 6lb-er which takes up the space for the actually missing infantry regiment. This is probably what has happened to your bde. If the bde actually has 3 batteries it might be the one CSA bde that has a 6lb-er and a 12lb-er in its model. Which bde is it?

[rattler01]

Its the V/1st bde USA, which I believe is one auto-generated with McDowell in Alexandria


@CPT O: Thank you for finding it.

[lodilefty]

I think this is a Catch-22:

Example:

• The unit is defined as 3Inf, 1 Lt Arty. Model families are set to same
• Build with a 6 lbr and 3 Inf
• If the unit loses an Inf after the Arty Upgrades, then AFAIK we have no control over which the engine puts in: Inf or LtArt
• If we define the Arty as Medium Family, then we could get a LtArty added if we're ever short an Inf.

Removing either LtArty or MedArty from replacement pool punishes either new units and Horse Art [LtArty] or old units [MedArty]

I suppose we could make the 6 lbrs Med Arty, but "dat don't feel good"

Lemme keep trying to think...

[Franciscus]

I suppose we could make the 6 lbrs Med Arty, but "dat don't feel good"

Lemme keep trying to think...

Well, those kind of "solutions" were frequent in NCP...not sure if it's good, but that's the way it is. One consequence is a mess in replacements, where some options - like getting light ART - seem logical but they are not, as most light ART in game is not defined as light in models...

(pst, lodi, is patch 1.16 not supposed to be final...? :love

[Captain_Orso]

Its the V/1st bde USA, which I believe is one auto-generated with McDowell in Alexandria


@CPT O: Thank you for finding it.

The V/1st Bde starts the game with a full compliment of regiments and batteries. The two that start understrength are the I/1st and I/2nd Bdes. But that doesn't make it impossible for the V/1st to twice get infantry regiments replaced by 6lb-er.

---

As I recall the entire situation came to a forefront when the 12lb-ers had their designation changed from light to medium artillery. Before that if a 6lb-er upgraded to a 12lb-er it would still be recognized as light artillery and replaced be replaced on loss with a 6lb-er. That is when these mis-replacements started getting noticed. But even if the 12lb-er were still designated a light artillery it does not address is the fact that 12lb-er can upgrade to 20lb-er, which are also medium artillery.

The only units in the game to build with more than one battery are the big, fat uni_CSA_Bde1VA consisting of the following:

ModelType0 = $mdl_CSA_Inf1|2
ModelType1 = $mdl_CSA_Inf2|1
ModelType2 = $mdl_CSA_Zou1|1
ModelType3 = $mdl_CSA_Art1|1 <- 6lb-er
ModelType4 = $mdl_CSA_Art2|1 <- 12lb-er
ModelType5 = $mdl_CSA_Cav1|1

There are no brigades defined with 20lb-ers, but they might get generated through upgrading. The game-engine-coding does not remember what model of battery was lost from a bde. Therefore any battery, 6-, 12- or 20lb-er lost will be replaced with a 6lb-er. The issue is actually that the bde migrates away from the standard model of a bde with a light artillery model.

A simple solution, were it possible, would be to have a separate class of artillery to which the 6-, 12- and 20lb-ers belonged, smooth-bores or short-range for example. Were the code then modified to look for how many smooth-bore batteries are in the bde, then it would replace missing batteries with the correct type. But if the code were to be changed for that it would probably be just as easy for it to check how many batteries of any type are in the bde and if any are missing have it replaced in the normal fashion, which would be with a 6lb-er, and that would be the simplest solution.

[Franciscus]

Code changes will not happen anymore, I am sure...

IMHO this is a minor annoyance, not a showstopper, that in the course of a full campaign will probably not even get noticed by most players

Regards

[Jim-NC]

The solution I use it to keep no light artillery replacements on hand unless I know I need it. The computer looks at what you have for replacements, and makes a decision based on that. Usually, I don't have enough inf replacements available right away (I am a bit of a spendthrift with my troops' pixels (er lives)), and thus if I have 0 inf, and 1 light art available, the engine places a light art in the brigade. If you start with a standard brigade of 2 inf and 1 art, and the art upgrades, then you lose 2 inf, you can get the situation of having 0 inf and 3 art in the brigade (if you have 2 light artillery replacements and 0 inf replacements).

I admit it's weird, but it is currently a game engine limitation.

[Captain_Orso]

Code changes will not happen anymore, I am sure...

IMHO this is a minor annoyance, not a showstopper, that in the course of a full campaign will probably not even get noticed by most players

Regards

Very true, but if one of the Devs were bored on the weekend and didn't know what to do with himself

The solution I use it to keep no light artillery replacements on hand unless I know I need it. The computer looks at what you have for replacements, and makes a decision based on that. Usually, I don't have enough inf replacements available right away (I am a bit of a spendthrift with my troops' pixels (er lives)), and thus if I have 0 inf, and 1 light art available, the engine places a light art in the brigade. If you start with a standard brigade of 2 inf and 1 art, and the art upgrades, then you lose 2 inf, you can get the situation of having 0 inf and 3 art in the brigade (if you have 2 light artillery replacements and 0 inf replacements).

I admit it's weird, but it is currently a game engine limitation.

Waht?!?! no replacements?!?! Sacrilege!! I always have at least 1 replacement in the pool even as the CSA and 2 if I can afford it at all, just in case. I only see the double battery bug pop up every now and again, but I hardly ever lose regiments anyway

[lodilefty]

The V/1st Bde starts the game with a full compliment of regiments and batteries. The two that start understrength are the I/1st and I/2nd Bdes. But that doesn't make it impossible for the V/1st to twice get infantry regiments replaced by 6lb-er.

---

As I recall the entire situation came to a forefront when the 12lb-ers had their designation changed from light to medium artillery. Before that if a 6lb-er upgraded to a 12lb-er it would still be recognized as light artillery and replaced be replaced on loss with a 6lb-er. That is when these mis-replacements started getting noticed. But even if the 12lb-er were still designated a light artillery it does not address is the fact that 12lb-er can upgrade to 20lb-er, which are also medium artillery.

The only units in the game to build with more than one battery are the big, fat uni_CSA_Bde1VA consisting of the following:

ModelType0 = $mdl_CSA_Inf1|2
ModelType1 = $mdl_CSA_Inf2|1
ModelType2 = $mdl_CSA_Zou1|1
ModelType3 = $mdl_CSA_Art1|1 <- 6lb-er
ModelType4 = $mdl_CSA_Art2|1 <- 12lb-er
ModelType5 = $mdl_CSA_Cav1|1

There are no brigades defined with 20lb-ers, but they might get generated through upgrading. The game-engine-coding does not remember what model of battery was lost from a bde. Therefore any battery, 6-, 12- or 20lb-er lost will be replaced with a 6lb-er. The issue is actually that the bde migrates away from the standard model of a bde with a light artillery model.

A simple solution, were it possible, would be to have a separate class of artillery to which the 6-, 12- and 20lb-ers belonged, smooth-bores or short-range for example. Were the code then modified to look for how many smooth-bore batteries are in the bde, then it would replace missing batteries with the correct type. But if the code were to be changed for that it would probably be just as easy for it to check how many batteries of any type are in the bde and if any are missing have it replaced in the normal fashion, which would be with a 6lb-er, and that would be the simplest solution.

FYI: 12 lbr do NOT upgrade to 20 lbr,, so a possibly good solution is to make the 12 lbr LtArty.

So 6 & 12 [Napoleons mostly] as well as Hose-pounce Arty would be LtArty,

10lb, 20lb, Columbiad, Rodman and Fort Arty = MedArty [please don't start the Columbiad Rodman debate again]

Siege and Coastal = HvyArty

[Jim-NC]

Waht?!?! no replacements?!?! Sacrilege!! I always have at least 1 replacement in the pool even as the CSA and 2 if I can afford it at all, just in case. I only see the double battery bug pop up every now and again, but I hardly ever lose regiments anyway

I don't keep any light artillery on hand (unless I know that I need it, like most if not all of 1861). As for the infantry, one good corps size assault usually removes any excessive infantry replacements I used to have (especially as the CSA). It's the way I play, I never have enough replacements

[Captain_Orso]

FYI: 12 lbr do NOT upgrade to 20 lbr,, so a possibly good solution is to make the 12 lbr LtArty.

So 6 & 12 [Napoleons mostly] as well as Hose-pounce Arty would be LtArty,

10lb, 20lb, Columbiad, Rodman and Fort Arty = MedArty [please don't start the Columbiad Rodman debate again]

Siege and Coastal = HvyArty

Oh yeah, well what about this one oke:

Code: Select all

SelectFaction = $USA
SelectRegion = $Prince George's, MD
StartEvent = evt_nam_USA_12lbArtillery_upgrade1|0|0|NULL|NULL|$Prince George's, MD|NULL

Conditions
  MinDate = 1862/01/01
  MaxDate = 1863/12/31

Actions
  SelectSubUnits = Models $mdl_USA_Art2
  AlterCuSubUnit = ApplyToList;probability 15;Model $mdl_USA_Art4;ChgCohesion 5

EndEvent


that fires from Early Jan. '62 thru Late Dec. '62 with a re-occurrence of .. eh .. 0






. . .

IIRC, for a change, the reason for changing the 12lb-er to medium artillery was so that it would take replacements from the field artillery replacement pool. Changing it back to light artillery would be going full circle

Gotta go, got a bug to report

[Franciscus]

IMHO if we are going now to change model types, we might have unforseen problems in the future, not the least of them players thinking (reasonably and how it was for the last few years) that 12lb are medium-type ART and then ordering useless med ART replacements...

I would leave things as they are and maybe leave such changes for a mod...

[lodilefty]

IMHO if we are going now to change model types, we might have unforseen problems in the future, not the least of them players thinking (reasonably and how it was for the last few years) that 12lb are medium-type ART and then ordering useless med ART replacements...

I would leave things as they are and maybe leave such changes for a mod...

Good answer!

Orso: Ah plumb fergit 'bout them upgrayed e-vents! Good point!

[Captain_Orso]

Loooodiiii oke:

ahm not so du-um lahk ah loo-ook

The short and not so sweat, the 12lb-ers still upgrade to 20lb-er in both the '62 campaigns: 1862 East Campaign.sct & 1862 West Campaign.sct, but couldn't find it elsewhere. Might be hidden in there with a really strange name.. I could look for the model, but I don't have time at the moment.

Code: Select all

SelectFaction = $USA
SelectRegion = $Prince George's, MD
StartEvent = evt_nam_USA_12lbArtillery_upgrade1|999|0|NULL|NULL|$Prince George's, MD|NULL

Conditions
  MinDate = 1862/01/01
  MaxDate = 1863/12/31

Actions
  SelectSubUnits = Models $mdl_USA_Art2
  AlterCuSubUnit = ApplyToList;probability 15;Model $mdl_USA_Art4;ChgCohesion 5

EndEvent


Code: Select all

SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Richmond, VA
StartEvent = evt_nam_CSA_12lbArtillery_upgrade|999|0|NULL|NULL|$Richmond, VA|NULL

Conditions
  MinDate = 1862/01/01

Actions
  SelectSubUnits = Models $mdl_CSA_Art2
  AlterCuSubUnit = ApplyToList;probability 10;Model $mdl_CSA_Art4;ChgCohesion 5

EndEvent


[Captain_Orso]

I searched through everything in the Events directory for "mdl_CSA_Art4" and "mdl_USA_Art4" and the events above are the only active events that I could find, so it's just in those 2 scenarios.

[lodilefty]

Easy to mod: in each StartEvent line, change 999 to 0 [zero]

[bigus]

Good Eye Captain_Orso!

The events have been deleted in the modded East and West scenarios.

[lodilefty]

Good Eye Captain_Orso!

The events have been deleted in the modded East and West scenarios.

...and in the same for next patch or QwikFix.....