Questions regarding Entrenchment

[dolphin]

I am noticing that at the Map Base of both my commanders and as well my Cities there is a little row of x8 small squares? At various times they display any number of boxes lit up green.

I was thinking that maybe they were an indication of entrenchment level, but I am really not positive and would like some confirmation on this.

If that is not what it is, then what is it and just as important how would you determine current entrenchment levels if that is not it?

I recall reading in another post something about if you are entrenched outside of a city that if you move your entire stack inside the city you lose your outside entrenchment and I would presume the reverse is true as well if this is in fact the case. Entrenched inside the town and then moving outside the City the entrenchment gets lost from inside the city as well? Of course dropping off one Brigade even if just a single element regiment will keep the entranchment intact allowing you time to regarrison your entrenchment?

Please verify; thanks in advance.

[deguerra]

Hi dolphin,

Not an expert but I think I can help with this.

The green boxes normally indicate strength, the more boxes the more strength. The colours indicate cohesion where green = good to red = bad.

If in supply mapmode, they indicate supply levels (via the boxes) and (I presume) whether they are in supply (via the colours).

Entrenchment level is shown when you select a stack along with the other various modifiers along the top of the stack screen (ie the top of the bottom toolbar, if you will, where you also find command penalties). The entrenchment level symbol is one of a jagged horizontal line.

Hope that helps.

[Cromagnonman]

You may also have noticed blue boxes that light up to the left; this indicates naval strength in the city.

To determine the entrenchment of units in the city, look in the bottom corner of the structure. This usually displays a smaller version of the equivalent entrenchment of units outside a structure. E.g., there'll be a little pile of abatis for level 3.

[Krec]

From the Manual:

[Jim-NC]

If you want to know the level of entrenchment of the enemy, see the below link. Especially post 32. The green dots mean units (a division counts as 1 unit, so does a single militia). It is an important distinction in the game.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=13811&highlight=entrenchment&page=2

[deguerra]

AH. I thought there was something off with the green dots the other day. I thought it might have been actual numbers of men rather than strength, but this explains it.

Thanks Jim!

[Cromagnonman]

Yes, units indeed, my bad. Makes intel really important for assaulting towns.

[Johnny Reb]

[quote="Jim-NC"]If you want to know the level of entrenchment of the enemy, see the below link. Especially post 32. The green dots mean units (a division counts as 1 unit, so does a single militia). It is an important distinction in the game.

Thanks Jim. That is very helpful.

[Johnny Reb]

If you want to know the level of entrenchment of the enemy, see the below link. Especially post 32. The green dots mean units (a division counts as 1 unit, so does a single militia). It is an important distinction in the game.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=13811&highlight=entrenchment&page=2

Thanks Jim. That is very helpful.

[dolphin]

Thanks for all the answers. It helped explain quite a few things I was troubling over.

[Jim-NC]

Thanks Jim. That is very helpful.

Your welcome.

[dolphin]

Your welcome.

Maybe you can help with these questions too...


1) What seems to be the formula in terms of Attack Strength vs. Defence Strength RATIO required to pull off a successful assault?

Is it 3 to 1, or 5 to 1, or 10 to 1?


2) Given that you have the required numerical superiority to pull off a successful assault how does the Cities Defence factor in and how important is it to reduce it through siege before an assault. Another way of putting it is to ask how much more of a numerical advantage would you need to do the Assault without reducing the ciity bonus through siege first.

3) Is the Defence bonus for being in a town in addition to any entrenchment bonus, or are they the same. In other words if you siege your opponant and you finally achieve the tool tip and map icon that says the attacker has achieved a total breach and the defender gets no bonus does that negate the defenders entrenchment level bonuses too?

4) One of the advantages of holding up inside a city is the defence bonus, but a more important advantage as I understand it is that you can have your units set to Defence and on Hold at all Cost, but you still regain cohesion with a massive bonus as though you were set on PASSIVE (Green). I am asking for verification that I am correct on this.

5) Regarding a siege and starving out your enemy I am still a little muddled on how to insure it is working. I assume it has to do with causing the enemy inside to run out of supplies. Can this even be done if the enemy is holed up in a town with either a Harbor, or a Depot? I am aware that a river/ocean region does have a blockade requirement for this situation and I presume if you do not satisfy it the city under siege will continue to get supplies and replacements normally.

To put question 5 another way.

My current thinking is that if your holed up in a town with a Harbor, or a Depot not only can you get supplies, but you can also get reenforcements which makes a siege near impossible without overwhelming numbers for an assault even if you have reduced the defensive town bonus. Please clarify and verify my thoughts on this issue.


6) Question 6 should be easy. To get replacements as I understand it you need to have your damaged brigades stationed in a region that has a Level 3 City, Harbor, or a Depot. I know you get replacements in level 3 cities and ones with harbors, but I am not sure about a depot allowing reenforcements to get through. I presume you merely need to be in the region and not inside the structure in order to recieve your replacements.

7) Could someone explain the SORTY option and when it would be appropriate to use it in cases where your inside a structure and under siege.


8) The Confederate General J.Jhonston has the "Good Army Administrator" trait which adds a +15% to the Fatigue Recovery Rate.

The "FIELD HOSPITALS" add +15% to the Cohesion Recovery Rate.


Is this a kind of misprint, or are there actually x2 different ratings?

I am well familiar with Cohesion, but cannot recall seeing any ratings for Fatigue.

If there are two seperate ratings then how do you determine current levels of Fatigue for your brigades and where can you read up on the effects and recovery parameters?

If they are both the same thing, but just labeled differently does the Trait Bonus add to the Field Hospital bonus, or does only one of them count?

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

Maybe you can help with these questions too...


1) What seems to be the formula in terms of Attack Strength vs. Defence Strength RATIO required to pull off a successful assault?

Is it 3 to 1, or 5 to 1, or 10 to 1?

[color="Red"]Depends on the enemy entrenchment, Leader ratings, Weather, and a bunch of other things. If everything is in your favor, a 2-1 power advantage or even less can successfully assult. If they're dug in to their necks with a good leader it can take 6 or 8 to 1.[/color]

2) Given that you have the required numerical superiority to pull off a successful assault how does the Cities Defence factor in and how important is it to reduce it through siege before an assault. Another way of putting it is to ask how much more of a numerical advantage would you need to do the Assault without reducing the ciity bonus through siege first.

[color="Red"]The above is considering you breached the structure first. Without breaching I'd go with 8-1 or so. Again, there's alot of factors involved.[/color]

3) Is the Defence bonus for being in a town in addition to any entrenchment bonus, or are they the same. In other words if you siege your opponant and you finally achieve the tool tip and map icon that says the attacker has achieved a total breach and the defender gets no bonus does that negate the defenders entrenchment level bonuses too?

[color="Red"]I'd like to know this as well. I just did an assault after total breach and it said they had 300 entrenchment still, so I think it's in addition.[/color]

4) One of the advantages of holding up inside a city is the defence bonus, but a more important advantage as I understand it is that you can have your units set to Defence and on Hold at all Cost, but you still regain cohesion with a massive bonus as though you were set on PASSIVE (Green). I am asking for verification that I am correct on this.

[color="Red"]Never heard of this. Hold at all costs can be useful though.[/color]

5) Regarding a siege and starving out your enemy I am still a little muddled on how to insure it is working. I assume it has to do with causing the enemy inside to run out of supplies. Can this even be done if the enemy is holed up in a town with either a Harbor, or a Depot? I am aware that a river/ocean region does have a blockade requirement for this situation and I presume if you do not satisfy it the city under siege will continue to get supplies and replacements normally.

To put question 5 another way.

My current thinking is that if your holed up in a town with a Harbor, or a Depot not only can you get supplies, but you can also get reenforcements which makes a siege near impossible without overwhelming numbers for an assault even if you have reduced the defensive town bonus. Please clarify and verify my thoughts on this issue.

[color="Red"]You can still starve most garrisons out if they have a harbor, you just need to blockade the harbor as well. Although, the defenders were starving in the assault I mentioned previously. It was in Alexandria though so they should have had river access. Not sure what happened. You cant get reinforcements if you are under siege so you don't have to worry about that. [/color]

6) Question 6 should be easy. To get replacements as I understand it you need to have your damaged brigades stationed in a region that has a Level 3 City, Harbor, or a Depot. I know you get replacements in level 3 cities and ones with harbors, but I am not sure about a depot allowing reenforcements to get through. I presume you merely need to be in the region and not inside the structure in order to recieve your replacements.

[color="Red"]You can be outside the structure[/color]

7) Could someone explain the SORTY option and when it would be appropriate to use it in cases where your inside a structure and under siege.

[color="Red"]Use sorty when your relief force is approaching on that turn. They will join the fight when it happens.[/color]


8) The Confederate General J.Jhonston has the "Good Army Administrator" trait which adds a +15% to the Fatigue Recovery Rate.

The "FIELD HOSPITALS" add +15% to the Cohesion Recovery Rate.


Is this a kind of misprint, or are there actually x2 different ratings?

I am well familiar with Cohesion, but cannot recall seeing any ratings for Fatigue.

If there are two seperate ratings then how do you determine current levels of Fatigue for your brigades and where can you read up on the effects and recovery parameters?

If they are both the same thing, but just labeled differently does the Trait Bonus add to the Field Hospital bonus, or does only one of them count?

[color="Red"]I believe they are the same. They should also both stack as far as I know.[/color]

Hope that helps.

[Cromagnonman]

Regarding #4, cohesion is regained most quickly within a structure; the stance does not matter. So, yes, you can hide out in your town and keep a better cohesion than your beseiger. Never heard of the second row of buttons (all costs thru feint) making a diffrence to cohesion one way or t'other; it just affects how eager your stack is to retreat.

[Mickey3D]

Fatigue = cohesion.

Another advantage of being in a structure : frontage. Your opponent won't be able to engage all his force at the same time against yours because there isn't enough space on the frontline.

[dolphin]

Hope that helps.

Use sorty when your relief force is approaching on that turn. They will join the fight when it happens.

Thanks for your answers.

Clarification about SORTY.

Is what your saying then that a unit inside a structure with the SORTY option turned on will not do anything unless and until a relief force arrives?

In other words there is no chance it will SORTY by itself?

That would be great and be just what I was hoping it was.

[dolphin]

Fatigue = cohesion.

Another advantage of being in a structure : frontage. Your opponent won't be able to engage all his force at the same time against yours because there isn't enough space on the frontline.

Do the Trait Bonus and the Field Hospital bonus combine, or does only one of them count?


I presume you can only gain one bonus if you have x2 Hospitals in the same stack, or maybe I am wrong there too.

[dolphin]

Never heard of the second row of buttons (all costs thru feint) making a diffrence to cohesion one way or t'other; it just affects how eager your stack is to retreat.

If you are in a structure retreat is not an option. I was under the presumption that if you lose a battle while in a structure your stack is completely eliminated along with any leaders that were inside.

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

Thanks for your answers.

Clarification about SORTY.

Is what your saying then that a unit inside a structure with the SORTY option turned on will not do anything unless and until a relief force arrives?

In other words there is no chance it will SORTY by itself?

That would be great and be just what I was hoping it was.

Yes, this is my understanding.

[Cromagnonman]

If you are in a structure retreat is not an option. I was under the presumption that if you lose a battle while in a structure your stack is completely eliminated along with any leaders that were inside.

Sure, but I rarely have my units recover inside a structure (I see them as traps, mostly, to be used against Athena). Outside, I don't think your retreat settings affect your cohesion recovery.