stegosarus_army
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IS PGT secretly pro-Union?

Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:18 am

I know i've been here with this issue, but i think that PGT is secretly wants the Union to win by holding back his army so that the march to richmond can be easily accomplished.
In my current 1.13b game( medium, medium FOW, activation +1) I marched to Richmond, unapposed and began seige by turn 10. PGT not once marched to meet me. Instead he stayed focused on Butler. How is the game supposed to be a challenge when PGT's army is always focused on Butler and always leads the road open to richmond. Should i just max out all ai settings or just play as confederates?

i think PGT should at least be locked around manassass, or just remove butler.

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Gray_Lensman
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:45 am

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stegosarus_army
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:53 am

See, you're focused on Butler. Thats how the CSA AI tends to be when playing as the Union.
I dont have a problem with butler being there historically or with AGEOD striving to stay historically accurate. My problem is that PGT's army (with 3 green unit rectangles) tends to be focused on Butler even when you're marching to Richmond with a large Union army. The only thing i said about playing as the CSA was asking if i should play as them instead.


wow, seems butler seems to be a sensitive subject, since it seems that the very notion of removing him brings an angry response.
sorry i wont post about the AI anymore

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Gray_Lensman
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:42 am

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Clovis
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:48 am

stegosarus_army wrote:I know i've been here with this issue, but i think that PGT is secretly wants the Union to win by holding back his army so that the march to richmond can be easily accomplished.
In my current 1.13b game( medium, medium FOW, activation +1) I marched to Richmond, unapposed and began seige by turn 10. PGT not once marched to meet me. Instead he stayed focused on Butler. How is the game supposed to be a challenge when PGT's army is always focused on Butler and always leads the road open to richmond. Should i just max out all ai settings or just play as confederates?

i think PGT should at least be locked around manassass, or just remove butler.


CSA AI has indeed in the vanilla version an obsession to ft Monroe. i solved this in SVF by several changes to the AI.
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Comtedemeighan
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:28 am

i think PGT should at least be locked around manassass, or just remove butler.


You can't remove "Spoons" Butler because he was the commander in that area he fought Gentleman Johnny Magruder at the battle of Big Bethel June 10 1861
Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem - By the Sword We Seek Peace, But Peace Only Under Liberty
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Le Ricain
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:02 pm

Comtedemeighan wrote:You can't remove "Spoons" Butler because he was the commander in that area he fought Gentleman Johnny Magruder at the battle of Big Bethel June 10 1861


I started the Generals' nicknames threads in the History Club forum and therefore always have an eye out for a nickname. Is 'Gentleman Johnny' Magruder a real nick for 'Prince John'? If so, then I will include it in the list.
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Heldenkaiser
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:06 pm

Le Ricain wrote:I started the Generals' nicknames threads in the History Club forum and therefore always have an eye out for a nickname. Is 'Gentleman Johnny' Magruder a real nick for 'Prince John'? If so, then I will include it in the list.


I would be surprised. The real "Gentleman Johnny" is of course John Burgoyne of Saratoga fame. :cool:
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Franciscus
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:04 pm

Thread drifting offtopic. The real concern of the original poster has not been answered - namely, poor CSA AI in the early defense of Richmond.

I cannot help much, as I allways play as CSA :D . Maybe you should really try Clovis's mod. I think he has done wonders with CSA AI (again, I have not really tried it, because I am waiting for Clovis to finnaly give the go to a goood USA AI in his mod)

Regards

stegosarus_army
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:45 pm

Im as much of a grognard as the next guy and once i finish up my BS degree next year, i plan on getting a master's degree in military history. so me not wanting to be historically accurate, is out of the question.

i dont know if this would help, b/c im no AI guy, but would changing butler's seniority change the priority upon which the AI places on selecting him? It just seems that the highest priority for AI, with respect to selecting targets seems to be based on seniority and if Butler was a lower seniority, then maybe PGT would focus on MCdowell who has a lower seniority but a larger army than Butler.

Where is Clovis's mod at? I think i might try it out

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Franciscus
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:00 pm


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Clovis
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:14 pm

stegosarus_army wrote:Im as much of a grognard as the next guy and once i finish up my BS degree next year, i plan on getting a master's degree in military history. so me not wanting to be historically accurate, is out of the question.

i dont know if this would help, b/c im no AI guy, but would changing butler's seniority change the priority upon which the AI places on selecting him? It just seems that the highest priority for AI, with respect to selecting targets seems to be based on seniority and if Butler was a lower seniority, then maybe PGT would focus on MCdowell who has a lower seniority but a larger army than Butler.

Where is Clovis's mod at? I think i might try it out


No. AI is thinking about threaths and territorial objectives. It doesn't care about enemy seniority.

Like any AI, it has difficulty to place more priority on th=reats than on objectives. In Vanilla, Ft Monroe is an objective with a weak defense, Alexandria isn't an objective and the enemy force is more powerful. So the AI deduces it maty smash the small force on the objective, rather than attacking the larger force for no VP gain.
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Clovis
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:10 pm

Franciscus wrote:Thread drifting offtopic. The real concern of the original poster has not been answered - namely, poor CSA AI in the early defense of Richmond.

I cannot help much, as I allways play as CSA :D . Maybe you should really try Clovis's mod. I think he has done wonders with CSA AI (again, I have not really tried it, because I am waiting for Clovis to finnaly give the go to a goood USA AI in his mod)

Regards


For the US AI, i'm waiting AACW evolution to be (almost) fully achieved. i feel the major rule changes are now made and only minor tweaks will come. Working on an AI with changing rules is difficult and I've had several times the disagrement to start again the work on CSA AI.

What would help me would be a list of blunders made by union AI in the vanilla 1.13.
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ghostlight
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:20 pm

Clovis wrote:No. AI is thinking about threaths and territorial objectives. It doesn't care about enemy seniority.

Like any AI, it has difficulty to place more priority on th=reats than on objectives. In Vanilla, Ft Monroe is an objective with a weak defense, Alexandria isn't an objective and the enemy force is more powerful. So the AI deduces it maty smash the small force on the objective, rather than attacking the larger force for no VP gain.


exactly. the ai has been given non-historical priorities and objectives so responds accordingly. its effectiveness otherwise tho is surprisingly good. clovis, great work on remedying this for the csa ai. lookong forward to a final version of the union ai as well :)

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Chaplain Lovejoy
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:38 pm

Like any AI, it has difficulty to place more priority on threats than on objectives.


That's been my experience playing USA against AI. When threatening Richmond, the defense was ho-hum. After capturing Richmond, the AI really, really wanted it back; it had become an objective.

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Comtedemeighan
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:07 am

Le Ricain wrote:I started the Generals' nicknames threads in the History Club forum and therefore always have an eye out for a nickname. Is 'Gentleman Johnny' Magruder a real nick for 'Prince John'? If so, then I will include it in the list.

Sorry HeldenKaiser is right Prince John is his nickname not gentleman Johnny he is correct Gentleman Johnny is of course John Burgoyne :)
Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem - By the Sword We Seek Peace, But Peace Only Under Liberty

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"The army is the true nobility of our country."

-Napoleon III-

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Clovis
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:14 pm

Franciscus wrote:Thread drifting offtopic. The real concern of the original poster has not been answered - namely, poor CSA AI in the early defense of Richmond.

I cannot help much, as I allways play as CSA :D . Maybe you should really try Clovis's mod. I think he has done wonders with CSA AI (again, I have not really tried it, because I am waiting for Clovis to finnaly give the go to a goood USA AI in his mod)

Regards


Work about is progressing behind the scene, slowly because of a lack of feedback which would save me time to adress most glaring shortcomings. For now, I solved the Union AI tendancy to build too much militia, I gave it some little helps here and there to get armies, suffuicient WSU and conscripts to wage the war with numerical superiority.

Remains the rest: amphibious moves, use of naval and fluvial assets, land objective choices, leader use...A truly giant task, far more difficult than for CSA AI as Union has to wage offensives...
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tagwyn
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Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:51 am

That was "Prince" John Magruder, not Gentlemen Johnny. t

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