---> AACW Patch 1.10b release

[Inside686]

I guess I'm going crazy, I checked the first page 5 min ago and there was nothing about 1.10a Thank you

[Crimguy]

I guess I'm going crazy, I checked the first page 5 min ago and there was nothing about 1.10a Thank you

The thread is still 1.10. Hasn't received a new thread.

[bk6583]

[/code][HTML]

About the AI, I'll check her over agressivity, but if you can send me (unmodded) saved game with precise example of a too bold offensive, this would speed up the process. And more speed, more fixes

[/HTML]

I'll try to remember to do that tonight. Jun 1862 as Union - had I believe PT Beuargard (sp) with a about a 1000 point strong corps come out of nowhere, go through Grafton (I had a garrison inside, nothing outside) and head straight for Wheeling. Put me in a bit of a panic but quickly moved forces to surround and engage - he's just about done in. Then another general with a 45 point strength unit makes a beeline for Cleveland and takes it (just had a dinky militia unit there) - got him nailed down too except the Union unit won't activate. Inspite of gunboats blocking the river around Cairo, had another very strong CSA corps cross and besiege it - have him nailed too with Grant. Lastly, inspite of an entrenchement level of 5, have a Union corps in Alexandria that's been attacked 3 times over a 6 turn period - each time the CSA getting much the worst of it. These "gifts" Athena is giving me may end this game in early '64.

[Pocus]

ok, remind me precisely of each erroneous action in the mail, we can start with the last one perhaps (give me for example the turn of the suicide attack and then the previous turn, backup1)

[bk6583]

[HTML][/HTML]

ok, remind me precisely of each erroneous action in the mail, we can start with the last one perhaps (give me for example the turn of the suicide attack and then the previous turn, backup1)

Hi Pocus,

I Hope Iattached the right files to help you. The most recent turn is Union, 1862, late July. I attached (or will in follow on posts) Backups 1-3 also. Specifically,

P.G.T. Beauregrad has just been eliminated in Wheeling (he had a large corps).

J. Johnston is sitting at Clevelend.

L. Polk is at Evansville (ok - maybe that's not too deep).

B. Bragg is at Cairo (I reduced the naval settings number from 4 to 1 to stop enemy movement across rivers - yet Bragg made it there).

Felix Zolliafer (sp) is sitting at Sandusky City.

As I said in a previous post, I've played a fair number of Union camapigns (this one was started under 1.10a) and have never seen this much CSA activity North. I have the aggressiveness set to Normal with I believe the intel set at above normal.

R/

Bob

[mikee64]

Originally Posted by Paul Roberts
On claims of foolhardy AI aggression: I'm just not seeing it.

Today I started a 1.10a game against the Union AI. My settings are:

normal difficulty
two notches of AI FOW advantage (which makes the computer play *much* more intelligently)
historical attrition for everyone
normal AI aggression
+1 AI activation bonus

I'm only up to November 1861, but the AI has been playing smart, seizing objectives and massing against me appropriately. My Shenandoah Corps has been playing cat-and-mouse in the valleys after being pushed out of Harper's Ferry and then Winchester by McDowell. It's probably telling that I have actually taken more casualties than the AI at this point.

I'll keep looking for signs of madness, but none so far.

Me, either. Game is playing very nicely and pretty smart ... I, too, am playing as the CSA, so, maybe this all affects the CSA AI more? The Union AI is vastly improved as far as I can see. Could it be better? Of course, but I am just not experiencing all that much in the way of suicide-stuff.

Get it to sustain incursions into the deep south via ports, and I'll be in Hog Heaven!

I must echo and second the above two posts. I'm playing on the same settings as Paul except I am only giving the AI one notch of FOW advantage, and using historical attrition for the player only. No mods. Athena as the north is playing great! And this coming from someone who only played pbem back last year because of AI performance issues.

If you haven't tried the south with these settings I'd highly suggest it.

[StatboyVT]

I must echo and second the above two posts. I'm playing on the same settings as Paul except I am only giving the AI one notch of FOW advantage, and using historical attrition for the player only. No mods. Athena as the north is playing great! And this coming from someone who only played pbem back last year because of AI performance issues.

If you haven't tried the south with these settings I'd highly suggest it.

It seems to me that only the Southern AI is affected in a negative way. I tried a game as the Union last night, and in the middle of July Joe Johnston was already on his way to Harrisonburg. He was wiped out, naturally. Later on, E.K. Smith decided to March to New York with 1 brigade and lay siege to a small town with no VP. Didn't catch him though. He marched down to the Delaware Bay, hopped on a boat, and sat off the coast of Delaware for 2 months without moving.

In the West, it's insanely easy. The Southern forces are just running around with seemingly no objective. At most, they are massing two brigades together. 5 or 6 of these armies are marching through Kentucky, not doing much at all. Where's their main western army? Why it's down at Fort Pickens under Bragg. 25,000 troops assaulting that fort for a few turns in a row, while I'm taking over Kentucky and about to take Island #10 and Fort Donelson.

Also in the East, PGT Beauregard is going after Ft. Monroe while everyone else invades the North in pieces. As a result, the Manassas/Fredericksburg/Richmond route is wide open. I could probably go down and take Richmond with one division since the South is sending all their forces up North to starve to death in the middle of nowhere.

That's on medium difficulty, LOW aggressiveness, NO FOW advantage, and a +1 activation bonus.

I've generally only played as the South in the past. But lately I've really wanted to play as the Union, just for the pleasure of being able to build huge armies and a massive riverboat fleet. I've never seen that side of the game because I've always played as the South, but the urge hit me. Unfortunately, because of the suicidal tactics of the Southern forces, it seems that playing as the Union is completely unplayable.

I just ended up deleting that game. I'm gonna start a new one as the South to see what happens.

[Clovis]

I've tried ( with my mod) with low aggresivity setting, medium FOW advantage for the CSA AI. I removed some VO locations .

South is less aggressive but AI is taking offensive against Cairo, Fort Pickens and Beauregard would be besieging Monroe if not incepted by Mcdowell at Manassas ( battle lost by Union). Last a very small force assaulted Pittsburgh, well defended with unavoidable results.

So, even with these settings, CSA AI is doing offensive. I can live with that,( and for now no "crazy moves" I got with normal aggr. setting), but not on settings created for giving AI a defensive inclination. CSA hasn't North wealth and currently AI has lost much more men than Union...In the 1.09 my mod had inverse results for losses, AI cared much for protecting Richmond.

Now, this behaviour is much more profitable for Union AI. But I persist to think it's now a little too much for CSA side.

[Paul Roberts]

(...)

That's on medium difficulty, LOW aggressiveness, NO FOW advantage, and a +1 activation bonus.

(...)

I think your settings are part of the problem. The "No FOW advantage" is the real handicap. Unlike you, the AI has no memory for what it has seen in the past--it can only read the situation as it stands at the start of each turn. Giving the AI a one-notch or two-notch advantage simulates its ability to know what's going on behind the front lines, just as a human has a pretty good intuition (aided by patterns of previous turns) of what the AI is up to. I'm playing with two notches of AI FOW advantage right now, and the AI just seems much, much smarter this time.

I've never played on Low aggressiveness, but maybe it is causing the AI to fail to mass its forces. Perhaps Pocus could comment.

It's also true that I have not played as Union with recent patches. My next game will be against CSA AI with the settings I'm already using.

[Paul Roberts]

On claims of foolhardy AI aggression: I'm just not seeing it.

Today I started a 1.10a game against the Union AI. My settings are:

normal difficulty
two notches of AI FOW advantage (which makes the computer play *much* more intelligently)
historical attrition for everyone
normal AI aggression
+1 AI activation bonus

I'm only up to November 1861, but the AI has been playing smart, seizing objectives and massing against me appropriately. My Shenandoah Corps has been playing cat-and-mouse in the valleys after being pushed out of Harper's Ferry and then Winchester by McDowell. It's probably telling that I have actually taken more casualties than the AI at this point.

I'll keep looking for signs of madness, but none so far.

Campaign Update. This game is now up to August 1862.

In the East (in early spring 1862), McDowell launched an attack that nearly reached Richmond, but he pulled back to Manassas after the CSA armies held the line just north of the Southern capital. The Union forces came close enough to activate RE Lee early, however, and after the Union retreat I took some time to organize the Army of Northern Virginia. (Lee as Army commander, Johnston and Jackson as Corps commanders. Beauregard has been sent west to be serve as commander of a strong Corps of the Army of Tennessee.)

In early summer 1862 the ANV moved back north, fighting a series of "2nd Manassas" style battles south of the Potomac. Union forces were run off but at a high cost of Southern cohesion. The Army of Northern Virginia is now regrouping at Manassas, while Northern armies (still under McDowell's overall command) eye them warily from the Virginia border.

In the West, the Army of Tennessee has gradually grown in strength, fighting a number of skirmishes but no major battles through the spring and summer of 1862. In July Beauregard's Corps successfully sieged Bowling Green, KY.

However, the main AI Union effort seems to be aimed at a Grant-style Mississippi River campaign. While the bulk of the Army of Tennessee has been involved in Kentucky, only Polk's small Corps has stood watch on the Mississippi as more and more Union forces mass in the area of Cairo. Now, in the summer of 1862, those Union forces have begun moving south on both sides of the Mississippi. Forward probes have already reached Memphis while Polk acts as a "fire brigade" in western Tennessee.

In short, I'm impressed with what I'm seeing from the Union AI, not least because it seems to be playing a very historical (although not predictably so) game. I certainly haven't seen it acting foolhardy or sacrificial, and it produces the impression of a smart commander on the other side of the screen.

(And one more note: This is the first campaign I've played with a strict policy of "no reloads." What happens, happens, and I have promised myself never to re-try an attack or a turn because I didn't like the results. Needless to say, this makes all the difference in producing a tense, exciting, enjoyable match against the computer.)

[tagwyn]

Pocus: Hurray!! You have just about got it perfect. You and Phil are amazing! T

[StatboyVT]

I think your settings are part of the problem. The "No FOW advantage" is the real handicap. Unlike you, the AI has no memory for what it has seen in the past--it can only read the situation as it stands at the start of each turn. Giving the AI a one-notch or two-notch advantage simulates its ability to know what's going on behind the front lines, just as a human has a pretty good intuition (aided by patterns of previous turns) of what the AI is up to. I'm playing with two notches of AI FOW advantage right now, and the AI just seems much, much smarter this time.

I've never played on Low aggressiveness, but maybe it is causing the AI to fail to mass its forces. Perhaps Pocus could comment.

It's also true that I have not played as Union with recent patches. My next game will be against CSA AI with the settings I'm already using.

I've played with several different settings, including giving the AI a FOW advantage. Same result.

But like I said, most of the problems are with the Confederate AI when playing with the Union. It's not nearly as bad when I'm the South playing against the North. My only problem when I'm playing as the South is that the AI ignores winter. The main Federal Army in Virginia just sat outside of Lynchburg in the middle of nowhere for three months. Through the dead of winter. When spring came, and it's cohesion was down to nothing, I went over with the Army of NV and destroyed what was left of it. Where the heck was it going in the first place? Raleigh? Charleston?

That was with low aggressiveness, a +1 activation advantage, and a two-notch FOW advantage. I've been experimenting with a lot of different settings lately, and they all seem to lead to pretty much the same result.

The Union AI is much better in that they are more aggressive. However, sitting in an empty region for the entire winter with 90,000 men completely destroys the experience and makes it unplayable. In the spring, you just go over and wipe them out. I've had that problem in the East and in the West.

Also, one other minor quibble. I trapped the entire Army of the Tennessee under McClellan at Ft. Donelson. He came down to attack, and I ended up destroying his entire 20,000 man army. The whole thing. Every man killed or captured. I had no more than 15,000 men in the region. Some in the fort, most in a couple of divisions under the overall command of Hardee.

So if you count the 90,000 Union soldiers freezing to death standing in the woods in Virginia, that's two Federal armies completely wiped out in less than one year.

[berto]

Although it might change from patch version to patch version, maybe the options screen or perhaps a tooltip might recommend the combination of options that--by consensus opinion--seems to give (a) the most competitive AI opponent and/or (b) the most historical gameplay.

Just some in-game recommendation (again tailored to the current patch version) so that players don't have to wade through pages and pages of Forum posts to glean the best combination of options settings.

Pocus et al: Do you have any estimates as to how many of your customers frequent these fora?

If most of your customers just buy the game (and maybe download the latest patch, no more) and never visit the AACW Forum, with the wrong defaults, or misguidedly/uninformedly choosing the "wrong" options settings, they might get a subpar game experience and write the whole thing off prematurely.

Also: It is quite possible that the options combo that works best for the Union (human player Union, AI player Confederacy) differs from the best combo for the Confederates (vice versa). That, too, should be clarified.

Just some thoughts...

[veji1]

the winter thing is really an issue I have been through as well. It should be hardcoded that in Winter the Armies go back to the nearest supplied enough structure and lay there prioritarely VP locations so that they can defend them.

I had a very good beginning of the Game wiht the Union AI under 1.10 (with the leader mod) : It attacked me in Virginia, when for Hapers Ferry in 1861 while Beauregard was in Manassas and I did not dare move him : result it crushed Johnson who retreated to Manassas to Regroup : Then it attacked Manassas with overwhelming force and I had to fall back behind the Rappahanock.

It attacked in winter in Fredericksburg and I was so Weak that it drove me out an I had to retreat back to Richmond. It kept pressuring me during the winter, which must have hurt its cohesion, but I was so battered i just manage to hold my own around Richmond by Achieving quit historical results (I would win losing 9 000 and them 12 000, etc..)

Then Mcclellan did something stupid... in late january instead of Falling back to Fredericksburg as his assault on the capital failed he followed through to Petersburg and NC... I was quite happy to let him rampage there, regrouped and organised another army with Lee to chase him around and defeat him and eventually destroying him by april...

Now i am going to take it slowly back to Manassas, just for the sake of the game, But I am almost sure I could march straight to Washington and crush the AI before it has reorganised an army...

My point here is that : 1/ Recklessnes + winter is a deadly combination for the AI. You should almost have 2 Ai files, one for the fighting season and one for December to March in which it stays put around cities and depots and VPS...

[StatboyVT]

the winter thing is really an issue I have been through as well. It should be hardcoded that in Winter the Armies go back to the nearest supplied enough structure and lay there prioritarely VP locations so that they can defend them.

I had a very good beginning of the Game wiht the Union AI under 1.10 (with the leader mod) : It attacked me in Virginia, when for Hapers Ferry in 1861 while Beauregard was in Manassas and I did not dare move him : result it crushed Johnson who retreated to Manassas to Regroup : Then it attacked Manassas with overwhelming force and I had to fall back behind the Rappahanock.

It attacked in winter in Fredericksburg and I was so Weak that it drove me out an I had to retreat back to Richmond. It kept pressuring me during the winter, which must have hurt its cohesion, but I was so battered i just manage to hold my own around Richmond by Achieving quit historical results (I would win losing 9 000 and them 12 000, etc..)

Then Mcclellan did something stupid... in late january instead of Falling back to Fredericksburg as his assault on the capital failed he followed through to Petersburg and NC... I was quite happy to let him rampage there, regrouped and organised another army with Lee to chase him around and defeat him and eventually destroying him by april...

Now i am going to take it slowly back to Manassas, just for the sake of the game, But I am almost sure I could march straight to Washington and crush the AI before it has reorganised an army...

My point here is that : 1/ Recklessnes + winter is a deadly combination for the AI. You should almost have 2 Ai files, one for the fighting season and one for December to March in which it stays put around cities and depots and VPS...

Ok, glad that somebody is seeing the same thing. I agree, the campaigning in 1861 is great, when you are playing as the Confederacy. But then the Yankee armies just sit there during the winter and freeze/starve to death, and are easily destroyed in the spring.

[mikee64]

I have not seen this suicidal AI winter behavior in my current 1.10a game in either VA or the west. (I've only played one, no restarts for me.) In fact in VA the northern army pulled all the way back to Washington in late December/January. Even though I thought she had a very tight hold on Manassas and Winchester.

However - there were some stacks out in Missouri that were left out in winter weather with no apparent objectives, so it obviously does happen under certain circumstances.

I have sent save files and specific items to look at to Pocus and am sure he will check it ASAP. Hopefully you guys are doing the same? Otherwise not much chance of a fix....

And I don't want to give away any spoilers, but Athena is at least attempting some amphib invasions... not always working, but enough to keep me defending places I did not have to before.

Edit: By "west" I meant TN & KY. Sorry, old Victory Games TCW player, Missouri is the "trans-miss"

[Pocus]

Thanks all for your input!

Actually for now I have only Mike's save. I don't have save of the AI sitting in winter, which is bad.
As you can guess, there are algorithms and code about what to do in winter. So either the constraints are not hard enough and the AI thinks she can operate much in winter, or there is a bug. Either case, I need situations where the decision-making of the AI in winter is bad for you. I can analyze that I understand the why, and then fix.

[StatboyVT]

I have not seen this suicidal AI winter behavior in my current 1.10a game in either VA or the west. (I've only played one, no restarts for me.) In fact in VA the northern army pulled all the way back to Washington in late December/January. Even though I thought she had a very tight hold on Manassas and Winchester.

However - there were some stacks out in Missouri that were left out in winter weather with no apparent objectives, so it obviously does happen under certain circumstances.

I have sent save files and specific items to look at to Pocus and am sure he will check it ASAP. Hopefully you guys are doing the same? Otherwise not much chance of a fix....

And I don't want to give away any spoilers, but Athena is at least attempting some amphib invasions... not always working, but enough to keep me defending places I did not have to before.

Edit: By "west" I meant TN & KY. Sorry, old Victory Games TCW player, Missouri is the "trans-miss"

It was my mistake. I was going to test a clean version (no mods), and I thought I was. But I still had the Leader Mod installed. I played almost a year as the CSA AI last night, and it played much, much better. No stupidity in the winter. They took Fredericksburg, and stayed there all Winter. Now my only complaint is the Union doesn't seem to be building much in the West, but for now, that's minor.

Sorry about the confusion.

When I get home tonight I'll confirm that I was playing 1.10a (I'm at work now). I've got several different versions of AACW on my computer, and I got confused. But I know the version I played last night was not modded. I just want to check when I get home to make sure it wasn't 1.09e, or something like that.

If it does turn out to be 1.10, then it seems to me that the mixture of the mods with 1.10 is messing things up? Because craziness was definitely happening when I was playing 1.10 with the mods. Both Clovis' mod and the leader mod. I'll try to confirm everything tonight.

[Turbo823]

I've been playing my AAR on hard with 1.10 and I seen some decent play in the winter. Its true that Athena has been caught in the snow, but I've noticed that that Athena as the union moved out during a "green" turn with no snow in the local area then got caught in the snow.

I think it is important to point that out as Athena may already be 'respecting' the snow but is mistakening a break in the snow as an opportunity to campaign.

[StatboyVT]

I've resolved my difficulties from before. It seems that the mix of the mods and 1.10 mess things up. I installed a clean version of 1.10a last night, and it's playing fine. Even the Confederate A.I. is behaving in the East, no crazy invasions of the North.

So as before, my main complaint is the Western theatre. The South still doesn't form armies when I play as the North. In fact, I rarely even see two divisions under the command of one leader. In the game I started last night, it's May of '62 and the South never even formed an army in the west. The most troops they massed in one place was about 12,000 under Polk, which went after Louisville. AS Johnston is out there, but with no HQ. He took one brigade and 3 supplies to the most Southeast town in Ohio, and I sent a division over and slaughtered them and took all the supplies. There was no resistance for Island #10 and Ft. Donelson. After I took them (1 turn each, both taken by Grant), I sent Grant to Nashville and he took it and it's very small garrison.

By the end of February, I had taken all three strongholds in Northern Tennessee. That's historically accurate, except for the fact that the South actually tried to defend them in real life. It's now May of '62, and I've got Grant on his way to Chattanooga. Doesn't seem to be anybody there. He'll be in Atlanta by the end of the year, while my army in Western Tennesee will move down the Mississippi. I'll probably have Vicksburg a year earlier than what was historical, and Atlanta 2 years before. Mostly because the South won't consolidate any forces in the West. My armies and divisions are just moving around crushing brigades and small divisions. No challenge at all in the West.

In the East, that's another story. Army of the Potomac took Manassas, and began to move towards Winchester to take on Joe Johnston's army. McClellan and his four corps moved extremely slowly, taking them a full month (very accurate, IMO). In the turn where they finally arrived, Johnston took off and marched all the way to Washington in one turn, and now has it under siege. Nice! McClellan getting outmaneuvered, as usual. Love it!

[barkhorn45]

i did'nt save it and did'nt think about it till i read here about suicidal ai in the game i'm playing with 1.10a a cavalry unit of app.1990 men[thats how many were eventualy dest.]somehow slipped around the aotp at the rappahonack and attacked wash!1990 leaderless men against w. scott and 16,840 men and they scored a union defeat in the first battle and a stalemate in the second and were finally destroyed in the last battle.sound a little on the suicidal side does'nt it BANZAIIII!

[Clovis]

Even if I reduced CSA AI aggressiveness in my mod ( and so a large part of the AI odd behaviour was coming from my changes) it remains CSA AI likes a little too much deep cavalry raids, and seems to prefer sending a whole army against a small stack rather than block the path of an equally and neighbouring large force. But that oddities could rather be solved by rule changes for raid and the raise of the Athena's strategic thinking.

Aside, AI is really better in 1.10a.

And I've let in my mod the events giving free Army HQ units to some AI leaders...

[Big Muddy]

Any idea when the next patch will be available.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Turbo823]

the winter thing is really an issue I have been through as well. It should be hardcoded that in Winter the Armies go back to the nearest supplied enough structure and lay there prioritarely VP locations so that they can defend them.

I had a very good beginning of the Game wiht the Union AI under 1.10 (with the leader mod) : It attacked me in Virginia, when for Hapers Ferry in 1861 while Beauregard was in Manassas and I did not dare move him : result it crushed Johnson who retreated to Manassas to Regroup : Then it attacked Manassas with overwhelming force and I had to fall back behind the Rappahanock.

It attacked in winter in Fredericksburg and I was so Weak that it drove me out an I had to retreat back to Richmond. It kept pressuring me during the winter, which must have hurt its cohesion, but I was so battered i just manage to hold my own around Richmond by Achieving quit historical results (I would win losing 9 000 and them 12 000, etc..)

Then Mcclellan did something stupid... in late january instead of Falling back to Fredericksburg as his assault on the capital failed he followed through to Petersburg and NC... I was quite happy to let him rampage there, regrouped and organised another army with Lee to chase him around and defeat him and eventually destroying him by april...

Now i am going to take it slowly back to Manassas, just for the sake of the game, But I am almost sure I could march straight to Washington and crush the AI before it has reorganised an army...

My point here is that : 1/ Recklessnes + winter is a deadly combination for the AI. You should almost have 2 Ai files, one for the fighting season and one for December to March in which it stays put around cities and depots and VPS...

How many supply units are in the AI forces that are outside?

I've noticed that the AI moves out in the winter usually with supply units then falls back when the supply is depleted. In my AAR game versus Athena, she never moved a force out of a settlement in the winter unless she had a supply unit.

Another thing I noticed is that Athena often moves out when there is a warm snap (green) in the winter only to get caught the following turn when it turns to snow (white).

Coding Athena to always stay in settlements during winter is a really bad idea. Think of Washington crossing the delaware and defeating the Hessians in the dead of winter. I think all that is required is some behavior tweaking otherwise her play is not that bad.

[GShock]

Given the rate of supply wagons the Union AI builds, and since they shelter other units from weather damage, i think the best solution would be to devise a sort of blitzkrieg strategy for AI during winter periods. If this is possible then AI would attack in quick strikes or just camp in friendly settlements. The quick attack would be sheltered by supply units.

[Clovis]

How many supply units are in the AI forces that are outside?

I've noticed that the AI moves out in the winter usually with supply units then falls back when the supply is depleted. In my AAR game versus Athena, she never moved a force out of a settlement in the winter unless she had a supply unit.

Another thing I noticed is that Athena often moves out when there is a warm snap (green) in the winter only to get caught the following turn when it turns to snow (white).

Coding Athena to always stay in settlements during winter is a really bad idea. Think of Washington crossing the delaware and defeating the Hessians in the dead of winter. I think all that is required is some behavior tweaking otherwise her play is not that bad.

Or Grant seizing Donelson in feb 62

[berto]

Or Grant seizing Donelson in feb 62

Or Bragg & Rosecrans at Murfreesboro (Stones River) circa New Years Day 1863. Or Burnside & Lee at Fredericksburg December 1862.

[Brochgale]

Anybody else had snow in Texas in early June? Still rubbing my eyes at that one but then I know nothing about Texas weather?

[berto]

We saw weather anomalies like that when testing the 1.10 beta, but supposedly they were resolved.