Creating divisions feature - ruining the game for me

[Turbo823]

I bought this game based on rave reviews but I wish I hadn't. I loved Birth of America and I am really trying to like this game but the create division feature has me really frustrated and I am at the point of using it as a coaster.

The create divisions 'feature' is the worst part of AACW for me. I've read the tutorial, the manual, even the WIKI and I just can't understand why the game sometimes lets you create a division and other times not.

1) The mysterious 'greyed out' enable division command
I've successfully created divisions so I understand how it works. But I do not understand why it doesn't work many times. Sometimes you have a 1 star general sitting there for a full turn, plenty of conscripts, money, war supplies. Its early July on the April campaign so I am not at the division sealing. So why is the enable division command greyed out? No feedback from the tooltips.

2) Division command enabled button lit, recombination button lit, but nothing gets added? Here the game enables a division but refuses to let you add any units. When this happens it won't let me add even 1 unit. Geez. Now, the units haven't moved, aren't padlocked and the recombination button is lit up. Why won't it create the damn force? No feedback from the tool tips.

The create corps feature is intuitive and easy. Its one button, not 2 buttons. Best of all, it has a symbol that tells you in the tabs thats its a corp. The division has no symbol and is labelled the same as if it were a non division.

I've tried reasoning with the game, said 'open sesame' standing on 1 foot, begged and pleaded, and finally exited the game after yelling. The cdrom is sitting on the shelf in the box gathering dust where it is safe right now from my wrath.

[lenny]

1) The tool-tip lists several reasons why the "enable divisional command" button is greyed out. Usually, this is due to the selected general being inactive. Also, especially at the beginning of the campain, it can be due to insufficient resources available.

2) Only time I am not able to add units to a division if adding that brigade would bring the dision above the maximum of allowed elements. Also, you cannot add a brigade to a division if that brigade is already assigned to a general (if I am not mistaken).

[Primasprit]

Hi Turbo!

If you post a saved game and point me to the units in question I will take a look at it.

Cheers
Norbert

[MarkCSA]

1) The tool-tip lists several reasons why the "enable divisional command" button is greyed out. Usually, this is due to the selected general being inactive. Also, especially at the beginning of the campain, it can be due to insufficient resources available.

2) Only time I am not able to add units to a division if adding that brigade would bring the dision above the maximum of allowed elements. Also, you cannot add a brigade to a division if that brigade is already assigned to a general (if I am not mistaken).

Yup, not activated or lack of resources is usually the problem.

Also, some 1 star guys arrive already attached 'in charge' of a (larger) brigade, you will need to detach them first and *then* chuck them (the brigade and everything else you want to add) in a division. Note the difference between a guy commanding a brigade vs. a guy commanding a division. Commanding Brigade = Smaller Icon like infantry with a star in the middle. Commanding Division = Big Infantry I con with 2 X's over it.

[GShock]

Don't forget to check the 101 !!!

One of the most common issues with creating divisions is the SIZE of the division. You are limited to X number of elements within and thus, don't just look at the UNITS but also to the unit contents (that are, as you have understood, the elements)

In Naples we say: You wanted the bycicle? Now ride it!

[Banks6060]

Creating divisions is probably one of the first hurdles you must get over to really enjoy the game so I sympathize with you man.

As mentioned....leaders must be active

They must be ALONE....(i.e. drag them to a spot where they are by themselves if you have to)

You must have enough $, troops and WS.

You can't have any more than 18 elements in any division

You can't add a LOCKED unit to a division....and when you're in a stack with EVEN ONE locked unit, you won't be able to create a division.



To be frank....plan your reinforcement recruitment ahead...call up your brigades with the idea that' you'll clump them into divisions once they're ready....

for instance....

Buy 5 rebel brigades

a few with inf and arty

one with just inf.

one with inf. and Sharps

[arsan]

They must be ALONE....(i.e. drag them to a spot where they are by themselves if you have to)

I don't think this is really needed.
Maybe just if there is some locked unit that "locks" the stack but generally its not needed.
Of course it does not harm to do it either

[GrudgeBringer]

Arson...

I have had to take a Commander (say Bee) OUT of the stack take his troops away and THEN the Division light will light up (not just with Bee just using him as an example). I Play CSA so I can't answer for the Union tho I would guess it works the same.

Also I didn't think not having the resources would stop you from CREATING the division....It would just not have them work at full strength and you will get a message the next turn in the events area.

But I agree with the new fella....Divisions about drove me NUTS (and sometimes STILL do) when I first got this game.

[Mosby]

I've had awful luck with Bee, as well as some of the gens. in that same stack with him. In fact, I don't think I've ever had the option to give him troops save his own brigade. I haven't tried taking him away from everything, so maybe that'll finally get him going.

As for ruining the game? That may be a tad bit of a stretch, but once you get over that, there's a great game waiting for you.

[Southerner]

The create divisions 'feature' is the worst part of AACW for me. I've read the tutorial, the manual, even the WIKI and I just can't understand why the game sometimes lets you create a division and other times not.

I posted similar sentiments, using almost that same language, when I first tried my hand at AACW.

Playing a couple of days plus reading a few posts here, then suddenly, everything fell into place as a light went off.

It can seem impossible at the start but it really isn't.

[Banks6060]

trust us Turbo...if you're able to get the organization down...and learn from there....this game is one of a kind. I've been gaming for most of my life and have never found a game in this era that was worth a damn....I'm even picky enough to say that the recent one "Forged Freedom" sucked.

This game is great....you'll discover it soon enough. And if you don't....that's ok too

[AndrewKurtz]

trust us Turbo...if you're able to get the organization down...and learn from there....this game is one of a kind. I've been gaming for most of my life and have never found a game in this era that was worth a damn....I'm even picky enough to say that the recent one "Forged Freedom" sucked.

This game is great....you'll discover it soon enough. And if you don't....that's ok too

I agree. If it helps, I typically see three reasons I cannot create divisions:

1. Obviously, if the leader is not activated.
2. Very much NOT obvious, if there is a static, locked or fixed unit in the selected units. Locked is obvious with the "lock icon", but fixed and static require that you look at each.
3. Also not very obvious, you might think you have enough resources, but many displays show what your resources will be during the turn. What matters for the button to be active is how many resources do you have during the orders phase.

Hang in there. Best game I've ever played.

[Turbo823]

Thanks for the feedback fellows. I've gone back into the fray and am understanding better how it works although there are still some strange situations that defy explanation.

This 'feature' is not the least bit intuitive and is in my opinion a barrier for new users to overcome. I am a hardcore wargamer who picked up BOA easily and until this game never had a feature so total confound me.

The division creation process has too many steps and a simple one button solution with some better tooltips will make this feature a lot less painless.

[soloswolf]

See: Grudgebringer's first 50 or so posts... If we can win him over, we'll get you too!

[Coffee Sergeant]

There is one additional problem you may encounter when forming divisions.

If you didn't have enough to pay the costs for divisions you formed in the previous turn, you won't be able to form ANY divisions in the current turn, even if you have the assets to form them and the generals are active.

And don't believe the balance sheet either. Give yourself ample wiggle room should the estimated balance be off. For example, if you are forming 2 divisions, give yourself a bit more than just $20k, 2 conscripts and 10 war supplies remaining on the balance sheet.

[arsan]

There is one additional problem you may encounter when forming divisions.

If you didn't have enough to pay the costs for divisions you formed in the previous turn, you won't be able to form ANY divisions in the current turn, even if you have the assets to form them and the generals are active.

And don't believe the balance sheet either. Give yourself ample wiggle room should the estimated balance be off. For example, if you are forming 2 divisions, give yourself a bit more than just $20k, 2 conscripts and 10 war supplies remaining on the balance sheet.

You are right about this "quirk"... but it will be fixed/changed on the next patch!!
Pocus has already make the change in the current beta pacth and hopefully it will work all right and will be added in the next official change.
That way, divisions will be paid for and accounted on the balance sheet just the same that any other game expenses (units, replacements...) so you will be able to pay for divisions with the "next turn" incomes.
No need the mantain a "on hand" reserve of money/WS/conscripst just for divisions.
Regards!

[rwenstrup]

I agree with the thought here...I own all AGEODs games...and love them, but...
I don't like the division formulation concept and wish it was a selectable option and...
I don't like the purchasing and wish you could have fixed reinforcements as an option.

Both of these features detract significantly from the fun of the game for me. Don't take me wrong though...this is a great game...but these are not well done areas in the game.

[Jabberwock]

And don't believe the balance sheet either. Give yourself ample wiggle room should the estimated balance be off. For example, if you are forming 2 divisions, give yourself a bit more than just $20k, 2 conscripts and 10 war supplies remaining on the balance sheet.

I believe this cost overrun is caused by repairing railroads on the same turn that the divisions are formed. I haven't been able to find or determine what the exact cost of RR repair is, but I'll keep trying, even if division costs are accounted for as they are created.

[AndrewKurtz]

I agree with the thought here...I own all AGEODs games...and love them, but...
I don't like the division formulation concept and wish it was a selectable option and...
I don't like the purchasing and wish you could have fixed reinforcements as an option.

Both of these features detract significantly from the fun of the game for me. Don't take me wrong though...this is a great game...but these are not well done areas in the game.

Funny thing is, of all the AGEOD games, I prefer the way purchasing.reinforcements/replacements are handled in AACW and I also greatly prefer the way divisions are handled now over the old division HQs.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Banks6060]

Agreed 100%. Newcomers always complain about these features, yet after they play it awhile thay almost universally change their minds.

Amen....I finally "converted" when I got it figured out

[soundoff]

Agreed 100%. Newcomers always complain about these features, yet after they play it awhile thay almost universally change their minds.

I'm not sure that they do Gray Players get used to them but I really do suspect that AGEOD must have lost more than the odd customer because of them.

However good the game is...and it is good....the division creation is at best unfriendly and at worst off putting.

Regards

[AndrewKurtz]

The division creation is at best unfriendly and at worst off putting.

It really is not hard, but I think the main issue is it is not well documented. The process of creating one is really simple. Pick an active leader, hit a button, shift-click some units, click another button.

Tricks as we've discussed before that stop the create division button from being active are:

1. Leader has to be active
2. Must have resources at the beginning of the turn. I believe this is changing in the next patch where you need to be projected to have them in the next turn (as with other building)
3. Must not have had some divisions to not fully completed in the previous turn (you can spot this in the log)
4. No static or fixed units.

I tend to doubt the process is tricking anyone. Instead, I'm guessing it is figuring out why the button is not active. If the tooltip gave the EXACT reason, not possible causes, I believe it would go a long way to helping newcomers understand.

[barkhorn45]

i have had situations were the make div. is lite but hitting it does nothing

[AndrewKurtz]

i have had situations were the make div. is lite but hitting it does nothing

I've had the same thing. Every time there is a fixed or static (not locked) unit in the list of units I have selected.

[soundoff]

It really is not hard, but I think the main issue is it is not well documented. The process of creating one is really simple. Pick an active leader, hit a button, shift-click some units, click another button.

Its not about it being hard on that I'd agree but I still contend its not friendly. To your list of reasons why you cant form a division you should add - Having reached the division number cap.

After creating the division its then making sure you get best 18 elements and of the correct mix. Even when you ensure you have the optimum 4 arty pieces for example there is the problem of making sure they are say decent rather than 6lb pop guns that arrive with most composite units.

So yes its not hard to create a division just so long as you are aware of all the provisos that might stop you but even then you might end up creating a division that really is not worth diddly.

Regards

[GShock]

The real deal with many things newcomers have problems at grasping is to realize the tooltip cannot describe everything or it would be huge.

100% assured, if the manual was up to date and keeping on par with the patching process no newcomer would have any problem at understanding how DIVs work.

Of course this also means constantly reading the updated manual...essentially, this is what these forums do : keeping the players up to date.

[soloswolf]

So yes its not hard to create a division just so long as you are aware of all the provisos that might stop you but even then you might end up creating a division that really is not worth diddly.

That's a tad strong... Certainly the range is an important factor. And the difference in power a slightly less significant one, but it doesn't make it worthless. Plus, the cannons will upgrade, so it really is not an issue at all.

[richfed]

Funny thing is, of all the AGEOD games, I prefer the way purchasing.reinforcements/replacements are handled in AACW and I also greatly prefer the way divisions are handled now over the old division HQs.

Me, too! In fact, I'm all for some sort of Corps HQ ... for consistency.

[AndrewKurtz]

Me, too! In fact, I'm all for some sort of Corps HQ ... for consistency.

Just to make sure we are saying the same things, I do _not_ like the old Division HQs. I like the way it is done now, which is more consistents with the Corps. I personally would prefer to see the Army HQ changed to the way Divisions and Corps are now handled for consistency.

But that's just one man's opinion.