Assign brigade to general problem

[GlobalExplorer]

I got used to build Corps consisting of Divisions and Brigades, and not entirely from Divisions as I did when I was still unexperienced. The advantage is that Brigades need only 2-3 command points and can operate independently. So as long as a corps has at least one free Brigade I can always detach them when the corps rests and take an additional objective, and do so without command penalty.

But I have a problem understanding why it is sometimes not possible to assign a Brigade directly under a commander.

For instance I found that I can merge the infantry unit which has 2 Regiments and 1 Sharpshooters with 1 Artillery unit. The resulting Brigade has a strength of ~105, but requires only 2 command points, making this the ideal independent Brigade for a 1 star general. The problem is just that now can not assign them directly to the commander anymore (the plus sign will not appear). This means I could still use them as Brigade, but it will be hard to manage the icons.

So it seems a general can never directly command a unit that was merged. Is this intended and what is the logic behind this?

This might sound silly but having my forces is important and why not have this feature available when it is already there?

[Rafiki]

AFAIK, you should always be able to assign a general to a brigade, but perhaps there are some brigades that don't have room for it?

Do you perhaps have a screenshot of these formations?

[GlobalExplorer]

There are many brigades which cannot be put under a general (all 'Volunteer' formations, all Militias, all formations which where created by merging, like Zouaves + Artillery, 2 x Militia, Militia + Artillery, etc).

Playing around with Zouaves I even got to the point where sometimes the plus would show up depending on some strange order in which I select the units, and sometimes there is a plus but when I click it nothing happens. This for instance happens when you try to merge Infantry/Infantry/Sharpshooter with Horse Artillery.

It's hard to bring up a screenshot of a button not working but maybe I can create some with the concerned units.

Patch 1.09

[Rafiki]

OK, I imagine that it is part of the unit definitions which units can have leaders attached to them; will havre to look into it to find out.

[arsan]

There are many brigades which cannot be put under a general (all 'Volunteer' formations, all Militias, all formations which where created by merging, like Zouaves + Artillery, 2 x Militia, Militia + Artillery, etc).

Playing around with Zouaves I even got to the point where sometimes the plus would show up depending on some strange order in which I select the units, and sometimes there is a plus but when I click it nothing happens. This for instance happens when you try to merge Infantry/Infantry/Sharpshooter with Horse Artillery.

It's hard to bring up a screenshot of a button not working but maybe I can create some with the concerned units.

Patch 1.09

It seems you have tried every posible combination!!
I think the problem its not that you can't attach a leader to this combinations... its that this kind of merges are not supposed to be allowed (except the well known and much used milita+militia)...
Regards

[Jabberwock]

I can confirm GlobalExplorer's observations regarding the button lighting up but not working occasionally. I don't recall the exact circumstances.

Units have a predefined number of 'element slots' or 'unit slots'. Slots can be defined as only accepting a particular type of unit.

Leaders appear to have one slot that only accepts regular units, although those units can contain several elements.

Zouaves have two slots, one of which is apparently defined as artillery-only. A zouve (light infantry) apparently is not a regular, so so there isn't a way to brigade a zouave with a leader, or a leader with a zouave. I was not aware of being unable to attach a leader to any type of merged unit.

A blockade squadron appears to have 2 heavy warship slots and eight light warship slots. I believe (not certain) you can put a light warship in a heavy warship slot, and there are three different kinds of blue-water light warships, so there are numerous ways to configure a blockade squadron. (I haven't tested with ironclads or armored frigates to check that they can fit into the blockade squadron heavy slots, I've always filled those with steam frigates.)

A militia or volunteer unit has two slots, which can only hold militia or volunteers. So, it can be brigaded with another militia, but no other combination is possible outside of a division.

There several kinds of pre-defined brigades, with different slots available. This is why you sometimes only see one-way combinations.

Anyone exploring this area further, please post your findings.

[W.Barksdale]

I believe that you can merge a single militia regiment with those brigades of two militia and the light infantry that you receive near the start.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Jabberwock]

The possible combinations are defined in the Units39a file, and refers back to model types defined in the Models41a file of the DB. I will try to post more info as soon as I get it figured out.

[Jabberwock]

I was wrong about Leader slots. Leaders have one slot ... for the leader unit.
Regular brigades and divisions have a slot that can hold a leader.

[Jabberwock]

From v1.09 DB files

USA units:

1. With the exception of Raider cavalry (see #11), only line infantry (including elites and mounted infantry) and cavalry units can be led outside of a division. However, US regular army units cannot be led.

2. The inf/conscript/cav brigades creatable in IL, IN, MO, WI, & KY can have one infantry added.

3. The inf/conscript/art brigades creatable in NJ can have one infantry added.

4. The inf/inf/sharpshooter brigades creatable in PA appear to be overloaded. They are defined as having only one slot for infantry. If they lose one infantry element, it cannot be replaced.

5. A blockade flotilla can contain 2 heavy warships and 8 light warships. I know from experience that brigs, although classified as raider ships, can go in the light warship slots. Armored frigates, steam frigates, monitors, and river ironclads all qualify as heavy warships. It would just be silly to restrict a flotilla to coastal waters by using monitors, especially silly using slow ironclads.

6. The cav/conscript cav/horse artillery brigades from NY and PA can have one cavalry added.

7. Marines can be combined with another marine or elite unit, such as the Bull Run or Union brigades !!!

8. Sailors can be combined with a single line regiment or another sailor.

9. Volunteers, State Militia, and Yankees all belong to the same family, and can be combined into double units. Just be careful about combining with static units. There are some volunteer and militia units that cannot be combined.

10. Partisans and Jayhawks can be combined with another raider unit.

11. Raider cavalry can be combined with another cavalry unit. They can also be led.

12. Transport squadrons can be combined into 4-ship units.

13. Volunteer brigades (vol/vol/lt. inf) can have one militia (any type) added.

14. The only difference between colored volunteers and colored militia is that colored militia can never upgrade. Their combat abilities are the same. (They use the same model).

15. Mounted infantry (Lightning and Lightning Mule Brigades) have different combat characteristics than other infantry, but they do still use the Heavy Foot movement rate.

16. Pioneer regiments (Merchant, Railway, and Pioneer Brigades) can fight in addition to being engineers. They cannot be replaced by an engineer unit if destroyed. They can be replaced by a service unit (signal, medical, balloon). The Railway brigade contains an additional engineer regiment that can only be replaced by a service unit. The Pioneer Brigade's 6-lb can be replaced with a 10-lb, 12-lb, 20-lb, or Rodman if it is destroyed.

17. The Excelsior, Hooker's Old Guard, and Horn Brigades each contain a 6-lb that can be replaced with a 10-lb , 12-lb, 20-lb, or Rodman if it is destroyed.

18. The 6-lb/12-lb Artillery Brigades from NY,PA,OH, & IL can have their 6-lb replaced with a 10-lb, 12-lb, 20-lb, or Rodman if it is destroyed.

19. It may be possible to put a 6-lb back into these these units or replace it with a gatling (need to test).

CSA units:

1. Transports cannot be combined into 4-ship squadrons.

2. Volunteer brigades (vol/vol/lt. inf) cannot have an extra militia unit added.

3. Volunteers, State Militia, and Rebels can be combined into double units. There are some units that cannot be combined.

4. Bushwackers and Partisans can be combined with another raider unit.

5. The Orphan Brigade can have a marine or single elite regiment added. The 6-lb can be replaced with a 10-lb, 12-lb or 20-lb if destroyed.

6. The Tigers Brigade can have its zoauve replaced by a marine or single elite regiment if it is destroyed.

7. The Maryland line brigade 6-lb can be replaced with a 10-lb, 12-lb or 20-lb if destroyed.

8. With the exception of the aforementioned units, CSA Marines cannot combine with another unit outside of a division.

[Jones76]

yikes....

[Jabberwock]

None of that stuff is "need-to-know" to play the game. Pocus or a modder might find some of the more obscure items helpful.

Some of it, like the artillery units being destroyed while leaving the rest of a brigade intact, will not happen to anyone in the foreseable future. I don't think I have ever seen a colored militia unit.

The Confederate section could be summed up as: "You can create double militia, and stick a marine in the Orphan Brigade."

I just included all of it because that's what I saw in the DB.

[Rafiki]

Nice work, Jabberwock. As you say, this is hardly something a regular player needs to know by heart, but it's a good overview to have

[Coregonas]

There are many brigades which cannot be put under a general (all 'Volunteer' formations, all Militias, all formations which where created by merging, like Zouaves + Artillery, 2 x Militia, Militia + Artillery, etc).

Playing around with Zouaves I even got to the point where sometimes the plus would show up depending on some strange order in which I select the units, and sometimes there is a plus but when I click it nothing happens. This for instance happens when you try to merge Infantry/Infantry/Sharpshooter with Horse Artillery.

It's hard to bring up a screenshot of a button not working but maybe I can create some with the concerned units.

Patch 1.09

Wow! I never tried these combos. Tx you have explored new posibilities for me!

never

[Jones76]

Off the subject a little, but quick question...

Im experimenting in the tutorial and I have a the Army of Ohio with a corps. In this corps I have (3) divisions. What I was trying to do was to keep the Corps 2* general back one region and have each division move forward into (3) different regions as a line of defense. Im now noticing that each division is suffering from a 10% penalty.

Does this mean that for a division to be in the "chain of command", it must be in the corps stack? Thanks.

[DaveFrommer]

Off the subject a little, but quick question...

Im experimenting in the tutorial and I have a the Army of Ohio with a corps. In this corps I have (3) divisions. What I was trying to do was to keep the Corps 2* general back one region and have each division move forward into (3) different regions as a line of defense. Im now noticing that each division is suffering from a 10% penalty.

Does this mean that for a division to be in the "chain of command", it must be in the corps stack? Thanks.

Yes, they have to be stacked with the Corps commander to be in the corps and not suffer penalties.

[Jabberwock]

A * division commander has 2CP. A division requires 4 CP to command. -2CP * 5% = 10% penalty. If you add an additional * with no troops to each division stack, he will provide the other 2 CP. If the extra * is higher seniority than the division commander, he will become the stack commander, and needs good ratings. If he is lower seniority, his ratings don't matter. This is one of the best uses for low seniority *s with poor ratings.

You have the right idea, now apply it at a different level. Say you have an army with 3 corps. The army stays back while the corps advance into three adjacent regions. Because of the marching to the sound of guns ability, your corps are mutually supporting with with the army and each other (except for the two on the flanks).

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Jones76]

You have the right idea, now apply it at a different level. Say you have an army with 3 corps. The army stays back while the corps advance into three adjacent regions. Because of the marching to the sound of guns ability, your corps are mutually supporting with with the army and each other (except for the two on the flanks).

I see. Of course Im noticing I don't have many 2* generals, so the number of corps is very limited, at least at the begining. Like you said however, there is a good use for all those 1* generals that are in great abundance.

Another option would be to have militia as the advanced defense along a particular line and have corps as quick reaction forces behind that to attack in strength before the enemy can dig in after taking a region. Which I guess is more or less how they may have done it back in that erea. I really gotta get out of the WWII mindset.

Also, does not take long to figure out it is pointless to guard a whole lot of "nothing".....especially out West.

[Jabberwock]

Your "exception" means the two corps on the flanks cannot directly support each other, but can support the center corp and army, correct?

correct.

[Jabberwock]

Another option would be to have militia as the advanced defense along a particular line and have corps as quick reaction forces behind that to attack in strength before the enemy can dig in after taking a region. Which I guess is more or less how they may have done it back in that erea.

They even had a special word for those advanced defense units - "vedettes". They would usually set up in an extended line of platoons or half-companies. (With the hope that at least one man could escape to warn the main force?) Vedettes weren't historically used at a range that would extend to inter-regional distances, but it is the same general idea ... expendable troops used as a trip-wire.

[GlobalExplorer]

Save the game right at the spot where it doesn't work, then zip up the three files associated with it, (if you know where to find them) and attach them to a post here in this thread. We can then fire up the game load it to that point and observe the behavior directly.

You can find the 3 files associated with that turn in the .../ACW/Saves folder usually under the name you saved the game under.

Regards.

I have done as you told and attached test data:

http://www.christian-wendt.org/AACW/brigade_test.zip

Go to New Orleans where I have set up all you need to reproduce the problems:

There are three infantry brigades of the same type (Inf/Inf/Sharpshooter):
- Rodes Bde
- Wilcox Bde
- Phifers Bde

1.) I have put them already into stacks with a general and an artillery unit. Combine Wilcox or Phifers Bde with the 6pdr and 12pdr artillery in their stacks - after that they can not be assigned anymore to a general.

2.) Go to C.Winders stack and try to merge:
a) the Rodes Brigade with Horse Artillery
b) the Zouaves in the same stack with Horse Artillery
It will not work even though there is a plus sign for these combinations!!

2.) seems to be a bug / 1.) is annoying and I am not sure if it is intended!

Thanks!

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[GlobalExplorer]

Thanks a lot GL.

Just in case Pocus should look into the code - maybe you could make up your mind why a lot of formations can not be lead (volunteers, militia). I am just still not sure if it is intended or rather a quirk of the engine.

[Pocus]

I'll check that, thanks GlobalExplorer et al.

[Bertram]

I got a comparable bug, or a slightly different arrearance from the same bug (I think).

At turn 3-5 as Union I build a division in Harpers Ferry under a general, and I added a second general to avoid penalties.

I send in some more troops, and added them to the division. No problem. But I accidentily added the Harpers Ferry militia. It is locked, so it locked the division. I wanted it out, so I disbanded the diviion. Started to add units, but could not fit all the units in again. Disbanded the division, as I thought some units might not combine. Could fit even less units in... To make a long story short: after disbanding and rebuilding the division a few times (I wanted to know what units would be able to go together) the maximum number of units that I could add to the general was down to one, no matter what the first unit added was, and no matter what kind of additional unit I tried to add....


Bertram

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Jabberwock]

Hello Bertram -
What version? What general?

[Pocus]

Hello,

Glitch fixed, thanks for your report GlobalExplorer.

I have done as you told and attached test data:

http://www.christian-wendt.org/AACW/brigade_test.zip

Go to New Orleans where I have set up all you need to reproduce the problems:

There are three infantry brigades of the same type (Inf/Inf/Sharpshooter):
- Rodes Bde
- Wilcox Bde
- Phifers Bde

1.) I have put them already into stacks with a general and an artillery unit. Combine Wilcox or Phifers Bde with the 6pdr and 12pdr artillery in their stacks - after that they can not be assigned anymore to a general.

2.) Go to C.Winders stack and try to merge:
a) the Rodes Brigade with Horse Artillery
b) the Zouaves in the same stack with Horse Artillery
It will not work even though there is a plus sign for these combinations!!

2.) seems to be a bug / 1.) is annoying and I am not sure if it is intended!

Thanks!